Two of ufology's finest attend IIIHS conference this weekend

a good old fashion greer credibility debate, rock in roll!

I'm almost done with his book and after reading so many similar threads, i think it's worth pointing out that Greer was always a new age guy. He was never a purely healthly skeptical scientific method professional no nonsense show me the money type of person only to change overnight.

So the Greer that is presenting himself publicly now, is the same person he was for the last 30 years (since his near death experience). So he hasn't really changed privately, it's just that only recently he's publically stated his real beliefs and methods.

Is it better to have an inhibitated public face and filter what you really think? Probably. (insert some moth comment here?)

Regarding who he 'claims' to have met with, the book has a really long list. I'm too lazy to post names, but a significant amount of high profile people in government/military and private sector. Enough high level people that if he is telling the truth it's extremely impressive. But who knows?

I would like to hear his most recent speaking engagement, so when this hits youtube, someone please post.

Judging from the type of conference it was, it will likely focus on new age, new paradigm, meditation, mystic type issues as oppossed to detailed stuff to convince skeptics on UFO's. So if you're looking for his plans on immenent disclosure or further credible evidence on UFO's it's probalby not in the video, but only one way to know for sure.....

According to one of his acolytes (so take it with a pinch of salt), Greer got a standing ovation following his presentation. Maybe he did levitate for the crowds after all!

Haven't heard what Morton's been up to but I'm sure the whole experience has been pretty predictable for him.

Originally posted by rocketsauce
Is it better to have an inhibitated public face and filter what you really think? Probably. (insert some moth comment here?)

rather than complain about the moth, please deal with it. Deal with the moth, please.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by rocketsauce
Is it better to have an inhibitated public face and filter what you really think? Probably. (insert some moth comment here?)

rather than complain about the moth, please deal with it. Deal with the moth, please.

Deal with it..... how, exactly?

Someone at CSETI (maybe not even Greer, maybe Debbie the webmaster or someone else) made a mistake and posted a picture that virtually everyone took to be a plain old ordinary moth.

When it was pointed out to her how silly that made CSETI look, she took the pics down again.

People are human, they make mistakes. But of course, the Greer-haters are never going to let them live this down; we'll likely be seeing pages and pages of moth jokes every time someone even mentions Greer's name, for years to come..... *sigh*

Sure the moth looks like a bad joke, and Greer seems to be out there to sell alot of books. One thing though, he still does alot for the field. More than any of you guys who continually bash him. I am not some fan boy of Greer, I have only watched the disclosure project but it blew me away. I have no clue what he has done since but that seminar has opened alot of people's eyes towards the subject. Alot of his witnesses I thought were very credible people, (my opinion of course, I did not do a complete background check on them) and I hope he continues to have them speak publically. Even if he profits, he is spreading the word. If you don't like it don't spend money on him, I know I don't.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by rocketsauce
Is it better to have an inhibitated public face and filter what you really think? Probably. (insert some moth comment here?)

rather than complain about the moth, please deal with it. Deal with the moth, please.

Thanks so much for the advice, with your great insight you were able to see I was unintentially soliciting advice, perhaps subliminally through my post. I was trying to figure out how to reconcile my existence on planet earth with Greer's moth picture and credibility, really a huge issue in my personal life that has been making me lose sleep.

However, your word's of wisdom have enabled me to get over the existential hump. "Deal with the Moth", Indeed. "If you build it they will come".

I'm going to go run 10 miles with this huge weight off my back...........

If there is one thing everyone should do before they die, it's "Deal With the Moth".

I'm on the fence about Greer, so not trying to argue anyone's credibility, just adding commentary particulary since I'm reading his book and it's fresh in mind.

Originally posted by millerman
Deal with it..... how, exactly?

The man frequently laments the existence of the moth by saying 'insert moth joke here' while rolling his eyes at how unfair it is (at least that's how I interpret his intent. If I'm off on this, I apologize)

Someone at CSETI (maybe not even Greer, maybe Debbie the webmaster or someone else) made a mistake and posted a picture that virtually everyone took to be a plain old ordinary moth.

When it was pointed out to her how silly that made CSETI look, she took the pics down again.

It was a plain old ordinary moth. That's the first time I've heard a reasonable explanation of this. Other times I've heard Greer supporters say we who think it was a plain old ordinary moth simply didn't understand how aetheric beings appear to mortals like us in disguise. As you can imagine, that explanation did not go down well. It shouldn't have. It betrays an amazing arrogance and contempt.

