Is America worth patriotism?

Originally posted by itguysrule
I admire your idealism but I don't think we are to that point yet. The world has not changed THAT MUCH since 1941.

Actually it has; for the worse. But the power of one's idealism rests solely on the quality of who/what they choose for an ideal. I have chosen the best and I see 4 years as quite a long time if the efforts are sincere and the leader has integrity.

There are still plenty of people in the world who would be delighted to kill you where you stand regardless of how much forgiveness and empathy you offer them.

No doubt! I've been there, trust me. After you die so many times...it no longer 'takes.' Not that I am bullet proof...but I am indeed like a 'bad penny.' And fearlessness is a powerful deterrent to most threats...most are not fully committed and are merely bullies at heart. Besides that, I'm pretty nimble if you know what I mean.

The fact that you or I see no reason for any nation to make war upon another does not mean everyone else sees the world as we do.

True enough. But sometimes we just don't realize how WELL other ideas might work because no one has the courage to stand up and suggest something unconventional and unpopular.

BUT, on the other hand...do you REALLY think, on an individual level, that there are ANY mothers or fathers in this world who bring their children into the world just to sacrifice for the land in which they live....not for their freedom or anything important anymore, but just to FIGHT?

I think not. The world, at heart. wants peace. The only problem is that it takes a lot more courage to establish peace than to create war. And peace is not as profitable to the powers that be, but in the long run, is our only sure return on our spiritual investment and the futures of our families.

Well Ive ran my mouth on this thread and not said anything on the original question posed. Its time I remedy that.

The original question was, "Is America worth patriotism?"
Without question I can answer that. It is not a yes or no question as it goes to deep for that. Instead I will give you a few short stories from my own life and you may decide for yourself.

I will start a long time ago. I married many years ago to a Hispanic, who naturally is catholic. I myself am spiritual but not religious. Nobody stopped the wedding because of our differences. both sides of the family showed and except for a language barrier (loads of Tequila) we had a great time. We have two beautiful children, (Mixed I might add). They don't take them away from us for being of mixed race and un-pure.

We live in a small town of about 1000 people predominantly white mostly farmers. We got the down payment for our house from a government grant to help beginning family's get out of the rental rut and become home owners. Our house is a gorges 125yr old farm house, still in awesome shape.

About four years ago I had a awful accident, I tried to steer around a dog in the road on wet roads and I rolled my jeep. The jeep and I rolled into and in one case threw a little patch of aspen trees along side the road. The jeep was destroyed and I was hurt very badly. I would have been killed had not the jeep had to meet certain mandated safety standards. It took the fire department and police 4 hours to extract me from the vehicle. I made it thanks to those fireman and women and police men and women, and the doctors who worked tirelessly on me to save my life and limbs.

Thank goodness I had great medical insurance, to help with the medical bills. What insurance didn't cover, you guest it I was able to apply for help and received it to take care of the rest. I didn't have to pay for the rescue itself. that was prepaid by my tax dollars. I missed 8 months of work while I was healing, and received help with the bills and food while I was trying to get back on my feet literately.

My son is at school as I type this receiving great education that We don't pay for. He wants to volunteer for the Army when he is old enough like his dad did. Volunteer is the key word there. My daughter has graduated high school and is in college. which she received a partial grant for, and the rest is a low interest government backed loan. She is studying journalism. My family and I are survivalist.


What my point to all this you may ask. Its easy. We have a good life in this country. We don't have to worry about religious prosecution. we are free to marry some one of a different color and have a family with them. If we get in over our heads there is help if were educated enough to ask for it. If we are in a life threating situation there is help to save us. Most of the products we purchase have to be relatively safe in order to be sold to us. We can choose to worship any way we want, our children can go to public schools, and even play sports and or music if they like. If somebody breaks into my house or car and takes what I've worked hard for, there are people who try to get it back for me and put the bad guys away. They charge me nothing for doing that. There is a wonderful organization witch my wife and I belong to called CERT which has given us free training to help our fellow countrymen in case of emergency. We paid nothing for the training.

