Why can't I carry a gun?!?!?

I would suggest martial arts if you are in decent shape. It's one of the best forms of exercise and instills great mental and physical discipline. It does take time and commitment just like any other exercise routine but the rewards are huge. After training for few years you wouldn't have a problem fighting three (untrained) men.

I would suggest starting with Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, or Karate. After you have one of those down you can move on to Kung Fu. Once you are competent in Kung Fu, the situation you described would be child's play. Krav Maga may appeal to you more than the traditional martial arts, it's designed around self defense and it trains you to respond to life endangering encounters.

Firearms are good and all but the laws in this country make it extremely difficult to arm yourself. Train your mind and body, the government can't confiscate those.

You were lucky, that's for sure.
I was jumped once in Chicago, by 6 guys.
Thank GOD, I had a suburban full of my MMA buddies with.

However, you CAN carry a gun, in ANY state where a CCW license is obtainable.
You MUST have one to carry a gun, conceled or not.
Illinois does not allow them, so therefore I cannot carry one, but most states do.

For you, if you cannot get a gun or CCW license where you live, a taser would be a smart choice.
Pepper sprays to most people under the influence are laughable... I know, I was maced by the cops twice, and it did nothing but make me mad. (long story)

Martial arts lessons are not going to help you. Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc will not help you survive a knife attack in real life, you'll be freaked out.
Unless you practice MMA, and have lightning quick hands... knifes are nothing to # with.
Even a gun wont help if your within 22ft of a knife weilding assailant.

So, my advice, carry a knife yourself, taser or a gun, and learn to use them well.

Never been in an situation like this myself, and hope i never will be!

If the last poster wants to attack me with a knife 22 ft away and let me have a gun..im game?

Carrying any weapon just increases the chances it will be used agaisnt you, i remember getting a demonstration back in school about how give yourself the best chance agaisnt a knife attacker. Not sure how it would work in a real life scenario but she also demonstrated how easy it is to get stabbed by your own knife.

Telling him that you will call the police just gives him more reason to kill you lol, especially as it takes like 3 minutes for the feds to show up and it only takes 3 seconds for the guy to knife you.

Can I ask what happened when your friend showed up? Did the guys just run off when they saw him or what? And was your friend carrying a weapon?

Originally posted by hikix
This topic is such a double-edged sword. There are pros and cons to carrying a gun, and with the strict laws in NY the cons most likely outweigh the pros. Imagine if i didnt have a permit and shot him.. ill prolly be sitting in prison for 10 years!

In my opinion, a 10 year stretch is still infinitely better then being dead.

True, in New York they take these things very seriously, but you'd probably get more for having the gun then you would for using the gun. I don't think a jury in the country would convict a man for shooting down a machete wielding attacker. There would be no argument over the fact that you had an illegal weapon, however, so they would almost have to convict you on a Sullivan Act violation, probably a year or two at most for a generally law-abiding fella.

Either way, the legal system would have done nothing to save your butt in the event of an attack. It most likely would have been over long before a cop showed up, leaving it up to you to protect yourself.

It's always better to wake up tomorrow, even if you're waking up to a day in court or jail. Wouldn't you agree?

Before we had the police state that we currently live or guns, anyone with any sort of means above serfdom carried a belt knife and a 4'-5' rod of staff. I' doubt seriously if 3 drunks, all with machete's, back then would have attempted to take on armed opponent. I've got a friend who is a decent guy who ran afowl of the law and was convicted of a felony. He can no longer legally own a firearm but he's very practical man. He plays softball so he always carries an aluminum softball bat and glove with him. Our local sheriff's deputies know him by reputation and never molest him.

I know very few men who actually can fight with a machete. It's fine for hacking at unarmed opponents but lousy for individual combat. A suba stick(wooden samurai sword) is a much more useful weapon in a street fight. A walking cane with a brass knob on it would easily break bones when swung with even light force and would not like arouse notice.

It sucks about the CCW situation in NYC area. You have to be a creative thinker when it comes to survival.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

my wife carries pepperspray, since she has a fear of any weapon she presents being snatched away and used on her.

I've seen webpages where a test subject lets a person spray them and he still manages to tackle them and hold them down, attacking from 10 feet away.

