Why can't I carry a gun?!?!?

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posted on May, 17 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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I certainly would not encourage taking a quick trip down to Virginia, where anybody with a pulse can pick up a gun with very few questions asked and very little paperwork, and then keeping it with you concealed despite local laws. That would be wrong.

And if you should happen to do such a very wrong thing, I would suggest that if by chance you get stopped by law enforcement you keep your hands up very high and tell them you are carrying a weapon because they do not like surprises and might shoot first and ask you for your permit or lack of one later.

It basically boils down to how you weigh your personal safety against obeying the law.




posted on May, 17 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by thematrix
Another thing that could help, learn some spanish and portugues (depending on which "hispanic" group you come in contact with.

You might think I'm mad, but primarely being able to understand what they were saying can make a difference (could be the guy was asking you the time or directions or something and perceived your non understanding as a racially based ignoring of him) and secondarely, talking to them can buy you time.

Thirdly, if it was race motivated aggression from this guy, hearing you talk in his native tongue would show your sympathetic to them.

Alot of non white racial hate comes from the race being under the impression that the white people hate them.

You couldn't imagine how many volatile and potentialy deadly situations I got out laughing instead of bleeding because I took the effort to learn enough turkish, maroccan and russian to understand and be understood.



I don't think you're mad I pretty damned certain of it. When are people going to stop giving away this country. Learn a non-english language to feel safe in our own country? You have got to be kidding me! When will the madness end. Get a gun. You'll be amazed how quickly the english will start coming out!

Keep giving the country away....you'll be soo much happier.just wait and see.

Becker



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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Remember Bernhard Hugo Goetz, the So Called "Subway Vigilante"
Took the Subway, "he was mad as Hell and not going to take it anymore!"


In 1984 on a NYC subway car four black youths asked asked an unassuming dorky looking white guy for $5. According to the four black guys, they were panhandling for money to play video games. According to the white guy, they were about to rob him. Who's right? Who knows. But at the end of it Bernard Goetz pulled out a gun and shot them, putting one of them, Darrell Caby, in a wheelchair for life.

Goetz was aquitted 3 years later . www.weht.net...


Things didn't go to well for him even though there was an enormous outpouring of public support.
11 years later Cabey sued Goetz in a civil action and won, being awarded $43 million in damages.

But on the other hand if Goetz wasn't armed, he might be pushing up daisys.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Becker44
I don't think you're mad I pretty damned certain of it. When are people going to stop giving away this country. Learn a non-english language to feel safe in our own country? You have got to be kidding me! When will the madness end. Get a gun. You'll be amazed how quickly the english will start coming out!

Keep giving the country away....you'll be soo much happier.just wait and see.

Becker


I have 2 service weapons and 3 private guns, I have concealed weapons permits for all but one of the private ones (you can't really conceal a 1.5 meter long sniper rifle :p)

When I lived in NYC, I befriended people that initially looked at me as any black, hispanic, asian or middle eastern person in harlem would look at a 6'1" white guy with blonde hair and blue/green eyes that only spent half his time living there and had plenty of money.

Talking and understanding made me allies and friends that spanned enemy streetgangs and population groups.

Over here, the 3 national languages are french, dutch and german. We have large turkish, marokkan and eastern european population groups too.

The turkish and marokkans originally came here because the country asked them to come as workers in the coal mines. Many of them stayed after the closing of the coal mines.

Nowadays, the eastern europeans come here to work in construction, spanish people come to work in agriculture.

Next to that, belgium is the crossroads of europe, where people from all over Eurazia come to or pass trough when traveling here.

Your argument about the US being an english speaking country is only correct in that english is the "official" language.

From the very start, america has had dutch, english, french, spanish, portugues, chinees, japanees, etc etc etc people living in it and communicating in it, eventualy working together to form North America in to what it now is.

If you rather hate everyone that is incapable of speaking american english fluiently, so be it, but if a different language is enough for you to hate people to the level that you rather shoot them then talk to them I can only say I'm sorry for you.

Heck, learning more languages can even give you an edge workwise, if you don't want to do it to get along with other people, do it so you can make more money.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Vixion
Firstly, its good to still have you with us then.

Why not take up some martial arts lessons ? guns arnt always the first step


I would have to agree with Vixion here. Martial arts is a better first step in my opinion rather than a gun. I do them and i think it is worth it.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by Vixion
Firstly, its good to still have you with us then.

