Originally posted by RWPBR
It is as on topic as your posts are. Your posts seem to be saying that if you believe in the Bible than you have to believe in and follow Christ.
My post show you how in Christs own words he came for the Jews only and, being a Gentile I am a Noahide with reverance and respect for Jesus.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by RWPBR]

This has already been taken off topic but you mentioned that "Christs own words he came for the Jews only"and I have two questions for you:

1) What would you be defining as "Jews" back during that time?

2) Despite how the language appears, do you personally think that Christ came only for the Jews?

By Jews I mean the Israelites, those who followed the Laws of Moses.

And yes Jesus said a few times he came for the Jews, not the Gentiles.
It was Simon Peter and Saul of Tarsus (Paul) who opened it up to the Gentiles. If Jesus came for the Gentiles he would have said so in his many years of ministry. Even Paul said in one of his letters something to the effect of " dont concern yourself so much with the gentiles, they have the laws of Noah" Jesus said one thing while he was alive, his followers said something else after he was gone...who do you believe more ?

Originally posted by RWPBR
By Jews I mean the Israelites, those who followed the Laws of Moses.

And yes Jesus said a few times he came for the Jews, not the Gentiles.
It was Simon Peter and Saul of Tarsus (Paul) who opened it up to the Gentiles. If Jesus came for the Gentiles he would have said so in his many years of ministry. Even Paul said in one of his letters something to the effect of " dont concern yourself so much with the gentiles, they have the laws of Noah" Jesus said one thing while he was alive, his followers said something else after he was gone...who do you believe more ?

I believe that most people do not know how to read the Bible correctly in this day and age. But I asked you what do you think , not what you think the Bible says.

The vast majority of the Israelites were not following the Laws of Moses anyhow. Many of them were also not Israelites but were the people of EDOM. When Christ called them "....Jews who are not Jews and do lie..", he meant those people of all different races and blood who were imposters claiming to be the People of the Covenant, but were not the People of the Covenant! Those who upheld not only Moses' Laws but those who picked up their own croses and followed as HE did can be called the "People of the Covenant". Why would Jesus come to save those who tricked the Romans into crucifying him? More importantly, why would he come to save any particular race at all, whether it be an Israelite or an Edomite, or a Gentile? Was Jesus a rascist also looking into blood types? Do you think that Jesus might have cared in the least about race?

People need to think correctly about these things which is why I asked you what DO YOU THINK and not to tell me what you think the Bible says.

I could give you many reasons why Christ came and it was not only to "die for our sins", as this notion came about later on. He also came to prevent the Asuric beings from continuing to plague man. He also came to call us all back home to the Father. He also came to prevent the black magician in Mexico (sun demon) from fufilling his plans. He also came to fufill the laws of Moses, meaning that he was to expect the Hebrew Israelite people to re-integrate confortably back into the cradle of humanity and that Jahve's sacrifice in creating the moon, was made possible to pave the way toward what Christ came later to fufill. There are many more such reasons.

Jesus was an Essene Nazarane - he was NOT a Jew

"And we shall call him Nazarane" (Matt)

Jesus said there are no more Israelites nor Gentiles but only the People of God, I think it's pretty clear that he came for all of mankind.

So now, why did you use this false notion of Christ not coming for Gentiles to debate against another Christian person of faith here on this thread?


[edit on 15-4-2007 by sweftl337]

I just wanted to show that scripture is a two edged sword and open to interpretation. The problem with religion has always been that only THEIR interpretation is correct and any other is heresy. You just helped me prove my point. My interpretation is not false, it just doesnt agree with your narrow view.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by RWPBR
I just wanted to show that scripture is a two edged sword and open to interpretation. The problem with religion has always been that only THEIR interpretation is correct and any other is heresy. You just helped me prove my point. My interpretation is not false, it just doesnt agree with your narrow view.

Aww. come on, man! You should know that the Bible says tons about that mean old Mexican sun demon!

Originally posted by RWPBR
I just wanted to show that scripture is a two edged sword and open to interpretation. The problem with religion has always been that only THEIR interpretation is correct and any other is heresy. You just helped me prove my point. My interpretation is not false, it just doesnt agree with your narrow view.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by RWPBR]

I am defending GPS's point in mentioning how accepting the Gospels and following Christ should go together. I never implied that each one of us cannot have our own personal understandings, nor did I notice GPS implying this either. His view seemed open-minded and does not tread close to the so-called "Bible-thumper" of sorts, yet I got the feeling that certain posters here would like nothing more than to claim all Christian as "profane" in an attempt to make them out to be "Bible-thumpers".

His reply was in response to that typically narrow-minded view that "we do not worship your Christian God of the Bible". Well, let me just clarify that anyone who makes such statements regarding "Your God" is highly immature in approaching deep Esoteric matters and it is a sad thought that the people who claim governance over mankind today tend to also think similar to this. All too often this approach taken by people puffed-up full of pride, egoism and arrogance reveals that they "assume" they have access to some great hidden knowledge than the profane do not. To be "Christianized" does not include Church dogma, or to necessarily accept the views of another man. It is an understanding that what is being said in the Gospels is basically true and that Christ is God.

