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Theft With Lawful(?) Intent

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posted on Apr, 29 2007 @ 03:22 PM
While this thread may seem as if I engage in repeated government bashing, considering the last thread I started, bear in mind that I am stating that this is not the same as America bashing. America is not the government, America is the people of this great nation. It is sad that those who control the power have no respect for the Constitution, or even empathy for anyone. They,IMO, do not reflect what it truly is to be an American.

Who has not heard of eminent domain? It is the law, around for some time, that regulates the process whereby a governing body may force you to sell your land for the public good. This was intended, and for many years, used as a means for gaining road, water, and sewer easement. But now it has taken on an unhealthy new form.

"..the government can seize your land for private use if they can prove it will serve what's called the public good."

"...Cities across the country have been using eminent domain to force people off their land, so that private developers can build more expensive homes and offices that will pay more in property taxes than the buildings they are replacing.

Cities get the property by certifying that an area is 'blighted'. And guess who decides the condition of an area? Yes indeed, the same ones who want to take it! Did you notice in the above quotes the use of the word 'private'? They can take your home, land that may have been in your family for a century, and turn it over to whomever they chose. And they do.

If you own land that is in any way scenic or desirable, you are in danger of having to move. If some rich S.O.B. wants your land to build his 20,000 square foot mansion on, he gets the governing body to 'condemn' it, because he has the free money to pay higher taxes. How American is that? In 2005 a Supreme Court ruling upheld this type of theft by the rich and powerful.

In a 5 to 4 ruling Justice John Paul Stevens said that a public purpose such as "creating jobs" was enough to satisfy the intent of the Fifth Amendment. Now any reasonable student of history would find it hard to believe that after breaking away from the Crown, where the law was defined in accordance with the needs of the rich and powerful, that our forefathers meant for a the law to be 'bent' in such a way.

Land of the free? Equality for all? Does this sound like that to you?

So what are you going to do about it? It's easy to ignore things that likely won't effect you personally, but this one might . Your home could be next. If you're not living in a mansion, you need to get involved now, before you need to start packing.

posted on Apr, 29 2007 @ 03:50 PM
In my neck of the woods, we had a similar situation.
We had an Indian tribe that was flourishing with the world's largest casino. The setting was in the middle of forest land. Many of the small town homes were bought out to make room room for the development of casino growth. Many other residents were reluctant to relocate, so they turned down the offers. The tribe put increasing pressure on the local government to pave the way. Eminent domain was eventually played out and many were forced to sell so that a casino could make more money. The Indian relations were strained to begin with, but this just made things worse. I don't begrudge the tribe for retaking their lost land, but if the land was purchased legally by the residents, how on earth can the Indians say it is still theirs? Basically, to me the message I am getting is, we want your land, it was ours 100 years ago and the white men stole it. We will get the land whether it is for sale or not.

I can see how small civil wars can flare up over this. I'd defend my land any way I could.

posted on Apr, 29 2007 @ 04:08 PM
I don't approve of anyone using such tactics. I am Native American, and we have a name for people like that. We call them 'apples'. That's because they're red on the outside, but white on the inside.

Now before I start a bunch of name calling on this thread, that was not a slur on the white race. It is understood by us to mean the concept of putting money ahead of what is right and proper conduct for a human being, and relates to the different thought processes encountered by natives and the early settlers.


posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 10:35 AM
You know, I'm surprised that no one has picked up on this. I don't like to connect the dots for other people, thereby allowing them to reach some logical deductions on their own.This time I'll spell it out a bit more.

If you want to round up a certain type of citizen, what is the easiest first step? Separate the from their home turf. Put them under stress, where you can say they 'went crazy after losing their home'. Also, if they are the poorer part of society, rising home prices will mean that you have now put them out of the home market, because whatever the court ordered the new buyer to pay will not be enough to purchase and start over in an area as good as they lived in once lawyer fees and all come out.

This is an intentional move to marginalize the less affluent portion of society. You think not? Well, there's a lot of people living on reservations in America that know that being pushed aside does happen. And a drive through Pine Ridge will show you a third world country in your own nation.

But if you're not concerned enough to see these measures by your government as a threat and a power grab, just wait, it will come to a neighborhood near you soon.

