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Is the time for secession here?

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posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 02:14 PM
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Revolution... YES!!! I think we all know what succession has wrought - simply look at the outcome of the civil war. No, succession is NOT the answer dear friends. Revolution is the key that will unlock the shackles that we are being fitted with. We are slipping under totalitarian regime affording no civil liberties or freedoms. We are being sold down the proverbial river.

Soon, and perhaps even soon is too late, the masses will wake up and realize that they have been sold into indentured servitude - then God help us all!




posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by shai hulud

Note: I apologize if this is in the wrong topic section as it is only my second thread. As far as a political conspiracy, I am trying to tie the Federal governments last real roadblock to total domination is the dissolving the right for a state to govern itself and disagree with Federal policy without being invaded. Please move if it needs to be and forgive the rants. It was not my intention.


It's quite alright, I just would like to see some links to proof that show the federal government is dissolving the right for a state to govern itself. So far this is just all because you say so....
Not trying to be difficult, but I hear so many of these rants without any proof to back anything up. I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking you to be more specific please.

ps. Welcome! You do write very eloquently!



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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Although denying Federal funds would really send a message that a state means business, I am pretty sure that the Feds would bring the hammer down more than ever. A very good point, but look what they do to, of all people, moonshiners. Just the relatively small tax revenue that they could collect is enough to call in the Bureau of Arson Torture and Fraud. Ever see what they do to criminals that rob (or at least attempt to) a Federal Reserve Bank? A great idea if it could be done through legislation.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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Thanks Trekkie and I appreciate your kind words. Since I am out the door almost to give 40% of my taxes to the great IRS I do not have time to do a little more research and proof. I will though (frankly I did not think anyone would reply
)



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 02:24 PM
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Good call. I am all for a non violent means of repealling the federal reserve act of 1913, and seeing the ethics of good people "crush" the capitalist war game. Hopefully, we can spread the truth fast enough.

HOWEVER:

Truth is not believed until it is proven. So let's see a topic showing detailed representations of the loss of liberty. Then I will print them on flyers and pass them out. I'll even start a website to promote it.

Just know that the average stupid american soccer mom (or the like) will not believe anything outside of buying things to feel happy/successful. So the only way is to provide clear evidence in a concise manner to allow them to feel the change that we did when we once learned of the failings of the Fed, or even the idea of 9/11 being an inside job.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 02:42 PM
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I'm no soccer mom, but what's wrong with a little therapy via shopping? Woo hoo! It's cured many a blue day.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 03:09 PM
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12SeVeN34, did you read the thread on unlawful intent posted above? What does it take to prove that the Federal Rats are not infringing on the rights of a free citizen? If You own something, in this case your home, and I make you sell it, even though I give you money for it, that is still wrong. What is freedom if someone in government can seize your private property, and then give that property to another private citizen.

This isn't for the public good, it's for another person's good.

The OP was trying to point out how the Feds overstep their right to decide for the individual what is right and wrong. They want to be your daddy. Get it?

The Fed will tell you what to own, what to wear, when to put on safety devices, how much sugar to consume, how often to go to the toilet, and which food groups to buy. And one Supreme Court ruling at a time, that is happening.

By the time most people notice it will be far too late to use non-violent methods to regain our liberty. But then it is a long standing failure of humans to never look beyond today's news.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 03:16 PM
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Actually I believe the OP's topic was how the federal government is taking the state's right to govern themselves.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 04:35 PM
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Actually I was touching on both issues. The Federal government has started dissolving the states' ability to have little more than an opinion and nothing to back it up if they disagree. Once they have completely dissolved any idea of state soveriegnty, they will move on to personal soveriegnty. I see both issues connected to a common argument.

One could also argue the fact that secession is a form of revolution, but secession, in idea, should be a much less bloody affair if both sides are reasonable and sane. I think we all know that does not apply with the Federal government now anymore than it did in 1861. There were warhawks on both sides, just as there are now. I do believe the cultural divide between the sheep of a tyrannical system and a Constitutional Patriot are too vast to decide through pointless ballots for the same beasts.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by 12SeVeN34
So let's see a topic showing detailed representations of the loss of liberty. Then I will print them on flyers and pass them out. I'll even start a website to promote it.


Unfortunately, it's against the t&c here at ATS to promote another website, and unfortunately, it's also against the t&c here at ATS to cross post. So...