The men of the very highest degrees know this themselves (that Christ is God) and instead many of them have decided not to follow Christ because they'd rather be free to play with the devil. They have their own interpretations as well but it does not mean that they are more correct than any so-called Bible-thumper. So rarley do I engage with the so-called "Bible-thumper" but when the chance arises, I do NOT retort to teaching him a lesson by attacking the Divinity or mission of Christ, nor do I proclaim not to "follow your profane Bible God". For I were to do this, I would be attempting to raise mysefl higher than those enlighteneed ones who authored their deepest experiences in the Bible. Yet, what are we seeing here by many of these so-called "Brothers"?

If someone does not wish to share this basic view in accepting the Gospels, it is perfectly fine by me. Many people of different faith do not accept Jesus Christ as God, I do not see them as profane. However, at least they will say it so and are not cowards like many of you here! At least the Muslim or Hindu or whoever will tell us their honest stance. But if you are not going to clearly define your stance in these matters then all I'm suggesting is to try not to insult those people of faith who understand the more esoteric truths contained within scripture.





[edit on 15-4-2007 by sweftl337]

You used a lot of words but said very little. I dont care what you believe. You shouldnt care what I believe. The fact that you do shows YOU to be the elitist.


[edit on 15-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Originally posted by RWPBR
You used a lot of words but said very little. I dont care what you believe. You shouldnt care what I believe. The fact that you do shows YOU to be the elitist.


[edit on 15-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Look at your Avatar: " Secret Masonic/Illuminatti Moonbase".

It's as if you're sarcastically telling us that you have difficulty in connecting the dots to any Conspiracy but chose to come here of all places.

No, I do not believe that 9-11 was pulled off by Bin Laden, so that must make me a believer in illuminati moonbases too, right? Did you know that Masonic Light thinks Muslims want to die for 72 Virgins in Heaven?

Thinking devorced from reality once again and for people who know where to look, it shows up in the most obvious of places.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by sweftl337]

Originally posted by RWPBR
I dont care what you believe. You shouldnt care what I believe. The fact that you do shows YOU to be the elitist.

Then why did you care what I personally believed? not that mind telling you.

This is why I posted in this thread,because of ignorant finger pointing,where like here, your fingers are pointing at yourself.

Matthew 11:25-27

Rest for the Weary
25At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

When someone has the heart of a child towards God,you get your proof.
Scripture is important but not as important as this to have a start.Then this and other verses become clear as day.Not that I`m claiming any type of expertise in scripture,just the basic`s at what Christ said because of my experience with God.

Sweft

Your obviously well studied and I found your posts to be informative

Originally posted by gps777

Originally posted by RWPBR
I dont care what you believe. You shouldnt care what I believe. The fact that you do shows YOU to be the elitist.

Then why did you care what I personally believed? not that mind telling you.

This is why I posted in this thread,because of ignorant finger pointing,where like here, your fingers are pointing at yourself.

Matthew 11:25-27

Rest for the Weary
25At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

When someone has the heart of a child towards God,you get your proof.
Scripture is important but not as important as this to have a start.Then this and other verses become clear as day.Not that I`m claiming any type of expertise in scripture,just the basic`s at what Christ said because of my experience with God.

Sweft

Your obviously well studied and I found your posts to be informative

"What"?

GET READY FOR ARMAGEDDON

"Will you wake up a month on Tuesday"?

LIVE IN the real world...........................................................

,dxiujticurfolas\d47f2

work it out?

/ls5fgxb.,htdl.

Matthew 11:25-27

Rest for the Weary
25At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

When someone has the heart of a child towards God,you get your proof.
Scripture is important but not as important as this to have a start.Then this and other verses become clear as day.Not that I`m claiming any type of expertise in scripture,just the basic`s at what Christ said because of my experience with God.

I understand. You are saying dont think for your self, just do as you are told...be like a child...just believe and dont ask questions. Let " Spiritual" experiances fill in the gaps caused by doubt and reason.If a scripture seems to say something you dont agree with, pray on it until you can figure out how to rationalize it away.

No thanks. I think I prefer to be Illuminated.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by RWPBR]

What about the theory that we each have Christ and Lucifer within us, the two halves of our spirit? I have read that, and it seems no less credible than any other theory on the topic. I also must ask about the claim Jesus was not a Jew. I also read and think it likely he was an Essene Nazarene, or Nazorite, but I have always felt he was a Jewish Rabbi. After all, there must be a dozen times he is called Rabbi in the Bible, which in my view is the last place I'd expect to find him being acknowledged as being Jewish. It is like he is the lone Jew that Christians like. Well, maybe there are a few others, like Woody Allen, or Mel Brooks. But, anyway, what is to say that the two sides are both needed. No light can exist without darkness. Louie Armstrong sings, 'bright, blessed day, and dark sacred night.' which I like. You cannot expect the good without the bad. It is my experience that there is a balance which always seems to even out, sometimes in very surprizing ways. Both night and day exist, and so, who can prove one or the other is good or bad. Is white good, and black bad? That is likely the old view, and the source of the dark=bad idea.