I could go on and on but I think you get the point. Now When asked Is America worth patriotism? The answer is yes. loudly yes proudly yes H, E, double hockey sticks yes.

Angry, sounds like you've had an interesting life so far. And I'm glad you've found your spot in it and have the happiness that everyone deserves. You, in my mind, are the regular American that we all see and know and respect. (Well, except our detractors who want to kill us and our leaders that want to use us.) It is good that those safety nets were there when you went through hard times, and they are there because deep down Americans care.

Even though many seemed to think, in the beginning, that I was saying that patriotism was wrong, that's not so. I want people to question the fact and not accept it as a given. Too often we go through life taking things, and our own feelings about life, for granted. We don't stop and ask,"Is this what I really think, and if so, why?" We are robots when we fail to do this, and robots can easily be led down some dim and murky trails.

Above all, IMO, patriotism is to my brothers and sisters in this nation, and to my children and grandchildren who will deal with whatever I leave unfinished. Patriotism isn't to the leaders, to the 'parties', to the catchphrases, or to the almighty dollar. And because I feel that to be true, then patriotism demands that I work to change those things that are bad in my nation. Just as a good soldier corrects things that may harm his unit in battle, a patriot must change those things that will harm his fellows here. To ignore the failings of our nation is dereliction of my duty. All those things that my elders put in place to help me are my responsibility to restore and keep in good order.

To question, and correct, is not being unpatriotic, as GWB would have it. It is in fact the very embodiment of patriotism.

Very interesting post. Well done.
My answer is yes. I truly believe that America is worth the patriotism. As the OP pointed out, there is alot that is broken with her, but I love her, and would die to defend her without hesitation. While the government is in dire need of a complete overhaul, as does the judicial system, America the beautiful is a country where dreams can truly happen. I'm older than alot of the members here, but when I was born in the early 60's, there were restrooms for whites, and restrooms for blacks - nearly everything was segregated. Today, there is a real possibility that a black man might be the next president of the US. Without sounding sappy, both sets of my grandparents came over to the US from Italy. They had absolutely nothing, and dreamed of living in the country where the streets were paved with gold. They worked hard, raised families, and lived the American dream.
Are there things in American history which I wish we could erase? You bet. Are there things going on today that drive me crazy? You bet.
The governing body of America is fat and complacent. The words "For the people, by the people" seem to be all but forgotten.

I stand, remove my hat, and put my hand on my heart when the National Anthem is played. I get misty eyed when I hear the Star Spangled Banner.
I've always respected the American flag. But after 9/11, I'll never look at that beautiful flag the same way again. Do you remember right after 9/11? I'm not ashamed to admit that I cried more that day than I have in the 40 something years of my life.
Remember that the petty hatred amongst Americans practically disappeared? We were one nation, and one set of brothers. There was a respect for other people when just the day before there was some petty reason to dislike the same person. When we all stood together and proclaimed "I am an American!" When every time the Star Spangled Banner, or America the Beautiful was played we all stopped what we were doing, and stood riveted. I remember that. That is the America I love, and wish would be permanent.
Yes I believe that she is worth the patriotism.
This is written by one damn proud American.

NGC2736, I know weve already talked and weve each made similar threads about our Nation. For some reason I couldnt post here earlier but its working now so idk lol..
Anyway I just wanted to tell you good job on your post and I wish I wouldve read it when I first seen it but like i said I assumed it was just another typical anti-american post.
We seem to have very similar opinions and ideas. Its to bad that politicians dont give a crap what we think or say, they arent afraid of being voted out.
Term limits could be an answer. However, what are the chances of congress voting on a bill that would end their terms?
Do you really believe they would vote themselves out of work? I dont think thats a realistic solution, so it would be up to the people of America to get off their butts and make some effort.
Voter apathy is rampant in this country and I dont see a solution anytime soon.
peace.

Big K, I agree that the term limit idea isn't likely to ever fly. Being a pol is just too cushy of a job, and too profitable. And people who don't vote are a big reason we're in this mess.

But nothing can go on forever. The bill is about to come due on all of this mismanagement. Any company that's failing, puts on a good front right up to the end. This isn't much different. Everybody in D.C. acting like it's all well and good, but you can see the strain.

