Is the time for secession here?

It is obvious that there are insurmountable differences in certain areas of throughout the United States that will never be solved through acts of legislation. The states and their rights have become almost nonexistant in the face of Federal authority. The Constitution is all but ignored the fact that the states themselves are sovriegn and they have certain rights that the founding fathers ordained them with.

It is becoming increasingly apparent that Federal rule has an agenda to strip the citizen and the state they live in from any self governing authority. They will not stop until all fifty states are nothing more that a figurehead for revenue to fund their nation building kabal they have been so feverently following since the American civil war. Spilling American blood and resources to instill a US Federal clone government abroad with no authority of the states to object is treasonous under the original intent of the founding fathers.

The Messiahnic "We know what's right for all of you" rant that both parties have pursued for over 150 years at the expense of citizens without a real say will end in the dissolution of the right of a state to decide the fate of its' people. A Patriot is an invaluable resource that should not be squandered lightly and I think it is high time to reevaluate the relationship between the citizen and the Federal beast that is using the Constitution and States' rights to wipe their boots with.

Very compelling words spoken (written), shai hulud.

I am afraid that I haven't got much to add, except it's nice to see more and more people realizing that their rights, liberties, and freedoms are on the chopping block and the rate at which they are being trampled is very overwhelming at times.

The only way to get back what is our is to speak up for it, first. There have been numerous occasions that I've tried to speak with people and all I get the "I don't care" or "I'm not into politics" idealism from them.

Unfortunately, people will not react until something directly effects them. The fabric of this nation has been forgotten by way too many. And by fabric of this nation, I refer to you... I... us... We, the People.

The Rights of this nation are guaranteed to the people by the United States Constitution. Of which the same thing, the Constitution, serves to be a limit on the powers enable by us to the US Federal Government.

Until everyone, nationwide, realize that... I'm afraid we're chasing our tails. A few good men may do good speaking up, but it's going to take the whole populous to take back what is rightfully ours.

Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately, you are right. It will take something of cataclysmic proportions for the American populace to stand up. Even then I have my doubts. When I speak of secession, I do not mean it in the "North" vs "South" mentality (although my area has had some experience in that in the past), but more of citizens of a state rebelling against the Federal tyranny that exists. Hopefully this could be done through peaceful means.

This is where the second ammendment comes in. Regardless of your opinion of this heated issue, only a lemming would put their trust in the Federal government to decide what is go for them with no recourse. I really see a crackdown coming on all rights, not just bearing arms. Freedom of speech will still be allowed, as long as it "correct thought".

You've hit the nail on the head, shai hulud. The Federal Government is "beating feet" to turn America into a police state. And you summed that up perfectly with your last comment, "as long as it is *correct thought*".

As for our Second Amendment... I am trying my damnedest to resort to peaceful means by writing letters and speaking with my Congressional representatives. I have probably got my name/number/email/address on their speed dial in Washington...but...

(To those in Governmental seats).. Don't think for one moment that I'm going to just roll over and play dead while you trample over my rights.


"I am both fully capable, and willing, to fight to the death for the Rights, Liberties, and Freedoms guaranteed to me, and my fellow American citizens, by the Constitution of the United States of America, against enemies... both foreign, and domestic."

[edit on 4/30/2007 by Infoholic]

You can be rest assured that you are not alone when it comes to the info they have on quite a few of us. Any organized movement for secession of any state or even provinces within a state would be met with severe reprocussions. The Federal government will pull out every stop when it comes to their revenue and power base.

As a side note, it is a fact that the Confederate States of America (no matter which side you agree with, just for the arguement of secession) never surrendered the CSA goverment. Only the army of VA surrendered.
Technically a state of war still exists between the two governments. Try standing up in court with that one. You would be stricken from the list of history in absolute Orwellian fashion.

Well Im no Rambo lol but I'm in too. I can't just sit back and watch this unfold. We have a right as citzens to put our government back in its place. But this isn't a fight against slavery. Its a fight between good and evil. And we all know who the evil is.

Well spoken, slavery was a foolish and Godless institution, which is why the Federal government still had their hands in the foreign slave trade well into the 1880's, after the CSA banned the importation of slaves in 1861 .