You have voted Masonic Light for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Excellent post, Masonic Light. It shows you have good knowledge of Satanism. I have known Satanists. Athiests they are. I think they like to use the archetype of Satan because it gets a rise out of people.

But you are right, Satanism is incompatible with Freemasonry in general. A LaVeyan Satanist being an athiest could not be a Freemason for lack of belief in a diety. A devilworshiping teen could not be a Mason because they are too young, immature, and confused. An adult devil worshiper would not be a Mason, as they tend not to be decent people, since a devilworshiper would be worshiping the Christian devil, who would promote animal and human sacrifices, drug use, abuse of people, and all sorts of really nasty things. Don't see that compatible with Masonry.

Setians, as you state, possibly could be Masons in theory, however, if they are indeed a more philisophical and semi religous offshoot of the LaVeyans, I don't see them and Masonry as compatible, and certainly see no reason why they would even want to join the Masons.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Setians, as you state, possibly could be Masons in theory, however, if they are indeed a more philisophical and semi religous offshoot of the LaVeyans, I don't see them and Masonry as compatible, and certainly see no reason why they would even want to join the Masons.

I agree. The Setians consider Masonry to be a magical school of the Right Hand Path. Since their religion is admittedly Left Hand Path, I don't know of any with much interest in Masonry.

The difference is that the Right Hand Path leads one to renounce the ego, which it sees as illusionary, in return for Union (the Sanskrit is "Yoga") with God.

The Setian, on the other hand, believes the ego to be a divine gift, and that it should therefore be reinforced and strengthened. They do not accept the doctrine of any mystical union with God if such union involves annhilation of the self.

They are on the fence when it comes to Crowley. In the "Cloven Hoof", a Church of SAtan newsletter that Aquino edited in the early '70's, he wrote an article about Crowley, asking if the Beast should be should be seriously studied by Satanists, or simply considered a colorful eccentric. LaVey's stance was straightforward: Crowley was simply full of Kabalistic hot air, just like Levi, Pike, amd Hall.

Aquino's group views AC in a somewhat better light, however emphasizing that Crowley often didn't understand the meaning of his experiences (and thus remaining a Magus of the Right Hand Path). I would respewctfully disagree with the Setians on this point, and declare that Crowley had the right idea in that the ego is an obstacle to the divine.

I've been reading this thread, intresting, would a satanist be able to become a felow mason?
The answer that i've seen here is, satanists are not really satanists.
It's intersting how some of the massons here try to avoid answering a simple question.

Simply put, if a satanist would walk up in a lodge and he would say he is a satanist and would like to become a fellow masson would you guys accept him massonic light?
I've put this question since none of you managed to answer.

Since he represents a god for many what is stoping you on accepting the person in cause.

Originally posted by pepsi78
It's intersting how some of the massons here try to avoid answering a simple question.

Simply put, if a satanist would walk up in a lodge and he would say he is a satanist and would like to become a fellow masson would you guys accept him massonic light?
I've put this question since none of you managed to answer.

Since he represents a god for many what is stoping you on accepting the person in cause.

Freemasons have no rule that specifies which religion is allowed and which is not. So theoretically if a man claimed to believe in god and presented himself as an upright citizen he could petition a lodge for membership. All he would need to do then is get 100% of the Christians, Catholics, Jews etc to vote for him. In my lodge one negetive vote will keep you out . Other lodges may require two blackballs. A potential candidate that has a felony on his record would likely not get voted in. So theoretically it is possible but it would be like getting your church to vote 100% to let a satanist watch your children during church service.
I would be amazed to hear a single case of a known satanist getting voted into a regular lodge of Free and Accepted Masons.
If that doesn't answer your question, let me know and I will try to clarify.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I've been reading this thread, intresting, would a satanist be able to become a felow mason?
The answer that i've seen here is, satanists are not really satanists.
It's intersting how some of the massons here try to avoid answering a simple question.

Simply put, if a satanist would walk up in a lodge and he would say he is a satanist and would like to become a fellow masson would you guys accept him massonic light?
I've put this question since none of you managed to answer.

Since he represents a god for many what is stoping you on accepting the person in cause.

No we wouldnt. Plain and simple answer. He would not get into my Lodge.
He would not get into any lodge in my State. he would not get into any lodge I have ever visited.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Freemasons have no rule that specifies which religion is allowed and which is not. So theoretically if a man claimed to believe in god and presented himself as an upright citizen he could petition a lodge for membership. All he would need to do then is get 100% of the Christians, Catholics, Jews etc to vote for him.

Well isnt that religion discrimination, like your religion is bad,it's like the massons decide what religion is good and what religion is bad, plus is that vote based on the religion the person is or based on what kind of person that person is.
Why do you doubt that person could make it as a member since massonary is not about religion preference? You just have to belive in a god , any god will do isn't that correct?








[edit on 24-4-2007 by pepsi78]

We are very discriminatory. We dont let men join who do not meet our standards. We do not let men join if even ONE member does not want him in. We do not let women in. We do not let men in who can not meet their financial obligations. We do not allow drunkards, drug abusers atheists or libertines. We take great pride in this.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by RWPBR]