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Is the time for secession here?

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posted on May, 1 2007 @ 10:47 AM
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*cough*West Virginia*cough* Unless of course the Union actually recognised the CSA and Virginia not being part of the Union.

But at the time of the Revolution John Adams estimated that 1/3 were for independence, 1/3 were loyal to the crown and the final 1/3 were neutral. If you were to act now, assuming you could raise a significant force of about 100,000+, you might be able to garner the support of 5-7% of the American people at the most but more likely 2-4%.

As for the powers that Bush has gained from the War on Terror. No one seeking office or might eventually seek office wants those powers taken away as they would have them as well. That is the scary reality. 2008 will be the most important election since 1860 for our future. If America drops the ball this time, then maybe those 2012 predictions might not be that far off the ball.




posted on May, 1 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Ahabstar
As for the powers that Bush has gained from the War on Terror. No one seeking office or might eventually seek office wants those powers taken away as they would have them as well. That is the scary reality. 2008 will be the most important election since 1860 for our future. If America drops the ball this time, then maybe those 2012 predictions might not be that far off the ball.


If anyone seeking office would like to have those powers (in my opinion they would seek to add even more just as every President has) then wouldnt the 2008 elections be pointless? Far from being the 'most important' at least.

Unless of course someone like Ron Paul could actually win but the powers that be wouldnt allow it. They need a Clinton or a Bush or someone like Obama or Romney who will just keep the NWO train rolling right along.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:33 AM
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I have a question just out of curiosity....
If in fact your state were to seceed, would you still expect the federal government to send federal aid in the case of a disaster?



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Far from being the 'most important' at least.


Not the "most" important, but important none the less. If you look at a listing of all executive orders made by President Bush, you'll see that the total orders signed by him nearly number the total for all others combined.

Executive Orders

But the idea of "expanding powers" is a great concern for all, since the Constitution was made to limit powers of the Federal Government. So you can see, the idea of building and keeping those powers are of great importance.

[edit on 5/1/2007 by Infoholic]



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by thelibra
If we can't even get half the nation to vote, then certainly America isn't ready for revolution.


i disagree. i would say that the less people whom believe their vote is worth a damn, the more ready we are for revolt.

also, from a simpleton's point of view: it rarely occurrs to me, and i find it quite fascinating to consider, that the constitution is written enabling States as sovereign entities.

considering that point alone, it seems starkly obvious how far we have wandered from it's original intent.

poor, poor americans. we are so cornfused. >>>WAKE UP!!!



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by closettrekkie
I have a question just out of curiosity....
If in fact your state were to seceed, would you still expect the federal government to send federal aid in the case of a disaster?


I dont understand why federal is dished out anyway. The money was ours before they decided to take it from us. And any disaster that happens isnt exactly taken care of by federal money or federal agencies. When the fed gets involved there follows immense waste. Each new instince of federal aid wasting more than the last.

F federal aid. We wouldnt need their 'assistance' if they didnt steal our property in the first place. The fed is like a big pimp and we're all a bunch of stupid ho's. They shake us down for money and tell us we need protection from something so what they dont steal we gladly hand over.

Its a big ol feudalist lie thet we need the fed for anything.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:47 AM
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I agree with you, the only reason I asked that is because quite often I find that a lot of the people that scream secession or revolution are also the same people that scream "why didn't the fed help out more in Katrina" or "why don't we have national healthcare?"

Just wondering if that all was thought through.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:51 AM
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This is the nonviolent means to get
back to having a government that respects
the ideas and principles our country
was founded on.

Please take the time to read this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by closettrekkie
"why don't we have national healthcare?"


We don't have "national healthcare" because our tax monies are squandered inappropriately. Hence, the Federal Reserve.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by closettrekkie

Just wondering if that all was thought through.
Okay, I can respect that sort of inquiry and its completely warranted. I too wonder if half of the people who support one cause of action or another have really thought it through or if theyre just a bunch of angsty kids who dont know what theyre getting into.

This is why I believe in complete independence. If each of us were capable of raising and preparing livestock, food, repairing and manufacturing basic and other basic skills that society has all but forgotten we'd be a better and stronger country as a whole. People dont understand real work, real sacrifice, real abundance, real pain. Even the poor of this country are living lives full of abundance by my standards. How many people with cable tv, a car and air conditioning claim poverty? Its ridiculous. If you have anything at all be thankful and treat it as a blessing because it could and very may will be gone tomorrow.

There is far too much dependence inside these borders and it makes us weak and easy to defeat. The last thing anyone should have been doing after Katrina was complaining. There was far too much work to do for each of the people living there and all who volunteered their skills, money and time for there to be any complaining. But alas, the 'I want my Xbox and I want it now' mentality is dug in very well. Hell, it isnt even a question of want anymore. Now people feel they are entitled. Its disgusting.

Live everyday like youre the only one looking out for you and youll survive when everything collapses.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:31 PM
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ThisGuy - I completely agree with everything you just said. I have had to work hard for what I have and have lived most of my life without such luxury.

I also wonder if some of the kids on this website just hear all of the common rants and like to spout it just to sound cool and intellectual. I don't know if some of them realize how hard it would be for a state to seceed. (None of this is referring to the OP - just generalization). Seceeding from the union would mean no federal aid whatsoever. No disaster relief, no national healthcare (although I think national healthcare is a bad idea anyway), no federal funding for schools, military, etc. Your state's citizens would be responsible for all of that funding. Most wouldn't be able to afford that so they'd move. Then what???