In addition, I find that unless you practice something under stress you are not going to remember to do it and you won't know how to do it and you will make simple mistakes, such as spraying yourself, or spraying into the wind.

This one site the guy teaches pepper spray by having several 'stations' where there are threats and one where you have to get through a door first and one where there's a fan and you have to maneuver the baddie to the opposite wall. Pretty cool.

Also...AND THIS IS KEY...have your spray out long before you need it and conceal it by your side. You don't want to be fumbling for it at the last minute.

Do not carry outdated spray. I have one that I got for dogs when I bike and I never used it. I have no idea if it will work. My bad...but I don't carry it since I don't ride near dogs right now.

Come up with a plan for next time. Anything. Throw money at them. Turn a hate-crime into a mere robbery. Throw your wallet one way and run the other. Whatever doesn't compromise your moral code, but keeps you from being chopped.

If you are going to 'throw your wallet', then have caution. This gives the baddie your address. Always carry a 'fake' wallet if you're going to be in a high crime area. I don't use a wallet, so I should take my own advise - too many areas are becoming high crime and are below the radar. Incidently good suggestion. Just don't throw something with your personal information in it. If in doubt, pull your money out and throw that.

I would encourage you with the thought that a plan will save you, more than a tool or implement will. I have disarmed an arrestee when I didn't have a gun in my holster. How did I do this? Well, I had been trained in how to behave in this scenario. The other fellow was just making it up as he went along.

If you just cover your holster as if you have a gun and turn a quarter away, the perp will think you have a gun.

The guy who has the best plan almost always wins. Improvising gets you killed. Lucky for you, the guy with the knife was improvising, too.

Exactly. And a 'plan' includes practicing it and not just practicing it in your martial arts class or walking through a drill. You have to do it under stress.

Once you have learned that you are not a 'freezer' (become immobile under stress), or a 'thinker' (you know what to do but your mind becomes blank), then you can pretty much count on memory.

But that's only until you meet a stress situation that pushes a button and you forget your training.

Even cops freeze or get distracted and get tunnel vision. That's why it's good to have a partner.

That's the last tip - try to go places with a friend, even the if you're a guy.

If you're alone, get out your cell and dial 911. They don't mind if you do that if you think you are in danger. They just don't want you to do it as a prank. Make this calling obvious. If you have a camera, take a picture, but use your judgement here. Some people will react badly if snapped.

Good post, hope this added to it.

luckily, here in Florida we can have concealed weapons permits, allowing us to carry firearms on us almost anywhere (not inside places of business / government facilities obviously).

I also believe that if you get your permit in Florida, many other states will recognize the same rights you have in Fl, while denying their own citizens those same rights.

For example (just making this up for illustrative purpose) if you get your permit in FL, then if you goto Georgia, it's as if you are still in FL since you have a FL permit - however people with Georgia permits do not have as many rights (within the context of concealed weapon permits)

Better check very carefully how the laws work when crossing state lines. As local state laws superceed your home state's laws on many issues. Like in Virgina it is illegal to operate a radar detector despite what the law is in your state. Although marriage is considered universal there is a strong debate to recognise a same sex marriage from a state that would legalise it. Which is partly why the marriage admendment to the US Constitution was proposed in the first place. So state governments would not have to accept a same sex marriage from another state or another country.

Given the envirnoment today, if your gun was not concealed well enough and you "incited a public panic" you could be facing far worse charges despite being perfectly legal in your home state. Of course that "public panic" might only be someone noticed what might be a gun bulge (because you were well endowed) and called the police.

Sometimes I think the national anthem should be changed to VFW by The Dead Milkmen

www.packing.org...

I double checked to see if anybody had posted this link yet and decided to go ahead since nobody had. Packing.org has a lot of good information about CCW programs in almost every state and can generally help you get started in what is often a confusing process if you've never applied before.

And as for stories of CCW holders in NYC I offer up this classic one.

Originally posted by MichaelMyers
Martial arts lessons are not going to help you. Karate, Tae Kwon Do, etc will not help you survive a knife attack in real life, you'll be freaked out.
Unless you practice MMA, and have lightning quick hands... knifes are nothing to # with.
Even a gun wont help if your within 22ft of a knife weilding assailant.