...Here's a list of some bills that have been signed into law, that are relevant to everyone's day to day lives, of which our rights, liberties, and freedoms have been affected. These issues have been depicted as very controversial from many sources.

H.R. 1268 - Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief, 2005 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)
- This bill includes a section that was once the Real ID Act.

H.R. 3162 - Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)
- This bill includes the official definition of a "domestic terrorist" that very well could encompass everyone.

H.R. 3930 - Military Commissions Act of 2006 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)
- This bill authorizes trial by military commission for violations of the law of war, and for other purposes.

H.R. 5122 - John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)
- This bill authorizes the President of the United States to declare Martial Law on the United States of American, and allows the President to bypass the Posse Comitatus Act.

Need we go on?

[edit on 4/30/2007 by Infoholic]



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Nice finds Info, I myself am wondering when the Federal government is going to completely do away with the Posse Comitatus Act officially, since they ignore it on an almost daily basis. I do not think that when the Act was passed that the authors of that law meant for it to be acceptable for
"jackbooted ninjas" be able to kick in a citizens door on the basis of hearsay if they find the right judge. As long as they are not "military", but paramilitary is acceptable.

The states need to get control of their Federal judges. They have caused so much distress to the common citizen, it is criminal.

(side rant,sorry) Great find Info!



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo
Revolution... YES!!! I think we all know what succession has wrought - simply look at the outcome of the civil war. No, succession is NOT the answer dear friends. Revolution is the key that will unlock the shackles that we are being fitted with. We are slipping under totalitarian regime affording no civil liberties or freedoms. We are being sold down the proverbial river.

Soon, and perhaps even soon is too late, the masses will wake up and realize that they have been sold into indentured servitude - then God help us all!


talk like this this is why our liberties are slowly being taken away and our coutry is quickly being moved to a police state. in the New American Century they want to create they'd have you in shackles before anyone could reply to your post.

the govenment has been sposoring revolutions for years. mostly in third world countries. I'm all for bringing back the Panamanian Death Squads we were so fond of back in the 80s, only Panama would have nothing to do with it this time around.

Never in my life would I have thought I'd say this, but I envy the French ... well their revolution anyway. everyday Americans are too scared to face up to the truth.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by tyranny22
everyday Americans are too scared to face up to the truth.


I don't believe American citizens are too scared to face up to the truth. I believe that to be a creature of another name. Apathy.

They just simply don't care, or care enough. Let something happen to open their eyes, and look out.

For the things that happen today, or over the past 6 years especially, people might not even be aware of how bad it is. Look, they labeled one of my previously mentioned bills the "USA Patriot Act". I can just hear them now, "Wow, how patriotic is that? How patriotic for the Federal Government to enact a law that shows how much they love their nation? I'm so glad they did it."

The MCA 06. The Federal Government was hoping for the populous to hear it as this... "We're going to catch the bad guys and not let them away with anything!" The people responded, "Hell yea!!"

You see where I'm going with this.

Instead of looking into the bills, people just knew that their government was looking out for their best interests. After all, they sounded good, right? Not too many people know that they can be labeled a domestic terrorist through the Patriot Act. Not too many people understand that they (while being labeled a domestic terrorist) can be locked up and never seen again under the MCA 06, since it took away your right to habeas corpus.

Get people to wake up and smell the rubber. The rubber that's squashing down on their heads, from the Federal Government... and see what happens.

I've but only got a taste of what's been happening, and what's coming... and I don't care the least for it. I for one will not go down quietly. I'm not scared. I am an American.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 06:13 PM
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" I am but the first voice of many yet to come that shall decry tyranny." Thomas Hampton Mann, 1767. Hanged on the high seas for refusing to agree to the articles of impressment.

Men will say in years to come, "I never dreamed it would come to this." as they are led away in shackles. But those who turn a deaf ear to warnings have no one to blame but themselves. The sound some men make now, trying to be heard above the bovine din, is that warning.

I too express resolve to see a peaceful return to the Constitution and the practice of freedom. I fear I will not live to see that day. I am too old to be greatly worried that I will be more than a bystander in this conflict on the horizon. While I may lose my freedoms even more than now, tyranny can rob me of little that age has not already done. It is for the sake of my children, and their children, that I speak as I do.