People are human, they make mistakes. But of course, the Greer-haters are never going to let them live this down; we'll likely be seeing pages and pages of moth jokes every time someone even mentions Greer's name, for years to come..... *sigh*

That's basically true, just like when Dan Quayle put his foot in his mouth time and again, people didn't let up on him. I heard him sigh once, too. He said he knew when he screwed up, but it was already out there on record and he couldn't take it back so he had to deal with it. He was basically rolling his eyes on himself in a moment of self-awareness.

However, you mis-characterize those of us who think Greer is a liability. I don't 'hate' Greer--at all, and it's unfair and wrong for you to characterize people who point out Greer's faults as "haters of Greer." That is simply untrue. You need to retract that kind of statement.

Greer can, of course, be and do as he pleases, but given his avowed mission, I think Greer had made a series of bad choices. And so have his followers. If the Greer Camp had come out immediately with the explanation you just gave, and said, "Hey, guys. Stupid move. Sorry. It wasn't even Greer who claimed that but a staffer got a little carried away." then I don't think there would have been a 'Moth Flap' at all. But rather than do that, the Greer Camp circled wagons and defended the moth. That was a stupid move. In terms of damage control, it did not work. It made the issue worse. If Greer had had a professional PR person, that never would have happened. That's not my fault. That's your fault (collectively.) So deal with the moth.

Greer is making extraordinary claims, therefore he must face scrutiny and a certain amount of investigation of who he says he is and what he is doing. Why? Because there is a trail of liars and bunco artists behind him. Time after time people have turned out to be not what they claimed, from Adamski to Lazar, from "Dr." Reed to "Dr." Burisch, from Billy Meier to Ricky Boylan. These people have been caught and found out, and though some still have their cadre of supporters, for all intents and purposes, they are done, finished, washed up. To those of us who have followed these cases, and in some cases been taken up by them for years, there is a certain pattern that emerges. Greer fits the pattern.

Greer has been saying a lot of things. He's mentioned a lot of people, some of whom are not happy he has done so and have been vocal about it (Woolsey, Petersen, and Edgar Mitchell.) He's kept a lot 'under cover' as 'secret.' Many claims have been refuted by the principles involved. Not much has happened over the last few years. That's why I say, vehemently,

Greer needs a win.

For Greer supporters to continually wring their hands about the unfairness of it all is not going to cut it. My hope is that Greer supporters will stop this cry-baby "Oh, dear!" remonstrating and go do something useful. Now would be a good time.

Originally posted by millerman
People are human, they make mistakes. But of course, the Greer-haters are never going to let them live this down; we'll likely be seeing pages and pages of moth jokes every time someone even mentions Greer's name, for years to come..... *sigh*

millerman, this was not just an ordinary mistake.

This was a deliberate attempt by Cult Greer to generate more funds by posting images of energy-anchor beings that looked like moths. Cult Greer needs the weak-minded, ample-pocket type of people who will support him on his quest.

millerman, you defended those pictures as being inconclusive - what's your opinion of them now that they have been removed from Cult Greer's website? It seems if you are conceeding that they were a mistake, then you might be prepared to believe that they really were moths and insects.

Believe me, the moth pictures were no joke. They were proof of fraudulent activity by Cult Greer.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by millerman
When it was pointed out to her how silly that made CSETI look, she took the pics down again.

It was a plain old ordinary moth. That's the first time I've heard a reasonable explanation of this. Other times I've heard Greer supporters say we who think it was a plain old ordinary moth simply didn't understand how aetheric beings appear to mortals like us in disguise. As you can imagine, that explanation did not go down well. It shouldn't have. It betrays an amazing arrogance and contempt.

Well, it is also arrogant to assume that we already know everything about all the different kinds of lifeforms out there. I mean, people have this tendency to assume that if ETs exist at all, that they must look like Greys or Reptilians or Klingons or the beings from "Aliens" or something like that.

Who's to say there aren't advanced, sentient, intelligent ET beings that resemble common Terran insects or moths? Who's to say that ETs or their spacecraft can't somehow phase shift into these sort of "energy orbs" like the one that was on Greer's shirt?

Who really knows for sure? Many of us haven't even seen a UFO in person, let alone made direct face-to-face contact with ET beings!