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 12:12 PM
It really is a shame that the rich can take what they want frominnocent people. They know that the poor are of no means able to fight them and win. If your land is desired, laws can be passed that will force you to give up what little you have. If you take this a bit further, the government can also take possessions as well. If you are considered hoarding, you can be visited by the PTB and relieved of those things. I am not 100% sure about the circumstances that need to happen before they can do this, but I am sure that if what you have is wanted, they can find a way to take it away. I am thinking about things like fuel, bullets, crops, or anything else that may give you a leg up on anyone in times of need.

The potential for rounding up groups is becoming more evident daily.
Use the law to disarm the people, take their land, and make them dependent on the powers that be. Also, create fear that terrorism is everywhere to keep the masses huddled and complient. Once all this has been achieved, the feds can do as they will without any problems. As long as cable tv is functioning, most people will accept anything. It's a wonder opiate.

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 12:52 PM
We are already getting abuse of this law, and have been for some time. The potential for excessive abuse seems on the horizon. It is just a matter of time till some group uses this to put 'undesirables' in a central location. This makes them easier to control.

Could this be used to 'deport' someone from an area where they are a problem for local government?

Could this be used to relocate an activist, and then make him/her disappear during the move, without much notice?

Could this be used to create voting blocks of like minded people?

Could this be used politically to disband a militia?

There seems to be an endless list of ways this new view on the Fifth Amendment could be abused. Right now it seems to be only about money and catering to the whims and desires of the rich and powerful. But it could get much worse. At any rate it is unfair to a portion of our society.

I would be interested in knowing just how widespread this abuse is. And knowing what groups are benefiting the most.

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 06:16 PM
Eminent Domain, like so many other things, has its place, but also like so many other things, is open to abuse. I personally think that Kelo v New London may be one of the most offensive rulings by the Supreme Court in the last hundred years.

On the other hand, let's not get totally carried away. If The Government wants to force somebody to move just to get them out of an area, why bother with E.D. ? The local power to condemn property would serve just as well, or, if one is in a more conspiracy-oriented frame of mind, how hard would it be to arrange an 'accidental' fire? Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, why force a 'troublemaker' to move? In today's world of high-speed distributed information exchange (teh interweb!), I can be a 'problem child' for the U.S. Government regardless of my physical location, if I am so inclined.

Making an activist disappear isn't really a job for E.D. either. Plant a few narcotics (if he / she doesn't have an actual stash on hand), plant a few guns, phone in a few 'anonymous tips' of child abuse or 'suspicious activity', and you can make someone vanish into the Federal Prison system...or they can 'resist arrest', and the 'problem' gets solved. This approach has the added benefit of utterly trashing the person's reputation...someone who loses the family farm to E.D. comes off looking like a victim of The State...some drug-running, gun-stockpiling, child-abusing maniac doesn't get nearly the sympathy.

There's already a tool to create voting blocks of like-minded people. It's called gerrymandering, and it's created some real gems.

As for disbanding a militia, again, E.D. isn't a good tool for the job. The members are probably already spread out, so making them move won't materially change things for them. On the other hand, see above regarding the use of firearms laws and drug laws...those are much better was of dealing with a militia group.

posted on Apr, 30 2007 @ 06:41 PM
You are correct stormhammer. But it has been my experience that the Feds use every tool, not always just the best one, saving some I would guess for special circumstances. And let us not forget that in an act of compassion, the Feds are not above helping you relocate. And that is only a short step from the ghetto in Warsaw. All the troublemakers in one area, or a few areas, are easier to deal with.

And while 'offing' a bothersome person is effective, overuse will be noticed by the flock. As efficient as the Germans were, solutions are needed that speed up the process.

But the whys and hows are not even the real issue here, that is pure speculation on what this leaves the door open to happen. The fact is that the government should not be able to take what you don't want to part with and give it to another individual. This is stretching the concept of "public good" to extreme. Would you be comfortable with someone coming to you and telling you they knew someone who could contribute more to society if that person had your job? your vehicle? your money? your liver? Where should the "public good" end if not with your home?

And bare in mind here, we're not talking about the town needing your place to put in a power substation, or even a public park. This is so your home can become better used by someone with the resources to "improve" it and therefore pay more tax money to the cancerous growth of government.

posted on May, 1 2007 @ 09:03 PM
I posted this thread about 48 hours ago. I was shocked at how little response it garnered. I'm not posting to get attention. As you can tell from the fact that I don't even have an avatar, I'm not much of an egotist. It's not points, or the ATS awards. I post because I think it's important.

Is this the level of apathy that is the norm? Is it because it's someone else's problem? What is there about this subject that is so unappealing? What is needed to make people try to see the present and change the future?