When two or three generals turn down the job of running a war, you can bet they see the sh*t's getting close to the fan. The rats are starting to jump ship. And it's not just the military, I've noticed a lot of senior executives retiring from the major companies in the past year. Not always the CEOs, but high placed non the less.

And there's a lot more people willing to talk about making major changes in how things are done. Now a lot of this is jockying for position in the future. It reminds me of a horse race, where everyone knows that just one wrong move and the lead horses will fall and trip half the field. These lower level people are expecting it, and looking for how they can best take advantage of it to come out a 'winner'.

Just my take. Maybe I'm tired and seeing things. I'll see how it looks when I wake up.

Peace all.

The Declaration Of Independence

First off, thanks for the thread NGC2736. I like to hear other peoples opinions and stories. But this thread with most of it's posters sounds like it should be in the conspiracy thread. But this is the place to rant about anything. I had to throw the Declaration Of Independence in here for anyone who wants to read it. I'm not ashamed of my country for we all make mistakes. Alot of people here bashing America and I can't stand it any longer. Haven't heard Americans bashing Indians or other countries in their post. But I know when something goes wrong and disaster strikes America will be there. If it's the other way around and disaster strikes America. America will be there. If we were to blame this person and that one and this country and that one for the past, then none of us would be here today. If you're a believer in God, then listen to his words when he says to forget the past, live for today and be ready for the future.

Originally posted by NGC2736
It is your representatives in those hallowed halls that draw fat paychecks and generous retirements, while there are people here in this land of plenty who put their children to bed without supper.

The representatives made it there because they wanted to and did it. I still think they get paid to much and abuse the money we give them. I think they should be paid for the good things they do and if they don't then they don't get paid. I believe that in America there is no excuse for not getting out there and making a good living. We the people have a choice to get a good education whether it be government schools or private. We the people make our own choices and decide if we want to learn from our mistakes and better ourselfs. We decide if we want to go down that road to somewhere or the other road to nowhere. I do see alot of lazy people who just don't want to get off their a*s and make it on their own. They're the ones who want pity and America tax payers are paying to take care of them. They do nothing but complain about how bad they have it. But that was their choice.

Originally posted by NGC2736
Who wants to do more than complain?

I'm trying to do all I can do and more, I vote, I send letters, I volunteer my time to children who are less fortunate mainly because of their parents. I'm all for the Fair Tax and go to rally's. This will take away alot of power from the government and give it back to the people. That's why it's hard to get it passed. I suggest everyone read about it and get the book. Fair Tax
I'm raising my children on moral values and letting them no about the history that the schools aren't teaching them. I'm letting them know that if you want it you have to work for it and earn it. My kids unlike others I've met do and will always have respect for themselfs and others who deserve respect. There's just so much I can do, but with rally's and groups of people doing it together we can prevail.

Originally posted by NGC2736
Is America worth patriotism?

Hell yes!! To much blood has been sacraficed for our freedom, and none of those brave men and women are gonna die in vain if I have anything to do with it. We don't have to wait for medical care for months at a time. If we want a cat scan we can get that the next day. We have the right to speak out and to defend ourselves. Our country has been the champion for freedom and human rights since it began.
The Bill Of Rights
As Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “A man who won’t die for something is not fit to live.”

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The 9/11 Conspiracy stuff is unknown to most and only believed by a tiny handful of people in this country. They are very vocal so it may seem as though there are many, but that is just not true. Of course they don't want others to know that because it takes away some of their self-perceived power.

What the Sept. 11 terrorists did was NOT noble or honorable. There can NEVER be anything noble or honorable in the killing of innocent women and children. They hid behind religion to justify their evil deeds. Quit looking for an excuse conspiraters. And blame it on the terrorists that killed that day.