I'm not saying I believe that those pics were ETs, I'm just trying to point out, many of you refused to even consider the possibility..... which is kind of an odd and retrograde mindset for a bunch of people who are supposed to be "open-minded" enough to believe in UFOs and ETs!

However, you mis-characterize those of us who think Greer is a liability. I don't 'hate' Greer--at all, and it's unfair and wrong for you to characterize people who point out Greer's faults as "haters of Greer." That is simply untrue. You need to retract that kind of statement.

Well, I don't "need" to do anything.

For Greer supporters to continually wring their hands about the unfairness of it all is not going to cut it. My hope is that Greer supporters will stop this cry-baby "Oh, dear!" remonstrating and go do something useful. Now would be a good time.

LOL! The exact same thing can be said about the Greer haters! What have the haters accomplished lately besides a whole lot of ridicule and congratulatory back-patting?

Greer and TDP brought some extremely serious and urgent issues to our attention - like the klepto-nazi-fascist NWO elites purposely withholding critical technologies from the public and bringing our whole civilization to the brink of ruin - but it seems that a lot of people would rather spend their time and energy ridiculing Greer than trying to come up with a solution, which is something I find strange.....

Originally posted by rocketsauce

Originally posted by schuyler

rather than complain about the moth, please deal with it. Deal with the moth, please.

If there is one thing everyone should do before they die, it's "Deal With the Moth".

All that and you failed to deal with the question. You might want to leave the sarcasm alone, particularly when that is all you manage to put in a post. You make fun of the question and utterly fail to deal with it. Nice dodge if you can get away with it.

Oops! Didn't go away. You continually write (insert moth joke here) I take that to mean you don't like Mothra to be mentioned or that perhaps you think it's beside the point. Why is that? If you don't like Mothra, tell me what Mothra is! Tell me why it shouldn't count. The Greer Camp needs to give an accounting of Mothra that makes sense. It is not going to go away.

millerman suggests it was all just a big mistake. tezzajw, however, says it was a lot more than that and was a $ grab quite on purpose that backfired big time. But (insert moth joke here) is not conveying any useful information.

Have fun in your cult millerman. For a minute there I thought you were going to be reasonable. Your "mistake" message had a ring of authenticity to it. Now you're back defending Mothra. So you're back with the klepto-fascist bs, are you? I thought we might actually have a dialog going. Apparently not.

Now, in terms of DOING something, what has the Cult of Greer done lately? Answer #1: Zero. Answer #2: Hanging out with that fraud Morton. The Greer Cult is going downhill fast. Buh bye!

Originally posted by tezzajw
millerman, this was not just an ordinary mistake.

This was a deliberate attempt by Cult Greer to generate more funds by posting images of energy-anchor beings that looked like moths. Cult Greer needs the weak-minded, ample-pocket type of people who will support him on his quest.

Nonsense. If CSETI are so desperate for gullible customers and funds - then why do they barely market or advertise themselves at all?

We all know how salesmen on commission behave, how TV advertising tries to mind control us... If Greer is such a con artist and snake-oil salesman as you say - then why is it he barely even tries to sell the CSETI experience? Why is it they seem content to rely on positive word-of-mouth and they evidently don't give a crap what people on the internet say?

I have asked you these questions before and you completely and utterly failed to answer them then..... maybe you will answer them this time?

millerman, you defended those pictures as being inconclusive - what's your opinion of them now that they have been removed from Cult Greer's website?

My opinion of them is still that they were inconclusive. Perhaps they were removed because it was pointed out to Debbie that many people were ridiculing them. So at least Debbie cares slightly about what people from this site think, even if Greer doesn't.....

Believe me, the moth pictures were no joke. They were proof of fraudulent activity by Cult Greer.

No, they are not proof of anything.

Originally posted by schuyler
millerman suggests it was all just a big mistake. tezzajw, however, says it was a lot more than that and was a $ grab quite on purpose that backfired big time.

Well, I think that's absurd.

If it had been a serious attempt at advertising the CSETI experience, they would have posted far more compelling evidence, and advertised and promoted it all over the internet.

Instead, they post this little unobtrusive link on the CSETI home page, "Selected pictures from 2006 trainings", with barely even a peep over the rest of the internet.