I am a person interested in what makes people 'tick', I am curious to know why there are threads of so little substance that get a great amount of 'followers', and some who get none, even though the subject matter is more important to everyday life?

Is this escapism? A refusal to face the facts?

I don't really care that much about the views towards this thread, it can die a silent death, and it will be no real loss except to the future. But I am perplexed about why some inane issues are important to the readers here, and others are ignored. Is this 'Survivor' for the alternate viewer?

This is not about my thread, my validation, my whatever. I see so many threads that are ignored and wither and die. Good threads, with substance. If you care to spend the time as I did, you can look them up. Even though I am a newbie, I found them.

If anyone has read this far, I am impressed. You must be very bored or very interested in the reasons that America has allowed itself to become what it now is. The apathy shown by the reception of this article speaks volumes for why our nation is in the dire straights that it is.

I did not come to this forum to make 'points'. I have never sought awards or any recognition. I did not come here to find followers, but leaders. I am still looking.

posted on May, 1 2007 @ 10:12 PM
NGC, people come here for as as many reasons as there are topics.
They come for their fix, exchange views and move on with their day. You totally nailed the apathy thing. If you look to any major crisis, you will find more voices asking why and debating than you will organizing solutions. As a nation we have been spoon fed passivism our whole lives. Many just accept it for what it is and let the powers that be worry about it. There are not many leaders who will do what it takes to effect change. I really truly believe that no one will stand up until it is evidently too late. I fear that it may already be too late to change things.

posted on May, 2 2007 @ 06:18 AM
Eminent Domain is one of the most popular Abuses of power in the world. It's not really for the common good, it's a legal loophole that allows the government to steal from law abiding citizens without consequences. How sad is it when your government has the right to steal for convienance?


posted on May, 2 2007 @ 08:29 AM
Shadow, you are right of course. I had higher hopes, but grumbling is the extent of most people's resistance. The sad thing is, statistically speaking, out of the number of visitors to this site, one of them is about to get the ax from the government, and doesn't even know it. It may be through eminent domain, the IRS, false arrest, whatever, but big brother is coming for some of you. And being innocent will not save you.

Ghost, we can stop this abuse. We may not be able to stop all government abuses, but then, wars are fought one battle at a time. This battle could be so easy. Enough people sending emails to candidates and joining protest groups on this and we could stop it cold. With decent support, this is a state level politician's dream. He/she could look like a hero and no one would criticize them for anything they did to kill this abuse.

But apathy will be the death of America. You have to care about freedom more than the rich S.O.B.s care about power to ever win this nation back.

posted on May, 2 2007 @ 08:42 AM

Originally posted by NGC2736
Ghost, we can stop this abuse. We may not be able to stop all government abuses, but then, wars are fought one battle at a time. This battle could be so easy. Enough people sending emails to candidates and joining protest groups on this and we could stop it cold. With decent support, this is a state level politician's dream. He/she could look like a hero and no one would criticize them for anything they did to kill this abuse.

But apathy will be the death of America. You have to care about freedom more than the rich S.O.B.s care about power to ever win this nation back.

I work on a lot of different projects to stop government abuse through education. I chose to post here in the hope that I could highlight this issue for other ATS readers.

The thing as you point out is getting enough people to recognize the problem. I must admit thit I'm a bit disappointed that so many are Overlooking this issue entirly!

Even on ATS, we can't do much untill people know it's happening.


posted on May, 2 2007 @ 08:30 PM
Ghost, you and I and a few others work to secure freedom for all people, here and abroad. We do what we can. I am thankful for you, and those like you, who work to make what we have better and more just.

I am disappointed at how many do not care. Until something wicked comes to their own doorstep. Then they will howl the loudest, as if no one warned them.

And the worst of it is, it is so easy to be an activist, to put in your two cents worth. The amount of time spent typing fluff on fake 'ray guns' would cover a lot of ground on issues such as this. It is as if the world wants to hide from the truth, pretend it isn't so, and concentrate on those things which are of the least importance.

I am disappointed in humanity. Maybe we, as a whole, deserve the overlords that we tolerate. If we are too lazy to do even the simplest things to better ourselves, then this must be what we deserve.

Let us then pray, each in their own manner, for the children. We are giving them a world of intolerance, of debt, of serfdom to the state, that is dying with every dollar made from the destruction of another acre of rain forest . We are failing them. I doubt that they will thank us for our attitude of non- involvement.

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