Just something to think about.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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I dont know how relevant this is to the topic but, not only Americans are concerned with developements in the USA. I read this article in the British Press from the Guardian newspaper.........
www.guardian.co.uk...

Disturbing to say the least, and not without consequences for all of us if any of this goes much further.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:49 PM
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I thought that after the civil war there were parameters put in place to prevent the secession of any state from the Union. Part of the conditions of surrender for the South were that each individual state would forfeit their right of secession in return for re-entry into the Union.

I understand that secession isn't being used in that sense, but I was just wondering what you all thought would be accomplished by the actions being suggested here. The states, the people, no longer have any dominion over any of the military branches as they did in times past, where there was no true federal army, rather each state pitching in their own "armies".

I too wish for change, but this simply doesn't come across as a viable option.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
I'm not scared. I am an American.


I'm in complete agreement. I guess I phrased it wrong. I didn't mean "each day americans...", I mean "everyday-americans". As in common americans are scared of the truth. Obviously you care about the laws and bills that are written in congress, so that makes you an un-common american.

And I still beleive them to be scared of the truth. Why else would they continue to ignore what the government has done over the past 2 terms? I think if the president came on national television and told americans, "Now in this article we are able to tap your phones, read your emails and keep records of what you buy and the tv shows that you watch ... and if we decide we don't like what you're talking about,or buying, or watching, we're going throw you in jail – no questions asked. You have no right to a lawyer." I think americans most americans would be angry. I beleive most americans are frightened to doubt their government. I guess it comes down to being lazy as well. Scared they'd have to get off their asses and say something against their beloved president.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 12:57 PM
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The government is the provider, our defender, our keeper. To doubt them would be risking that safety and security, so most people choose to blindly follow and accept what is said, as opposed to facing the possibility that the people you've charged with your safety and well being are the same ones working to destroy you.

The truth is never an easy thing to confront, and I think you are unfair in saying the "Average American". The "Average American" has been taught to behave this way since elementary school. The "Average American" oft has no other choice but to believe. The "Average American" oft doesn't have the resources available to them in order to discover the truth.

The "Average American" is not at fault here. In order to reveal the truth we must first destroy that which is preventing it from being told in the first place, and that's certainly not the "Average American".



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by tyranny22
Why else would they continue to ignore what the government has done over the past 2 terms?


1) Apathy
2) Survivor (I guess that falls under #1)
3) Road Rules (again, #1)
4) Ignorance (not everyone's into politics, unfortunately)



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 02:30 PM
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Conquiatsdork: The "Average American" has been taught to behave this way since elementary school.

I too think this is true.
I dont feel special knowing that there is more than this than the media lets on to. I feel lucky that my rebellious nature causes me to question authority constantly. Sadly, this tends to land me in trouble when I should not speak but do anyway. If the average American has the data presented to him and he rejects it, then shame on him. I dont condemn a person for not yet waking up.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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Wow excellent posts here! It is good to see free thinkers agree and disagree. I believe all of us here are quite unhappy with the state of the Union or else we would not be posting here. It is just that some of us disagree on how to go about changing things.

I have voted in every election since I was legally able, and the only thing I see is a steady decline of individual rights as a nation. Another thing that I would like to bring up is that there are undeniable cultural differences within the United States that I do not belive that will ever be resolved. Just look at the last voting map from 2004. It is almost identical to the battles lines drawn during the civil war. There is nothing more I as a free citizen (somewhat for now) would like more than true Patriots to come together as a group, but that will be extremely hard to do.
Take a blue collar worker from the South, North, Midwest and West and the only thing they will agree on is that they are all getting the shaft. That is probably where the common ground will end.

Regaining control of this representative republic (no this is not a democracy) may be too late. As the borders dissappear under Bush's treasonous lack of attention and the left wanting to hand over the Constitution as well, what do we do? Take back the country and get over our differences or declare independence from the cancer that will consume this country in less than 25 years...if we are lucky.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 09:48 PM
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There seems to be two views here, and I am in the one that holds that we need to change what we have, rather than start over. Granted, what we have is not ideal, or even good, but like a marriage, it is for better or worse.

But, and this is a big BUT, there are limits. Just as in a marriage, while one may be long suffering, there are limits. Our nation is now reaching the limit of allowable tolerance with our 'spouse'.

How often do we say that there is no need for a woman to remain in a marriage where her husband abuses her? Do we not feel that for the sake of her children, if for no other reason, she should get out from under such oppression? Then how are we as citizens so different? Are we not being daily abused by the government? Do our leaders not act as if our wishes were of no importance? Are we not subject to 'corrective' measures at the whim of those we work and provide for? Are we not, in the end analysis, whores who sell our bodies daily to provide income for our political pimps, while they enjoy the fruits of our labor?

I too am not for revolt, nor for separation. Yet, if the direction of the ship of state does not alter, I can see no other option. The founding fathers also tried all means available for redress till the only path left was revolution. How much more abuse should this nation take, before action, no matter how abhorrent, must be taken?

If men do not now take it as their personal cause to change this tyranny by the ballot, then it will come to arms. Revolt is in the air.



posted on May, 2 2007 @ 09:50 PM
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Perpetual civil war (the civil war in Iraq will end soon after America withdraws) is even worse than the status quo so I will answer OP's question in the negative.





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