It seems more like Debbie just felt like posting some pictures for whatever reason, or she was asked to, and she posted those ones without realizing it would harm Greer and CSETI's credibility. She is human, just like the rest of us, and she made a mistake....

Originally posted by schuyler
Have fun in your cult millerman.

You are completely wrong and ignorant in calling CSETI a cult, just like everyone else that does. In a real cult - you're not allowed to leave!

And I am not even a CSETI member myself! So zark off.

For a minute there I thought you were going to be reasonable. Your "mistake" message had a ring of authenticity to it. Now you're back defending Mothra. So you're back with the klepto-fascist bs, are you?

Oh yes - except that there's SO much evidence for NWO, and the suppression of technology, that you are demonstrating amazing ignorance by calling it BS. I mean, did you even watch the NPC conference? Have you done any research at all into "Free" energy or anti-gravity?

I keep talking about the NWO klepto-fascists - because they are THE REAL ENEMY. You know, the people that we should be focusing our time and energy on dealing with, instead of witch-hunting Greer, who is ON OUR SIDE.

I thought we might actually have a dialog going. Apparently not.

You expect to have a reasonable dialogue while you equate me with a cultist? You want to have a reasonable dialogue - stop attacking my character and intelligence like that.

millerman, what is your status with the Greer organization (in any of its guises)? You seem to be on a first name basis with the webmaster of CSETI, so I'm just curious. Are you employed by them in any way, volunteer or paid? Since you spout Greer-speak so well I was just interested in how close you were to the organization. Do you support the organization financially?

originally by millerman
I don't need to do anything.

Quite. How silly of me. I should have said "you should retract it." You are, however, engaging in libelous behavior. You persist in name-calling by saying "Greer haters" when I have specifically told you that is not true and laid out chapter and verse exactly why. I told you repeatedly I thought Greer has made some bad moves. By no stretch of the imagination can you translate that to "hating Greer." That is completely absurd.

I don't need to do anything.

And you respond this way. That's petulant at best. I expect better of a grown-up.

You must be quite frustrated, and perhaps that accounts for your jekyl and hyde behavior on this board. (1. Mothra was a mistake. 2. He could be an ET. You don't know. The Universe is vast. 3. Mothra was a mistake. For god's sake, make up your mind.) Greer hasn't done anything useful in years. Disclosure is not only no closer than it was in 2001, it's further away as Greer has self-destructed. So far Greer has given us nothing but smoke and mirrors, promises and abject speculation that has yielded nothing.

But for the Cult of Greer, that may be enough, but for the rest of us, it's put up or shut up time.



[edit on 7-5-2007 by schuyler]

Originally posted by millerman
My opinion of them is still that they were inconclusive. Perhaps they were removed because it was pointed out to Debbie that many people were ridiculing them. So at least Debbie cares slightly about what people from this site think, even if Greer doesn't.....

So that's all a speculative paragraph with no factual basis, right?

You don't know who amongst Cult Greer put the moth pictures there and you don't know who took them down. However, we do know that the CSETI website is a part of Cult Greer, so the fact that the moth pictures were there, with Leader Greer in them, means that they were fully supported, as being true aliens at that time by Cult Greer.

Why you would want to put words into Debbie's mouth?

Perhaps, with the help of a new, professional publicist (damn, wrong thread), Cult Greer will be able to coordinate all of its media and marketing events. It should expect a new influx of Initiates after this latest recruiting drive that Leader Greer has just finished preaching to.

Originally posted by schuyler
millerman, what is your status with the Greer organization (in any of its guises)? You seem to be on a first name basis with the webmaster of CSETI, so I'm just curious. Are you employed by them in any way, volunteer or paid? Since you spout Greer-speak so well I was just interested in how close you were to the organization. Do you support the organization financially?

I have no relationship with Greer or any of his organizations beyond the fact that I sent Debbie an email, and she responded and signed off with "Debbie". Which is why I now feel comfortable referring to her on a first name basis.

You know, you should really try directing your concerns to her at [email protected] . If you are polite and serious and cogent about it, I am sure she will answer you as she did me. But treating her like a cultist likely won't get you very far, just like it doesn't get you very far with people like me.

I don't need to do anything.

Quite. How silly of me. I should have said "you should retract it." You are, however, engaging in libelous behavior. You persist in name-calling by saying "Greer haters" when I have specifically told you that is not true and laid out chapter and verse exactly why.

