Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
You would think that,yes, However, I don't think that is empirically the case.

That would be correct if you look at third world countries not as a part of humankind but as proto-population pools.

Originally posted by jbondo
In comparisons of countries, the rest of the world is getting better while the USA continues to drop.

I agree. But this is not happening only in US. It is a groving problem in all "developed" societies/countries.

Originally posted by yanchek
That would be correct if you look at third world countries not as a part of humankind but as proto-population pools.

Well, being someone who lives in the United States, which is not a third world country, I see no great level of intellectualism in the general populace,and I suppose that is the point. It's not just third world countries that suffer from this problem, we have it right here in the United States.

Educated & intelligent are not the same thing.

One also fails to realize that you can be educated...& that you can also grow in intelligence/common sense.
This argument that the human race is growing stupider is folly. We are growing stupider, but not for the reasons you think. We are stupid because we put value on things that should have none. Because we are selfish. We are stupid, because we are stupid!

I completley agree with the theory, and it's certainly not the first time I've come across it.

With the intellectuals devoting their time to their carreers and advancements in science, the lesser intelligent half of the race seems to focus more on sex.

Wether it's genetics that form intelligence, or upbringing, I can tell you neither of those are advantaged from a low intelligence parent.
The children born by parents of low IQ have two things to contend with. Genetics... and the fact that stupid people really don't have all that much to teach their kids either. (Nor are many of them even willing to try).

Add to this now, the rapid advancement of "comfort" electronics, which require no amount of brain-power to understand how to operate, and generally take all effort out of living. Much of the dumb side of the race is edging dangerously close to being outright useless.


However, there is a silver lining to the cloud (If you dont mind people dying of starvation.)

Robotic equipment now holds the job force which used to be occupied by these lower intelligence laborours. (Agreed some of them are pretty smart, but the rest are plain idiots.)

With the job market for the less intelligent diminishing rapidly, they simply wont be able to afford being less intelligent anymore. Either they will have to jump start their brains any way they can, or perish.

Welfare of course will be their fallback, but wellfare can only support so many people... eventually people will be paying such extraordinary taxes for that welfare, that, come the next election, someone who opposes welfare will be voted in, and poof, the net is gone.

Now that person who gets elected in will of course have to deal with impressive amounts of poverty and starvation... will it be his fault? No. Is it anyone's fault? Yes... its the fault of those who decided they didnt want to have to use their brains anymore, expecting someone else to take care of them. You reap what you sow I suppose.


Hey, it's either that, or the government will decide to wage some war so we can get rid of them "legitimately", instead of letting them die of hunger.

I can honestly see the government pulling that one out of the bag.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
All I can say is, people who are easily offended, should be offended more often. Really, you're going to get offended by a statement that is empirically obvious? Look around you people. We are living in a world that has an INTELLECTUAL deficiency. People would rather watch a program on A&E about some drugged out celebrity than they would to watch something on the History or National Geographic channels. That doesn't speak very highly of the intellectualism in today's world.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Intellectual deficiency? You can look around and see something such as which channels people watch on tv and say there is an intellectual deficiency? Watch somebody for long enough and you are going to find something they do in life which makes them look dumb. Let's look at the 2004 elections where one party starts pushing certain religious values. In my opinion they are playing off of certain intellectual deficiencys but that's just me. Im not going to call everyone who was influanced by that dumb, it's just something they did which I don't agree with.

How can people sit here and claim the US is going down the intellectual toilet and not give one idea of what could make things better? All of us may have some intellectual deficiency. I thought dumb people were the ones that look at something, talk about how much it sucks, how hard it is going to be and then give up.

Let's talk about our welfare mothers and what our leadership made up of intellectual citizens has done to "help" them. They have given them enough money to buy food and rent an appartment in an area where the school district has little chance of helping them. If that is the issue then what can we do to make things better?

If it's TV then sure, I agree. I love watching movies, comedy central, the History channel, sometimes, depending on what is going on the news. I was disappointed when comedy central stopped showing SNL and picked up Mad TV. The jokes in made TV left me wanting something more. In fact at the time I told my room mate that the media was trying to dumb down America. Let's try to talk about what the media is doing.

I believe part of the problem is that people are not willing to help each other out and the problem is growing. People don't grow dumb, what we have here is a breakdown in society. The intellectual deficiency is that we don't come up with anything to stop it.

Styki

Originally posted by johnsky

Wether it's genetics that form intelligence, or upbringing, I can tell you neither of those are advantaged from a low intelligence parent.

I'll be honest, I think it's due to upbringing. My mother used to read to me as a child. How many kids today can say that his/her parent sits down and reads to them. I'll venture to say, very few.

Of course, intelligence carries a stigma. Intelligent people are usually labeled a whole host of derogatory things. "Loner,nerd, geek, social retard," et cetera. So, naturally, there is no inclination for most to want to be intellectual.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Of course, intelligence carries a stigma. Intelligent people are usually labeled a whole host of derogatory things. "Loner,nerd, geek, social retard," et cetera. So, naturally, there is no inclination for most to want to be intellectual.
[edit on 24-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Not 100% valid.

Loners, nerds, geeks, social retards (nerds in general?)
Are people that also like to play videogames a lot, and are less social than others.

Loners, emo's, they're "styles" that one may relate with, but that has nothing to do with intelligence.

People are usually called geeks or nerds for: High knowledge (super grades) / Goody-two-shoes behaviour / Lesser Social Life (eg.: non-stop gaming, visiting ATS *cough* whilst having a few normal friends) / Being very pale (pale = no sun = nerd, though albino's and people with similiar problems are being pulled down for nothing due to this). etc. etc.