I have long held some hope than man might soon move into space in great numbers, for this would ease the burden of conflict. But that hope too seems further and further from reality. The saving grace for the early colonists was the fact that they put a great distance between themselves and the Crown.

Now we have our own King George, and nowhere to go to be beyond his whims and lust for control. Without new lands for men to drift into, and thereby escape the stifling pressure of 'over civilization', war will come. If not in my lifetime, then surely in time for my young grandson to chose his side.



posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 07:23 PM
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NGC2736,


You have voted NGC2736 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.


I thought your words were very well spoken. Thank you for your contribution.

Info.

[edit on 4/30/2007 by Infoholic]



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 02:13 AM
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The time is not today and it won't be succession. It will be an overthrow. The problem is that at this time the general population is not affected. That unfortunately is about to change. There will be a slight upturn before the SHTF, but it will make the Great Depression look like a trip to Disneyland.

That is when the mistakes of our domestic policies and practices of the past 15 years will become common knowledge. Everyone will feel them. Perfect time to announce the NAU as a save all. That is when the government will get the wake up call.

Currently there is a pilot program about to start that will allow 1000 Mexican semi truck full opperating authority in the lower 48 states. It is currently unclear if they will be able to enter Canada to Windsor or not. US MSM has not reported on this at all as of last week. The information can be found on trucking sites like OOIDEA.

The point of the program is to eventually allow Mexican carriers to freely operate in the US as part of NAFTA agreements. Everything bought or sold or manufactured is transported by truck. Trucking is therefore the backbone of the entire US ecconomy. Jimmy Haffa (yep that one) proved that point all too well during the teamster strike.

Now there are about 2.3 million US drivers that will be affected when the program is deemed a success and US carriers get to compete dirrectly with the Mexican carriers. Wal-mart's cut throat practices will be saintly compared to the freight rates Mexico will be able to provide.

About long haul truck drivers, in order to do it you have to be able to spend long periods of time away from friends and family. Be able to work independently and think for yourself while constantly being aware of your surrounds and adapt accordingly. In military terms they are not ground units or special forces. They are snipers.

When they can no longer find work driving or in the factories (competion is too high for a decent pay, thanks again Bush and your worker program), then by the numbers 10% will feel raw enough about it to stand up for themselves. In otherwords 230, 000 armed and angery US citizens will go to Washington for answers to questions no one there wants to hear asked? If they organise and go as a single unit, then US military will have two choices stand down or vaporise them. That is when the rest of the country will wake up. No way can that be spun or covered up to satisfy the majority of the people.

My best guess is 5 years from now if not before.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by shai hulud
A Patriot is an invaluable resource that should not be squandered lightly and I think it is high time to reevaluate the relationship between the citizen and the Federal beast that is using the Constitution and States' rights to wipe their boots with.


I think attempting secession right now would be a very bad idea. First, people need to get off their arses and vote. If people can't even be bothered to take an hour so to get out and vote, there's no way they'll commit to revolution. See, it's illegal to seceed from the Union, that's what the Civil War was actually about (abolishing slavery was a fortunate side effect, but not the cause of the war). So secession would entail basically engaging in a domestic American revolution.

I don't mean the sort of "American Revolution" you see in TV commercials where some car that looks just like every other car out there is claimed to be an innovation, I'm talking about total and complete removal from the power grid, water grid, engaging in warfare against a superior-armed opponant in an era where doing so gets you either killed or blag-bagged and shipped to Gitmo. A dirty, miserable existence that you most likely won't live to see the result of, assuming it were eventually successful. The only way secession could possibly succeed is if the majority of Americans were committed to it (2/3 to 3/4 or more) to the point of willing to die for it.

If we can't even get half the nation to vote, then certainly America isn't ready for revolution.

But more to the point, I don't think we need to. Bush is rapidly losing all his power, and while he's lined the Executive Branch with too many powers, his ineptitude with those powers has resulted in a congress only too eager to strip them from him. While Cheney has put corrupt and unethical companies in places of power, his greed has resulted in a rapid shift of business away from those powers. Bush's rapidly diminishing influence is allowing more and more of the military to come forward and express their previously unexpressed views. The administration's entire power base has imploded in on itself and is now facing the prospect of impeachment for international crimes.