So, my advice, carry a knife yourself, taser or a gun, and learn to use them well.

I have to disagree with you. I do kickboxing and used to do karate before that. No I haven't ever disarmed someone attacking me with a knife for real but i can do it. I have a friend who has disarmed several people who all had knifes for real (he lives in a rough area). It does work.

How does carrying a knife help you to stop someone else who has a knife? unless you know how to block a knife with a knife( yes it is possilbe but is seriously advanced training). If you are going to get freaked out a knife won't help you then. You still need training to use a knife "correctly", ust as much as you do to disarm someone who has a knfie with your hands.

[edit on 24/5/2007 by Snake64_009]

Packing.org that another member put up is a great site to get an idea of process and dificulty of obtaining a permit. There are alot of things to consider when you carry a gun, it is a huge responsibility, but in this day and age a necessary one. If you do happen to get a permit in New York, it probably wouldnt be a bad idea to have a lawyer on retainer, and if you do have to exercise your right to defend yourself keep your mouth shut to the police, lawyer up right away. Another good bit of info that I received from my mother in law who is a lawyer, is if that gun comes out it needs to come out smoking. Practice, shoot as often as you can, think of different scenarios, and when out and about put yourself in a constant state of alertness. Try to distance yourself from trouble, if at all possible cross the street to the opposite side thugs are approaching from, if they pursue ventilate them. Remember one thing about all the pros and cons, it is your right to protect yourself, it is by no means a privilage, be relentless I am sure New York has a state rifle and pistol association that would be happy to help with any legal matters.

You could always get a dog for self defence. Something like a rottweiler or a german shepherd and get it trained to follow your commands. I think even a drunk guy with a machete would think twice about attacking you with a guard dog at your side. One important thing is to have a very clear command for attack and also a word that isn't very obviouse. I think that the only thing a dog will have to worry about is someone with a gun, so the dog + gun combo might be the best actually! One good thing about dogs is that one adults they are rarely lethal.

Anyway just wanted to point out that I've been living in the Bogota, Colombia for some time now. Here due to harsh gun laws it's next to impossible to get a permit, so only the criminals have guns...

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
I certainly would not encourage taking a quick trip down to Virginia, where anybody with a pulse can pick up a gun with very few questions asked and very little paperwork, and then keeping it with you concealed despite local laws. That would be wrong.

And if you should happen to do such a very wrong thing, I would suggest that if by chance you get stopped by law enforcement you keep your hands up very high and tell them you are carrying a weapon because they do not like surprises and might shoot first and ask you for your permit or lack of one later.

It basically boils down to how you weigh your personal safety against obeying the law.

exactly right... didn't have to go to virginia. got the paper. make a call..make another call.
go to the house and get the piece.
go home.
i don't cary it all the time but i carry it
i don't advocate doing it either but i know full well what i face

[edit on 7-6-2007 by Boondock78]

Originally posted by wingman77
I would suggest martial arts if you are in decent shape.
I would suggest starting with Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, or Karate. After you have one of those down you can move on to Kung Fu. .

sorry but where are you coming from?
kung fu to stop muggers?
tae kwon doe...

come on man.
if you want practical fighting take muay thai.

don't matter. i am a huge fan of martial arts and especially mma and joint manipulations. was pretty good till i got hurt.
i don't care what this dude or anyone else says. if you are going to rely on tae kwon do or kung fu, you're gonna be in a world of hurt. save the money on those lessons and get a piece.

maybe you could whip them with your brown belt with the purple stripe.

so you know, my first choice would be some form of mma but muay thai is a very practical style that keeps you on your feet. at least start with that for a year or so that way it will be your 'base'..a lot of grapplers(like me) got into it and grappling was a base and you tend to go to your roots and go for the ankle pick or something.
if you are in an alley, you don't want the instinct of your base to kick in and take a guy down cause then you are down. one on one then yeah but if there are a few people, you need to be on your feet.

kung fu


[edit on 7-6-2007 by Boondock78]

I was listening to Michael Savage the other day, very entertaining. He had a caller on there talking about Martial arts, savage says yeah I used to fool around with martial arts, then I went out and bought a glock instead. I have no problem with martial arts, but I just feel generally safer with that nice cold steel at my side. Confrontation is best avoided most times, but when there are no other options in a life and death situation, I would rather be throwing lead then punches.