However because you may have one of these traits that make you get called a nerd or geek does not mean you are high of intelligence.

Physical appearance, also plays a role.

eg.: Some guy that looks kinda normal, can still be of very high ''intellect'' (w/e that might mean for him, he's super strategic and "open minded" and can solve almost any problem by facing the facts?), whilst not being considered a nerd at all.

There are also people I would deem Intelligent that fulfill the description of "mainstream" people that think [Justin Timberlake CD] > [Survival Lessons].

Yet they would be capable of obliterating anyone when it comes to "adapting" to circumstances without having prior knowledge.

[edit on 24/4/07 by -0mega-]

Originally posted by -0mega-

Loners, emo's, they're "styles" that one may relate with, but that has nothing to do with intelligence.

Many intelligent people that I have known, not all, but I'd say the majority, have been what most would label "loners."

The intelligent kids vs not so intelligent kids number will not be skewed by that method. The bell curve will dictate the percentages as it always has, that is until we start genetic manipulations involving intelligence and selective gene switching.

Well, I kind of agree, most of the younger generation don't really tend to think for themselves. They seem more and more like programmables.

Yes the average human is dumber.

Some of it is because they can afford to. Big government will take care of them "as long as they vote democrat" Just kidding but not really.

Some of it is genetics...

Some of it is culture... Mainstream and the subcultures. Watching MTV or BET is like poisoning your brain.

Most of it is people who can't take care of themselves and can't add 49+37 but feel they should have 6 kids... Thats not an assumption that's an observation. I live near NYC and travel through the neighboring area daily, it's not pretty. Kids having kids is a bad thing. Career welfare recipients having kids is a bad thing. Morons having kids is a bad thing.

Who in turn grow up with no role model and are dumb as rocks and repeat the pattern. Out of those six unfortunate kids maybe 1 or 2 break the cycle.

Here's a surprise its rich people too! A lot of them don't pay attention to their kids and they become idiot SELF CENTERED scum too! They are the future crooked CEOs who couldn't run a lemonade stand but because of their roots get to run a big corporation and ruin thousands of peoples live when they can't hack it.

Having a child seems like the trendy thing to do now. Such a shame, because people treat the kid like a trend.

That is why I value the Electoral College a straight vote democracy is suicide. The idiots would always win based on numbers and who would they be putting in charge, take a wild guess. IF people can't take care of themselves and their community is crap, the last thing I'm doing is letting them choose the president or our congress member.




[edit on 24-4-2007 by American Madman]

[edit on 24-4-2007 by American Madman]

Mmmmm, eugenics-y goodness!

So, if I'm reading right, people are getting more dumberer because of "the welfare state"?

As opposed to the free market geniuses that led to the 1929 market crash, I suppose. Or the Yale graduates who think that giving kids more bubble tests and calling it "No Child Left behind" will cure the world's ills?

Education is a matter of opportunity. A dumb-as-a-rock white kid who can throw a football and has rich parents has a better chance of a college education than a studious and intelligent black kid with poor parents. Perhaps the latter child will bust his hump working for his college funds, so he's splitting his time between school and work and paying off loans, while the former, freeloading off his parents, has an uninterrupted college education.

By your standards, the first guy is more intelligent - Being genetically related to wealthy people makes him of superior intelligence, and it allows him to spend more time on his college courses.

By the only measure that counts, evolution selects for the individual that has the best reproductive success. If the individuals we deem to be superior are not reproducing, then it is our own societies fault for not creating incentives to do so (and penalties fordoing otherwise). As we have set up our society, the most fit are those who earn money off the record via the black market, get money from the government via free health care, welfare, and have tons of babies. They are actually smarter in an evolutionary sense that all the ivy league grads who are working two jobs and are too greedy and busy to reproduce. This so-called underclass has exploited a niche that we have created for them. Things will never be "right" until we admit the truth of evolution and genetics and take out all the social supports allowing the "fit" to survive and the weak to perish.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by j_kalin]

The educated and the intelligent have always been the minority.

It maybe because the very definition of "intelligent" is 'smarter then the average', but non the less, you can't say human kind has "stupefied" along the ages. Everything points to the opposite, actually. Or maybe things stayed statistically the same in term of demography, but there's just more people in the world, so yes, there are more stupid people, but also more smart people.

Like wise, the point where a person is considered educated has also changed throughout history. By our standards, someone who doesn't understand computers is 'uneducated' in terms of his ability to function in the world.

Aside from unclear definitions, stupid people breed faster then educated people today, yes. But stupid people also tend to have a shorter life-span. So I guess it kinda evens itself out eventually.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Mmmmm, eugenics-y goodness!

I hear you. Earlier I posted link with the description of Eugenics and the later posts were the cream of "intelligence".

Adolf would be so proud.

Originally posted by greatlakes
The intelligent kids vs not so intelligent kids number will not be skewed by that method. The bell curve will dictate the percentages as it always has, that is until we start genetic manipulations involving intelligence and selective gene switching.

When I first read your post I was going to launch an assault due to your mentioning of eugenics (Wrath of Khan, Space Seed,etc) but then It occurred to me...you were right. After further review I have decided to agree with your statement because undoubtedly regardless of ethics science will march forward. To be able to manipulate genes to avoid getting cancer, changing eye colour, etc will be too tempting for us not to try. Good job, greatlakes, you earned your watermelon jolly rancher.