Alot of good points and arguments in here, we need good people to represent us. I want more done for the people, but at the same time the people have to educate themselves and not just vote because they can. They need to vote for whats right and if it isn't then don't vote for them. It will take the people of this country to change it I believe the politicians like it just the way it is. Now days both parents have to work, pay taxes and die. Most people don't have the time to get together with others and stand in front of the white house, or rally because of this. There's good and bad people no matter where you go in the world. I love my country and know other countries do to because they're coming and wanting to live here. Again thanks for the rant NGC2736.

You get what you deserve. Start off by electing a proper president , because bushes, and Reagan and others were jokes right?.

Stop going to war with third world countries, that doesn't earn you respect either. Also please tone down the bible thumping. Most of the world doesn't care about your god. Europe is being atheised, and the rest is either muslim or buddhist.

Solar and Dark, glad you guys joined us. It is great to see the very thing that made this a great nation working right here on this thread. Strong voices that speak out on their love for this nation and what needs to be done to make it work better.

Any of our overseas friends should know that we, the type of people who are trying to change things up, are the real America. America is not our government. Democracy is like trying to break wild horses to pull a wagon, and then every few years changing out some of the horses for new wild ones. All we can do is work hard to keep the wagon rolling in the right direction.

Well, I agree with you about The Bush(s) but in my opinion Reagan was a great President but thats just my opinion.
The world is being turned to atheism, whatever you say. I dont see the US trying to force Christianity on anyone but I do see another fanatic religion trying to. Yea I know, everyone keeps trying to claim that Islam is a "peaceful" religion haha ok.
Really though, I'm far more concerned about Israels influence on our country and the world, than I am about Islam.
Im sure Blair is such a boyscout to..

Originally posted by DarkSide
You get what you deserve. Start off by electing a proper president , because bushes, and Reagan and others were jokes right?.

Stop going to war with third world countries, that doesn't earn you respect either. Also please tone down the bible thumping. Most of the world doesn't care about your god. Europe is being atheised, and the rest is either muslim or buddhist.

I agree Kronos, Reagon was a good president and need more like him. America in my opinion has lost what our four fathers started this country on. Like " We The People " not our government. Seems like the government is making all the deicisions while we all sit back and watch. That needs to change. National morality is lost. What happen to moral values and respect for your fellow man/woman? America's rule of law is a joke. We get illegal aliens coming across our borders and nothing is being done about it except talk of amnesty. People getting slaps on the risk for crimes us normal citizens would go to jail for. ( Hollywood Stars, Politicians, and of course people who can afford lawyers to get them out of murder ( OJ Simpson ). Prayer being taken out of our schools while other religions are asking for prayer time ( Muslims ). I want America back with people who are willing to stand up for her. It's time to close our borders and for people to earn their right to be a citizen using the rule of law to achieve that. All this I'll sue you and they'll sue you crap needs to change. If you take someone to court and you lose then the loser pays for everything that the other person lost, like time from work, court expenses etc. It's sad that those people get taken to court and win but still have to pay for a lawyer, court cost, and lose time from work. I can go on and on but I won't. There's just to much that needs fixed. America is worth my patriotism, thanks to the men and women who paid the ultimate price. They fought so that their children wouldn't have to. So no matter how bad it gets here, I'll still hang in and fight for my rights and the rights of others.

Is America worth patriotism? Short answer, Yes.

According to Sir Winston Churchill, "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others that have been tried."

We Americans are, for the most part, an arrogant, ignorant, wasteful, and oblivious lot. Most of my Canadian and EU friends can tell me the governor and sometimes even the senator of nearly every state in the United States, and yet I can barely keep track of their respective Prime Ministers, much less who's in Parliament. We like to think we're the leader in human rights, and yet we actually fall short in many areas the rest of the civilized world has already remedied (such as a Children's Bill of Rights). Our educational system is one of the worst on the planet, not just among first world nations. While the EU and China are regularly and profitably producing appliances and vehicles that are, on the average, two to three times more energy or fuel efficient than their American counterparts, our own manufacturers lie to us with a straight face and tell us it cannot be affordably done.

Yet somehow, it all works out.