But I do not want this thread to degenerate into a "slavery and old south" rant. This is about free citizens of free states. The most dangerous beasts that have basically rewritten the Constitution to fit the global "dogoodery" at the ctizens expense were FDR, Lincoln, Clinton and Bush II. Say what you want about their politics, my main problem is that they turned the Federal government into an almost unstoppable hydra that is destroying individual rights. With the "there ain't no end to doing right" mantra has cost us our rights and spilled our blood across the globe in exchange for football and American Idol. Our culture of a free society is slowly being bred away through constant dependence on an all powerful government.

You can almost hear it "Don't worry we know what is best for you, go back to sleep"

Theft with Lawful(?) Intent

the thread above over-laps this thread nicely.
The erosion of liberties is growing at an appalling rate.
I for one think that weapons banning is the next step in assuring that when sit x occurs, we will be helpless and will [B]be forced to look to our tormentors for protection[/B]. Boy does that sound scary seeing it in type.

Originally posted by shai hulud
The most dangerous beasts that have basically rewritten the Constitution to fit the global "dogoodery" at the ctizens expense were FDR, Lincoln, Clinton and Bush II.

Im always amazed by how many people will rise up to defend Lincoln just because he used an end to slavery to justify his totalitarian push with the federal government. It was nothing less than petty thugery what he did.
He proved any dissenting voice would be promptly squashed with brute force and no matter what the cost the federal government would not allow a loss of complete control.

The very act should have inspired more rebellion. If killing terrorists makes more terrorists than the so-called Civil war shouldve made anybody with the least bit of admiration for liberty stand up and fight the tyranny.

The North/South slavery that people constantly relate to secession and the Confederacy in my opinion is a moot point. It was on its way out before the war. Global restrictions and a rise in Southern abolitionists showed the practice had little time left. It was federal controls and taxation that they were rebelling against. Not the right to enslave people. Lincoln had to make his point of a federal order at an opportune time and used slavery to justify it and to forever hide the truth from history.

Ive been wathching the New Hampshire Free State Project as our best hope to make a stand. They seem to be making progress everyday.
www.freestateproject.org

God bless'em.

Absolutely Watcher, an unarmed populace is nothing more than fodder for the Federal meat grinder. Once the only recourse for a common defense is taken away, then there is nothing left to stop it. We here in America (most parts anyway) are in a unique position to hold back what is coming.
The vast proliferation of weapons in the hands of law abiding free citizens is unique only to this part of the world. Hopefully it will never come to that, bloodshed would be a catastrophe. On the otherhand, it may be the only trump card we have.

Excellent points Thisguy, you would be suprised at the amount of disinformation that exisits in the cesspool that has become the public education system. The atrocities that the original tyrant Lincoln committed in the name of brotherhood almost cost him the loyalty of half the Northern states. At least back then people would put up with far less than they do now. He should have been brought up for treason and war crimes for what he did to the Irish, but I guess even fate works out sometimes.

Shai although I do agree with your views on our
current government, i do feel that sucession would
not be the correct choice of actions.

Here is why.....

Any state that tries to succeed from the U.S. would
only be labeled as a rogue state, a territory full of
"enemy combatants" under the Patriot Act.
And the citizens that did stay and support this would
only end up loosing the freedoms they desired to protect
in the first place, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

In my opinion the only way that we could get our country
back is to hold these "officials" to the oath of office they
took when entering their position and apply legal penalties
and removal of office when breaking the oath.

Take a look at my previous thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

The citizens of this fine nation that do care about
preserving our rights and freedoms should pass the word.
Hopefully if this idea gains support it will be the way we get
back to the country and freedoms that we love

Originally posted by Patriot36

And the citizens that did stay and support this would
only end up loosing the freedoms they desired to protect
in the first place, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

This is interesting. Certainly secession would make those involved with the seperation no longer able to call upon the Bill of Rights but it doesnt mean that somehow magically they no longer have these rights. Unless the entity they chose to seceed under demanded a lovel of control under which these freedoms did not exist.

If I refuse to give into America's law then I havent given up any freedoms. If anything I have gained freedoms. The catch is when the government comes to put me in line. The only way they could so this is by force or capture and imprisonment.

The freedoms we all have are God given. Any law established by man only limits freedoms.