LOL! Calling you a Greer hater is libelous? Sue me!

How about Greer naysayer then?

I don't need to do anything.

And you respond this way. That's petulant at best. I expect better of a grown-up.

No, it's not petulant. You say I need to do something. I'm telling you, I don't need to do anything. I'm not being petulant, I'm just telling you the truth.

You must be quite frustrated, and perhaps that accounts for your jekyl and hyde behavior on this board. (1. Mothra was a mistake. 2. He could be an ET. You don't know. The Universe is vast. 3. Mothra was a mistake. For god's sake, make up your mind.)

Well, Mothra was a mistake if they care about what people on the internet think. But evidently, they don't, probably because of all the cred they get from word-of-mouth networking.

But I agree in that if they want huge cred on the internet, they should really post some knockout footage of CE-5s. Greer and CSETI definitely haven't taken advantage of the full power of the internet to get their evidence out.

Greer hasn't done anything useful in years. Disclosure is not only no closer than it was in 2001, it's further away as Greer has self-destructed.

So events like former Canadian Minister of Defense Paul Hellyer publicly supporting Greer and speaking out about the UFO coverup, and Monsignor Balducci admitting to the existence of ETI, and France opening their UFO files to the public, and other countries following suit.... those things mean that Disclosure is further away......?

It seems to me like things are picking up!

Again, just because Greer hasn't had a breakthrough accomplishment on the level of the NPC conference in 6 years, doesn't mean he hasn't been busy behind the scenes rallying more support for disclosure. Just because he doesn't tape every little thing he does and post it on the internet for the skeptics' benefit, doesn't mean he isn't doing useful things.

I mean, if he doesn't have another breakthrough accomplishment in 2, or 3, or 5 years - are we going to spend that time making OURSELVES useful and rallying support in our own way, or are we going to spend it ridiculing Greer because CSETI posted a moth-like picture?

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by millerman
My opinion of them is still that they were inconclusive. Perhaps they were removed because it was pointed out to Debbie that many people were ridiculing them. So at least Debbie cares slightly about what people from this site think, even if Greer doesn't.....

So that's all a speculative paragraph with no factual basis, right?

You don't know who amongst Cult Greer put the moth pictures there and you don't know who took them down.
...
Why you would want to put words into Debbie's mouth?

It was Debbie who took them down, she told me this in her email response to me. See the "Greer releases UFO photographs" thread.

So if it was Debbie who took them down..... it's fairly reasonable to assume that she also put them up.

Originally posted by millerman
It was Debbie who took them down, she told me this in her email response to me. See the "Greer releases UFO photographs" thread.

So if it was Debbie who took them down..... it's fairly reasonable to assume that she also put them up.

My apologies, millerman. Debbie took them down. Ok, I must have missed it. That's fine, I can admit to a mistake.

It's not reasonable to assume anything when referring to Cult Greer though. We don't know if Debbie put them up or not.

I never like to assume anything, unless I know that if I see something in a picture that looks like a moth, then it is a moth.

Originally posted by millerman

LOL! Calling you a Greer hater is libelous? Sue me!

I have no intention of even thinking about something like that, but under the circumstances it remains libelous.

How about Greer naysayer then?

Okay. I can go for that.

So events like former Canadian Minister of Defense Paul Hellyer publicly supporting Greer and speaking out about the UFO coverup, and Monsignor Balducci admitting to the existence of ETI, and France opening their UFO files to the public, and other countries following suit.... those things mean that Disclosure is further away......?

Yep. Hellyer is a howler and a very late bloomer. He didn't 'learn' any of what he says as a minister. He read Corso's book and went ape after showing up at a conference in Hawaii. People are trying to say this is something big. Even the Canadians say he is a loser. So on examination, that's not much. No.

France let some files out. The Blue Book files are already online. Britain let some files out. I don't think the files are significant. Are the Blue Book files? Of course not. Anything significant they'll keep under wraps.

The Cometa files. Now that's something and SHOULD have made a huge splash. It didn't. Ho hum. India might be a sleeper here and I think we need to keep our eye out for what happens there--not that Greer has anything to do with it.

or are we going to spend it ridiculing Greer because CSETI posted a moth-like picture?

Unfortunately, it's more than just Mothra. Throw Mothra out and you're still in the same place. No need to repeat. (We are also cross-posting a bit--guess that's inevitable if we're on at the same time.)