Through hook, crook, gun, and fun, we've managed to create something that works so well that so far nothing has been able to stop it.
In fact, there's still a relatively good chance that we might yet stay ahead of China, despite being outnumbered almost 4 to 1, because of Freedom of Speech, and thus, the free exchange of ideas. Because we have the ability to discuss with one another, nearly any subject or opinion, with little or no fear of reprisal other than the righteous indignation of the persons we are speaking to, we create an ever-present primordial ooze of information from which evolves a constant stream of new memes, ideas, inventions, creations, and so forth.

The extreme ideal of independance, being a maverick, taking on the world solo, is, as far as I know, a more or less uniquely American concept. In Japan, one would never consider breaking with social conventions, lest shame and closed doors follow them to their grave. In America, we have very few standard social conventions, and the few we do have are regularly broken in the name of art. In Britain, someone nutting out and performing an outrageously rude stunt would likely earn national rebuke, whereas in America it might just make them a star for a week. In China, criticizing the government immediately leads to censorship, unless it follows pre-approved governmental standards and procedures, and is approved by committee. In America, you can tune in to nearly any paper, radio, tv, or web page, and find everything from rants about Administration policy, to discussions on seccession.

And unlike previous democracies, we have had the military might and civilian resiliance to withstand any threats, foreign and domestic, in the interests of survival of the country. Even our own government might one day be considered a threat to democracy, and to this end, our nation was even founded on the idea that if the government became too tyrannical, the people needed the ability to rise up and revolt.

Our metal has been tested from inception, from the initial day we had to go to war against our ruler, to war with several other colonizers of America, to twice fighting against a force seeking global domination. We survived communism, and three disasterous wars. We've survived terrorism, corrupt administrations, and even a civil war. We've even managed to survive (so far) an administration so corrupt, so bent on destruction of the countries values, that left unchecked would have turned us into another North Korea.

But we didn't cave to any of those. In peacetime, no two Americans can agree on how the country should be run. Thanks to the current administration, the political divide had become a volatile line of screaming arguments back and forth, both sides calling each other UnAmerican, and both sides convinced the other would be the downfall of the country. Perhaps we were even on the verge of a new civil war, Republicans against the Democrats, where screaming turns to shooting.

But we survived that. When the balance of power swung too far in the direction of tyrrany, America grabbed ahold of the pendulum and yanked it back towards liberty and the will of the people. Rather than turning it into a further divide, now our Congress and Senate talk of cooperation, bipartisan decisions, and moderation. Once more, people can, for the most part, calmly discuss their political opinions and debate them, without relationships being ruined as a result. Perhaps my child will live to see the day where "Red State" and "Blue State" are nothing more than history lessons, like the McCarthy Hearings, Slavery, or the Japanese internment camps.

And now, the newest threat, Global Climate Change... though America has been tortisesque in getting on board, most of us have come to accept that it is a very real problem, and that something must be done about it, and that our own wasteful ignorance is the majority cause, as far as human contributions go. We will see how well we adapt and change to survive this problem, but if our past is any indication, I think we'll eventually do right by the rest of the world.

It is important for our younger audience to remember that a country is huge, comprised of many many millions of people. The larger a country, the more inertia it has. When America heads in one direction, it is a very slow and deliberate process to head in another, new direction. The further the angle from the previous direction, and the more weight behind the previous direction, the longer it takes to turn around to the new direction. Think of it as the social equivolent of physics.

But it works. We may, at times, seem like a slow, dense, bumbling, giant adolescent of a nation that hasn't quite grown into it's own feet and knees, but overall, we have plenty to be proud of, and no more to be ashamed of than any other country on Earth.

Thus, I am a patriot. I love my country immensely. I may hate certain administrations and policies, but that should never be confused with hatred for my country.

Well spoken, all. My heartfelt thanks, not just for the posts, but for my brothers and sisters in America. You, one and all, are the reason I am proud to be an American.

Despite our shortcomings, our failures, and sometimes our moronic leadership, at the core, Americans are the most caring, committed, open people on the planet. (Sorry to you folks from other nations, but that is national pride speaking, and I for one, while respecting all people, will never change in my love for my country.)