Why not take up some martial arts lessons ? guns arnt always the first step



Glad your ok. I agree take martial arts lessions. I think you would stand a better change against a machete anyway then a gun.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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Matrix,

I think you're missing my point a little. Let me clarify. I feel it is a shame someone in the United States would have to learn a foreign language for saftey issues. I'm not a hater.....far from it in fact. While we are proud to be a melting pot of sorts this does not mean we are to give away our language to feel "safe"

It's factual information that urban/inner city areas have a higher level of "danger". Is it merely coincedence that in many of these areas English is rarely spoken. Perhaps you read me wrong and I didn't intend to snap at you personally. I apologize if you took it that way.

I feel for the OP and just think it's a crying shame the United States is being ridiculed for nearly everything on this planet. Now we can add our lack of tolerance to the language barrier. Great, just great.

Becker



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 04:34 PM
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A gun would be handy if you visit dodgy areas a lot, but it's also an extreme form of protection. Along with a firearm comes a great responsibility and risk that if you use it you could end up with some hefty police and court troubles.

I'm sure a pepper spray would do the job sufficiently, and you don't have the risk of killing people and getting into big issues.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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I, too, am glad you're OK. A tense situation, to be sure.

Down here in Florida, concealed carry permits are easy to get, providing you have a clear record for the last 3 years (and are not a convicted felon, of course). A gun safety course, a picture of yourself (passport-style), and around $300.00, and you're golden.
I understand it's infinitely harder in New York

They have also recently passed a law here (compliments of Jeb, the other Bush), stating that it's legal to kill someone if you feel they are threatening your life.

The Florida legislature Tuesday passed a bill allowing people to use deadly force in a public place if they have a reasonable belief that they are in danger of death or great bodily harm. Source

There are pros and cons to this law, and you still have to justify your actions, probably in court. In the end, though, you're better off in court then in the morgue, right?

Of course, carrying any weapon is a matter of personal preference. The advantage of martial arts is that no one can take your weapon away. The advantage of firearms is that you don't need to come in contact with the attacker. Most times just taking out a pistol is enough to deter a would-be attacker. If not, they deserve what they get. I think a person forfeits his/her rights as soon as they decide to violate yours.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by malganis
I'm sure a pepper spray would do the job sufficiently, and you don't have the risk of killing people and getting into big issues.

These days, it's almost better to kill them.
Dead people don't sue you.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by malganis
I'm sure a pepper spray would do the job sufficiently, and you don't have the risk of killing people and getting into big issues.

These days, it's almost better to kill them.
Dead people don't sue you.


This topic is such a double-edged sword. There are pros and cons to carrying a gun, and with the strict laws in NY the cons most likely outweigh the pros. Imagine if i didnt have a permit and shot him.. ill prolly be sitting in prison for 10 years!



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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Your not allowed to carry a gun because government is ALWAYS there to protect you. It's important that you don't forget that.
What you should have done was tell those guys that you were gonna call the police if they didn't stop threatening you with that machete.

Criminals always run when they find out that their victims may call the cops.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by Samhain
Your not allowed to carry a gun because government is ALWAYS there to protect you. It's important that you don't forget that.
What you should have done was tell those guys that you were gonna call the police if they didn't stop threatening you with that machete.

Criminals always run when they find out that their victims may call the cops.


First you'd need to have a cellphone on you to do that.
Second, you wouldn't have the time until you defuse the situation by talking to the assailant, defuse the situation by disarming the assailant or defusing the situation by running away.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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Good to hear that you made it out of that situation!

I have to add one thing to this discussion, at least. If you do get a handgun, with or without a concealed carry permit, there are three things you also need:

1) Practice. A lot. Find a good shooting range, and go. It's no good owning a gun if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with it. On the other hand, knowing that you do own a gun, and are proficient with it, can give you a huge amount of confidence, which, in and of itself, can be a great help in situations like the one you're describing. Also, at least for me, the act of target shooting is a great stress reliever. Sort of like those Zen archers, but with better pyro.


2) Maintenance. If you've never cleaned a gun before, have a professional show you how to do it. The folks at your shooting range can show you, or point you to a local gunsmith who can. Once you know how, clean your weapon every time it's fired. A gun that jams is no good in a tight situation.

3) Training. It's usually possible to take a tactical handgun course, either through your local police department, or through a local gun club or shooting range. Learn the do's and the don'ts of using your weapon. As Victor Borge said about plaing the cymbals..."The important part is knowing when.".