The system our founding fathers put down hundreds of years ago is, technically, working quite well. There's no way you can completely prevent ineptitude in the White House any more than you can completely prevent terrorism. All you can do is hope that a good enough system is in place to respond before too much damage is done. And while Bush & Co. caused a helluva lot of damage, up until 2006, fear and voter apathy did more to defeat this system than any congress or president ever could.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 09:53 AM
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My friend, secession from the United States under Constitutional statewide legislative vote is not illegal because it does not mention the subject at all.
Supreme Court decisions made by criminals in robes that have touched on the subject are so far removed from the original concept that if the Union is unjust, a people (i.e. State) have the right to leave. Having no choice but to stay in a tyrannical Union is not what the founding fathers wanted.

The civil war was not fought over slavery. It was over states rights' for the South, but more importantly for the Union, it was over what every war they have fought in since, REVENUE. Lincoln did not want to loose the vast amount of resources the South had in cotton.

If we were to get 100% of the population to vote, but it was for the Antichrist, does it make it right just for the sake of voting? If the only two viable parties are corrupt to the core, then what is to be done? We should reevaluate our contract with these United States with statewide referendums and decide if a new beginning is viable and just.

www.laughtergenealogy.com...



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 10:12 AM
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Article 4, section 3 of the United States Constitution:


New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.

The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state.
source



I believe this section of the Constitution prohibits the formation of an entity "outside" of the Union. It's not like you can just pick up and move your land somewhere else.


In my opinion, your feelings/thoughts are well founded, but possibly ill worded. Instead of thinking of "breaking free" of the tyrannical Government that's trying it's damnedest to emerge, why not take it back?

I love the United States of America, and I love being an American. I would much rather protect what's already ours, as opposed to trying to walk away from something so great.

Don't let the corruptly filled seats in our Government lead you to believe that our Nation is a failure, or our Constitution doesn't work.



posted on May, 1 2007 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by shai hulud
My friend, secession from the United States under Constitutional statewide legislative vote is not illegal because it does not mention the subject at all.


The Civil War was about the survival of the nation. If states had been left with the right to seceed from the Union, then it would only be a matter of time before it collapsed into seperate countries. I agree there were serious financial considerations as well, but ultimately the reason we had a civil war is because the Confederacy felt states should have the right to seceed and the Union felt that this would destroy America. The Union won, and ever since then we've stayed one nation. States may be allowed to split in to multiple states, cities may be allowed to be removed from state control, but no state or city is allowed to leave the federal union.


Originally posted by shai hulud
Supreme Court decisions made by criminals in robes that have touched on the subject are so far removed from the original concept that if the Union is unjust, a people (i.e. State) have the right to leave. Having no choice but to stay in a tyrannical Union is not what the founding fathers wanted.


Indeed. That is why they gave us the right to bear arms. They knew then, as our own commanders know now, that if an entire nation revolts in arms, its own army cannot stand against it. But our union is hardly tyrannical. We may be fat, lazy, inconsiderate, rude, and extremely wasteful, but tyrannical? Hardly. I heartily recommend you examine North Korea if you want an example of tyranny. That's a scary place.

Now, I consider Bush Administration to be tyrants, but they are merely our Executive Branch, and they are due to be replaced in just under two years. As long as elections are held, and there is no reason to suspect they won't be, I have no intention of revolting, because the elections are what have allowed us to progress as a nation, for better or worse, for over 200 years, to become the most powerful nation on Earth... at least until China or India catches up and surpasses us.


Originally posted by shai hulud
If we were to get 100% of the population to vote, but it was for the Antichrist, does it make it right just for the sake of voting?


Yes, in point of fact, it does. If 100% of the nation voted, and the majority of them voted the most dispicable person you can think of into office, then you must admit that the majority of the nation wants it to be that way, and thus, they will not rise up in revolt. The same nation may, four years later, replace this person as being too incompetant or loathesome to stand, or they may give them another four years.

The only time this really comes into question is when the vote is so narrow, and there is such a great degree of scandal among the voting machines, that people can no longer trust the accuracy or authenticity of their vote. In that instance, revolution is around the corner, be it from the people, or the tyrants. However, I think that we have not yet reached this point. We've touched it, briefly, but not actually sunk to it.

If the actions of the majority of voters truly offend you, try getting involved in politics first, and if it fails, then try being an expatriot second. Me, I'm going into politics out of sheer disgust.





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