But now is the hard part. I have left this thread to sort of wander on it's own, that I might hear the hearts and souls of my countrymen. Now we must chose the course for the nation our sons and daughters will get. It is not enough to know that there are failures in our leadership. It is not enough to know that we are neglecting the basic elements of our Constitution, we must now stand.

There comes a time to every person when they must decide if what they believe in is the ultimate truth. This time has now come for us.

We must, as a matter of conscience, decide if liberty is worth our all. Not all, our ALL. We must decide if the cause of justice and truth are so important that we will risk even our very lives to support it. We must decide if we are worthy to be the heirs of our founding fathers.

It is not enough to support freedom, to believe in justice for all, to speak the words of of liberty. There comes a time when action is demanded of the souls of men. When nothing less will be accepted. Our nation is now at that crossroads where this must be decided.

This is a forum of anonymous voices, where many can speak. But now is the time when you, and you alone, must listen to that inner voice that tells you right from wrong. None will know if you lack honor in the cause of liberty, but you will know yourself. And this is as it should be, for the choice to live free or be forever bound is an individual decision.

But think long on this, for it seems that we are coming to a watershed moment in history. A moment that may not return for a long time. The choice you make now, to give everything in the defense of freedom or to hoard what you have and hope others save you, will stand in your soul for all the years of your life.

Originally posted by NGC2736
We must, as a matter of conscience, decide if liberty is worth our all. Not all, our ALL. We must decide if the cause of justice and truth are so important that we will risk even our very lives to support it. We must decide if we are worthy to be the heirs of our founding fathers.

It is not enough to support freedom, to believe in justice for all, to speak the words of of liberty. There comes a time when action is demanded of the souls of men. When nothing less will be accepted. Our nation is now at that crossroads where this must be decided.

A very rousing sentiment, to be sure, but it is unclear as to what you are implying. Part of what makes America America is that everyone has different ideas as to what it takes to ensure the survival of the country, it's values, and even down to what those values are. If you were to post an open thread asking one simple question: "What would it take to ensure the survival of America?" You would receive answers about health care to stealth bombers and everything in between. Were you to suddenly stand up and say "the way to preserve America is ABC," you would immediately get half your responses arguing against ABC, and instead proposing XYZ. It's a horribly frustrating process at times, but is part and parcel to a nation with freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and a very individualistic attitude.

Personally, I think we're tested as a nation every single day. Most of the time we're not aware of it because there's simply too much going on to really care about anything but the loudest things. But I cannot think of a single year, or indeed, a single month, where there wasn't some key deciding factor that would have national repurcussions. Sometimes it's as often as every single day. Some days seem more important than others, like wars, disasters, terrorism, and so forth, but in truth, by that point, they are usually the resulting culmination of all our previous day-to-day decisions at that point.

Soooo... what is a man to do? Make every day count. Each day, do something to make your nation a little better off, whether it's trying to get someone else to think, be more self-sufficient, learning a new skill you can use to help or defend others with, or simply voting your conscience. It's easy to rise to the challenge once from an impassioned call. It's far more difficult (but much more rewarding) to do the right thing each day, every day.

Now try getting two people to agree on what "the right thing" is, and there's the beginning of a plan.

Is America worth patriotism? YOU BET IT IS!

Ok, the good old US has it's problems. But What Contry on this Planet Doesn't? This country has More Rights, and More Freedoms then Any Other place on earth. We know what our basic rights are, they were written into our government when it was first created.

Also, for all of our faults, the USA has done a lot of good around the world. Look at Humanatarian Aid:

1. When there is a big natural disaster somewhere like an earthquake or a hurrican, what country cames running with planes of food and medical supplies?

2. What country has helped bring an end to Genocidal dictators from Hitler to Malasivch?

3. Who has More foriegn aid in their national budget then anyone else?

If you ansered America to all of thee above, you are correct!

Hey if you don't like America, the door is open! You Can LEAVE whenever you wish! As for me, I love this country and I'm staying!

Tim

Ghost, I too will stay, for I too love my nation.

Libra, the answer is simple, return to the Constitution. Argue and change all you want. fix or unfix whatever. But do it all under the framework of the greatest document so far devised by man.