If you already knew these things, then I apologize for 'preaching to the choir'....but it's amazing (to me, at least) the number of people who buy a gun, and even get the permits, then overlook the basic training they need to be both tactically effective and safe.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by thematrix

First you'd need to have a cellphone on you to do that.
Second, you wouldn't have the time until you defuse the situation by talking to the assailant, defuse the situation by disarming the assailant or defusing the situation by running away.


Your right,a cell phone is your best weapon against machete wielding thugs

Seriously though, Trying to disarm someone holding a machete is a REALLY bad idea.
So is attempting to run. What if your overweight, or older? or both!!??
What if your a petite woman,being faced with 3 men ready to kill and rape you?
Can your wife(or girlfriend) out run you?



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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You obviously were not the only victum of this person in hos lifetime, and very likely wont be the last.
The very fact he had a machete is damning enough!
Who runs around with a machete in their sock?
Nobody friendly that i know of.....
Think about your sentence that if youd have had a gun, hed likely be dead now....
Are you sure you want to have the means to take a life to be responsible for?
The situation then eveolves that the gun carryer is likely to end up intervening in other violent scenes invvolving strangers and it isnt always easy to come down on the side of righteousness.
Think twice before you become a lifetaker and a heartbreaker.....do you want that responsibility?
You know you will be asking for trouble then...so be prepared for further moral dillemmas in future,as well as the chance that you could shoot ther wrong bad guy,and end up one yourself....
bergle



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by hikix

This topic is such a double-edged sword. There are pros and cons to carrying a gun, and with the strict laws in NY the cons most likely outweigh the pros. Imagine if i didnt have a permit and shot him.. ill prolly be sitting in prison for 10 years!


Maybe or maybe not. It really all depends on your defense lawyer. Unfortunately the court system is really becoming degraded to the point of paying in money or paying in time.

But in that situation I think that the show of deadly force would have been a quick deterent. The old adage of bringing a knife to a gun fight might have kicked in to even a drunken brain.

Other than the legal question, the deeper question is do you feel you can handle the mential side of having to use a gun on another human being and comfortable of when and when not to draw? Answering those questions to your satisfaction could change your question from why can't I to why don't I carry a gun.

I used to illegally carry working as a gas attendant. CCW was illegal, a gun on the property was against company policy, I entered the local bank carrying and even drove my car with a loaded pistol on my person. Spoke with an officer and filled out a report on a recovered counterfit bill while carrying. It wasn't to protect the cash, insurance covers that loss. It was to protect me and other customers if need be.

Laws and society may want you to be helpless and coddled, criminals want you to be victims. I was taught to be my own man and that adults get to make their own choices in a free society. If envoking my second ammendment right in order to protect myself is unsatisfactory then so be it. But I will ask then and there if I am to consider myself to be victim of a criminal or just a coddled ward of the state that was never a free citizen.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by bergle

You obviously were not the only victum of this person in hos lifetime, and very likely wont be the last.
The very fact he had a machete is damning enough!
Who runs around with a machete in their sock?
Nobody friendly that i know of.....
Think about your sentence that if youd have had a gun, hed likely be dead now....
Are you sure you want to have the means to take a life to be responsible for?
The situation then eveolves that the gun carryer is likely to end up intervening in other violent scenes invvolving strangers and it isnt always easy to come down on the side of righteousness.
Think twice before you become a lifetaker and a heartbreaker.....do you want that responsibility?
You know you will be asking for trouble then...so be prepared for further moral dillemmas in future,as well as the chance that you could shoot ther wrong bad guy,and end up one yourself....
bergle


The lawful gun owner would have drawn his weapon and told his would be murderers to back off. If they did,he should then have called the police and made a report so they may find and apprehend the criminal idiots.
If they did not back off but continued to advance on him then there would be no doubt as to whether he got the right or wrong bad guys.
Of course anyone that has to shoot another person will be emotionally traumatized.
I'll take emotional trauma over dead any day.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by hikix
Yeah, thank god because if he planned on killing me from the get go he would have done long before my friend got there. And it wasnt a knife, he had about a 2 foot long machete.



And just think how much quicker he could have killed you (and from a greater distance...even if you had the sense to run away!) if HE had a gun!

Sauce for the gander is also sauce for the GOOSED!

Your right to carry would be His right to carry, too!



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 08:22 PM
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While I doubt machete wielding thugs could get a permit for CC, one thing I don't doubt is that he could have bought and carried(illegally) a gun FAR cheaper and easier than the law abiding average Joe. It's been said a million times, Prohibitive gun laws only hurt law abiding responsible people.
Maybe we should outlaw machete's.
I know!! we should make people get a special permit to carry a concealed machete! Thats gonna stop crime for sure!





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