In my opinion you have three options.

One. Leave things the way they are and take your chances the next time you have to go into this type of area.

Two. Quit your job, or transferr to someplace safer.

Three. Get a gun.

I reccomend choice three. If you do choose option three, then you have your work cut out for you. It might be a pain in the a$$ but don't even think of carrying illegally. My first choice would be to obtain the self-defence training first. This way you find out the responsibilities you assume when carrying a weapon. Another reason for obtaining the training first is that your instructor will know the ins and outs of obtaining a Conceled Weapons permit, your having instruction may actually make it easier to obtain your permit. During this training you will also learn the best type of weapon for you to carry.

After you finish your training and obtain your weapon and permit, if you are looking for a hobby, then consider the martial arts training. My main point against just relying on the martial arts training is the number of people who learn martial arts in prison. Martial arts is something that can take you years to become proficient enough to possibly protect yourself. Anybody can be taught to fire a weapon accurately in just a few days.

I still believe in the old saying "God created man. Samuel Colt made them equal."

One last thing. Don't let anyone tell you that the Police are responsible for your protection. The US Supreme Court has ruled that the Police are under no obligation to protect an individual. If you don't believe me, look up Gonzales vs Castle Rock. You are responsible for your own protection and that of your family.

In my opinion gun laws are useless. The only people who obey them are the ones you don't have to worry about in the first place.

A simple trick that can be very effective if you find yourself in a bad situation is to just act unstable yourself. It may seem strange, but my friend has used it with some success while walking through unfamiliar shady looking areas in big cities. Yell at yourself, curse loudly, basically act like you're crazy and highly unpredictable. Basically out-weird the weirdos, they won't know what to expect and you may actually scare the crap out of them.

Like I said, it may seem goofy, but if you're without a weapon or means of protection, it can work. My friend would do this while walking late-night through the (unfamiliar) streets of Prague (he spoke no Czech or anything remotely similar, but even if he did - who's gonna mess with a person who's obviously disturbed) after a drug dealer started harassing him.

My sisters and mother used to have mace/pepper spray keychains but luckily never had to use them. My sister actually maced me with my mother's when we were young teenagers and she was mad at me, but to tell you the truth all it did was sting and piss me off even more, not incapacitate me. I know there are many different varieties and strengths available though.

Originally posted by hikix
One of the guys starts getting loud and reaches into his sock and pulls out a MACHETE!!!!

Haven't had time to read the whole thread but....

HOW BIG WAS THIS SOCK??

Unless your using 'machete' as a euphemism that sock must of been up around his knee.

ahh the ol classic "machete in the sock" tactic. Favored by hispanics/latinos of course.

It sounds like they were trying to scare you and probably LOL'd as soon as you jumped in the car.

Honestly you just put yourself in a bad situation thats it. it was night time but we dont know what time. was it a bad neighborhood? known for late night crime, shootings, killing, robbings?

If it was why were you there? Why couldnt you re-schedule for next day in daytime or your office or somewhere you wont feel threatened?

Honestly its the same thing as me saying "OMG guys i was in south central LA doing some late night door to door sales in known drug/gang reputed neighborhood and these drunk black guys walked passed me and one pulled out a handgun! I am mad and thankful to be alive"

It makes no sense because you put yourself in that spot/situation. I know we all have to work but if its a bad neighborhood dont go at night. Or at least ask for the courtesy to wait inside your clients home while they pick you up.

Even if you had a handgun legally or illegaly its not like you were going to shoot anybody. In fact they probably would feel threatened even more if you had a handgun. If they really wanted to do something to you they would have done it. And even if your friend happend to show up they would have at least thrown the machete at the window or done something other than make you crap your pants.


PS Im in TX and If im not mistaken this Sept we have that "Castle doctrine law" or whatever its called going into effect. I may consider getting a firearm license once it passes.






[edit on 6/14/2007 by H34T533K3R]