I will hold with many of my country's decisions, even when those are not my personal choices, as long as they are constitutional.

It is this concept, radical as it may seem to some, that I think is the pivotal point in America right now.

We will always have political hacks, corruption, mismanagement, all the ills of a 'superstate'. But we must make it clear that we will no longer tolerate ignoring the Constitution of these United States of America.

It is as simple as that. Lawlessness is the result of any other course. I for one would prefer that this split from the original concepts of our nation be decided peacefully, but it must be settled once and for all, and damn the costs.

Originally posted by NGC2736
Libra, the answer is simple, return to the Constitution. Argue and change all you want. fix or unfix whatever. But do it all under the framework of the greatest document so far devised by man.

Ah, well with that I couldn't agree more.

A lot of people try to justify the systematic dissemination of our Constitution as being neccessary because "it's a different world now", but I beg to differ. I refuse to accept the notion that I must give up my civil liberties, and live in a police state, in order for America to survive. The notion in and of itself is a contradiction, because if America loses its Freedom to preserve it's name, then what was the point?

Originally posted by NGC2736
Ghost, I too will stay, for I too love my nation.

Libra, the answer is simple, return to the Constitution. Argue and change all you want. fix or unfix whatever. But do it all under the framework of the greatest document so far devised by man.

Right On! the answer to our problems isn't to run away, but to go back to our roots as a country. America has a rich history to draw from and learn from. The answers we need to fix this mess are in the Constitution. As Americans, out nation and it's government belong to us, The People of the United States of America! We biult this nation over the generations with good citizenship. It's OUR country, and these are OUR problems. Let be mature about this. We can't run away from something that we as Americans helped to create.

It time to STOP running from these problems and START solving them! Every generation since 1776 has done this, Now it it OUR turn!

Tim

[edit on 5/23/2007 by Ghost01]

Now if we can find some candidates that want the Constitution as the basis of our government, we'll have something to work with.

As I see it now, Ron Paul is the front runner for that, but he'll need help.

I've e-mailed everyone from local leaders on up, telling them I want a return to Constitutional government. I urge each of you to do the same. I also stress that I, and anyone that I can influence, will vote against those who do not STRICTLY uphold the Constitution with every law and action taken by our government.

UGh this subject drives me crazy :bnghd: But I will do my best to make sense to you all.

Originally posted by NGC2736
Ghost, I too will stay, for I too love my nation.

Libra, the answer is simple, return to the Constitution. Argue and change all you want. fix or unfix whatever. But do it all under the framework of the greatest document so far devised by man.

I agree please see below.

Originally posted by Ghost01
Right On! the answer to our problems isn't to run away, but to go back to our roots as a country. America has a rich history to draw from and learn from. The answers we need to fix this mess are in the Constitution. As Americans, out nation and it's government belong to us, The People of the United States of America! We built this nation over the generations with good citizenship. It's OUR country, and these are OUR problems. Let be mature about this. We can't run away from something that we as Americans helped to create.

It time to STOP running from these problems and START solving them! Every generation since 1776 has done this, Now it it OUR turn!

Tim

While I agree that we need to stick to the Constitution, lets be clear on what the Constitution is. The Constitution in and of itself is nothing more then a piece of parchment with words on it, based on Morals. Our government has deviated from the Constitution because we the people have deviated from our moral path, thus allowing them to deviate from there moral path.

Keep in mind I am not talking about religious, morals. Religion and morals don't always go hand in hand. I am talking about common sense morals.

Common sense is something this country seems to have lost. Not sure which came first the loss of common sense or the relaxing of morals. The two will feed on each other until there is nothing left to feed on.

In order to regain our country we must regain our morals. once we regain or morals we then must hold our government accountable. This includes going after war criminals such as George Bush SR, George Bush Jr and the Devil himself Dick chanie. Weather they are in or out of office at the time of our moral re-awakening shouldn't matter. Criminals are criminals and in a moral country criminals need to be punished.

In closing I agree we need to get back to the Constitution that can only be done by getting back to our morals Please dont beat me to badly on my views.

[edit on 23-5-2007 by angryamerican]