So just because the seceeded may no longer live with the Bill of Rights it doesnt mean they have lost the freedom to speak, assemble, or bear arms.
It does, however, mean that the United States does not have to recognize whatever freedoms they may claim. Then invasion into the seceeded territory and force would be the only way the United States to eforce their law over the seceeded land.

I guess it all comes down to whether or not the seceeded are willing to suffer capture, imprisonment and death for their chosen way of life. Essentially, war.

Patriot, I respect your opinion and I do agree that any one state or a group of states declaring secession from the United States would be considered a "terrorist group" under the Patriot act and that is in fact, an act of war against it's own populace. This in itself is uconstitutional jast as the last "civil war" was. The only recourse would be a constitutional referendum made up of a group of states that leagally vote themselves out of the current Union. This alone would bring so much fear and make the Federal government so uneasy, they would more than likely take military action against a group of states that have followed Constitutional law. This would be a very unpopular move, and could be the catalyst to a violent separation.

Like Thisguy said, it would be war. Does the common citizen have the stomach for that on their own soil anymore?

www.youtube.com...
I will stand tall (to the death) to protect my constitutional rights, and I would consider myself to be a near Rambo. I have lots of friends that feel the same way.
The only diplomatic solution to an bloated federal gov't is if we can elect Ron Paul pres. in 08'. He is the only one running that will dissolve the Fed, income taxes on labor, and crush the North American Union.

If we fail in 08' i believe we will be involved in a new civil war shortly there after. When martial law is declared and our constitution is repealed, it is time to go on the offensive.

Here is what will unfortunately happen at that point...... All the stupid cops and national guard that decide to go ahead with the gun confiscations will be laying dead in the streets in short order. (keep in mind that they swore to uphold our constitution, when they no longer are doing that they are committing treason) Then UN peace keepers will be dispatched, but they are easy targets (look for foreigners with blue helmets). After they are eliminated, we the people win!! And we can be free at the same level as pre-1913 in this country.

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This sounds more like it should be in the Rant section, rather than political conspiracies. What is the specific conspiracy? There are no examples that you've given of how state government is losing its power to federal agencies. Is there a specific point that you have or is this just an overall rant?

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Ive been wathching the New Hampshire Free State Project as our best hope to make a stand. They seem to be making progress everyday.
www.freestateproject.org

God bless'em.

Vermont has a movement too:
www.vermontrepublic.org... (unfortunately login required)

en.wikipedia.org...

Ron Paul is a very interesting canidate, unfortunately anyone with a real shot at dissolving the Beast and all its' tentacles will probably have an
"accident". The thought of UN troops running the steets is almost laughable. Most urban gangs and rural citizens are better armed than the blue helmets. Indeed a chilling thought once the crackdown begins.

Note: I apologize if this is in the wrong topic section as it is only my second thread. As far as a political conspiracy, I am trying to tie the Federal governments last real roadblock to total domination is the dissolving the right for a state to govern itself and disagree with Federal policy without being invaded. Please move if it needs to be and forgive the rants. It was not my intention.

Originally posted by whargoul

Vermont has a movement too:
www.vermontrepublic.org... (unfortunately login required)

en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks for the info, Ill have to check it out. These poor guys certainly have an uphill battle, electing a Socialist governor and all makes me think VT is all about big government and federal love.

O P I too think that the time to act is now, before the situation becomes worse. Yet, it is not we who have succeeded, but the government that has pulled away from the Constitution. In that sense any state, or group that, that remained in line and spirit with the Constitution would in fact be the representing 'body politic' of the United States of America. Because it was not in violation, legally, it would be the true government of this nation.

However there would be hell to pay over such a move, and the force of arms would have to settle the matter.

There is a dangerous non-violent way. If an existing local or state government would refuse to turn over tax revenues, and secure them in such a way that the Federals could not access them,this would raise a legal dispute that could be a catalyst for the common people. Then show just cause for not giving the taxpayers money to an unlawful form of government. While risky, it would avoid open warfare and force the current form of government to defend itself. The 'court of world opinion would be brought into play on this one.

Just a thought.

And thank you shadow for having read my last thread. I am uncertain why it did not seem to strike a cord with as many people as my first one.???