Originally posted by RWPBR
We are very discriminatory. We dont let men join who do not meet our standards. We do not let men join if even ONE member does not want him in. We do not let women in. We do not let men in who can not meet their financial obligations. We do not allow drunkards, drug abusers atheists or libertines. We take great pride in this.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by RWPBR]

I don't really care on the other aspects of how a person has to be soccialy to join.


Your answer is in a very big array of things making 1 question look silly.
I've actualy wanted to debate on 1 question I was addressing, is massonary discriminatory on some sort of religions?, that is what I was asking, can you answer me on that question, if yes why?
If the answer is no then I guess any one beliving in a god(fit and seen by him the good one)even a satanist could join with out problem.


[edit on 24-4-2007 by pepsi78]

I have already answered this. I think you are not getting the answer you want but you are getting answers.

Originally posted by RWPBR
I have already answered this. I think you are not getting the answer you want but you are getting answers.

At your above post before mine there is everything listed in your quote except religion, everything except my question.
here let me show you, your quote.

We are very discriminatory. We dont let men join who do not meet our standards. We do not let men join if even ONE member does not want him in. We do not let women in. We do not let men in who can not meet their financial obligations. We do not allow drunkards, drug abusers atheists or libertines. We take great pride in this.

See, I was right.
I take it that yes you do mind what type of religion a person is, god is so hard to get a straight aswer from you guys.
I don't mind you not answering me straight, it's just that many users form opinons on how you answer, hey not my loss.



[edit on 24-4-2007 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by RWPBR

No we wouldnt. Plain and simple answer. He would not get into my Lodge.
He would not get into any lodge in my State. he would not get into any lodge I have ever visited.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Page 2 of this thread. Do you want me to send it to you VIA certified mail ?

Originally posted by RWPBR

Originally posted by RWPBR

No we wouldnt. Plain and simple answer. He would not get into my Lodge.
He would not get into any lodge in my State. he would not get into any lodge I have ever visited.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by RWPBR]

Page 2 of this thread. Do you want me to send it to you VIA certified mail ?

Well yes....you do mind and other mason do as well, and since you do mind on religion when accepting some one in the lodge...well
Only religion is discriminatory on other religions, and of course people that don't belive in god at all.
Since you do belive in a god, I can only see this as a religios preference, religion in the lodge.......



[edit on 24-4-2007 by pepsi78]

Whatever. Regardless of the answer you will find something to criticize.
You ask questions when you dont really care about the answer. You are being intellectually dishonest. I for one will no longer be an enabler for you exercise in mental masturbation.

Pepsi

Any man who fits the membership criteria is eligible to join freemasonry. That is to say:

* Believes in a Supreme Being
* Is of mature age
* Is of a high moral character
* Is of sound judgement

Once they fit the membership criteria, they must then find a lodge to join. This will involve:

* Meeting with the approval of an investigation committee
* Being proposed in Open Lodge
* Passing an unanimous or near-unanimous vote of lodge members

No matter what religion a man is, if he can pass these hurdles he can become a mason. Membership of some religions might by definition cause a man to be ineligible, but if a Satanist can pass the membership criteria and convince an investigating committee and a lodge that he would make a good mason then, yes, he can join.

And no, I've never heard of a satanic freemason either...

Originally posted by Trinityman
Pepsi

Any man who fits the membership criteria is eligible to join freemasonry. That is to say:

* Believes in a Supreme Being
* Is of mature age
* Is of a high moral character
* Is of sound judgement

Once they fit the membership criteria, they must then find a lodge to join. This will involve:

* Meeting with the approval of an investigation committee
* Being proposed in Open Lodge
* Passing an unanimous or near-unanimous vote of lodge members

No matter what religion a man is, if he can pass these hurdles he can become a mason. Membership of some religions might by definition cause a man to be ineligible, but if a Satanist can pass the membership criteria and convince an investigating committee and a lodge that he would make a good mason then, yes, he can join.

And no, I've never heard of a satanic freemason either...

You runined it all , what a nice text, however you are being unclear in your explaining when saying "Membership of some religions might by definition cause a man to be ineligible"
You use words like "might" you your self don't know how to put it right, and you are just forcing the limit of your words to the limit that they might seem right.
It's either elegible or it's not, it's so funny looking at that part of the quote, it's like you have to be polite in public and not say it all the way.
My conclusion based on your statement then is in some parts of the world some lodges with some masons on a personal level "might" be expresing religios feelings when dealing with masonic dutys, how religios is that....





[edit on 24-4-2007 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Satan is basically a creation of Christianity, loosely based upon the deities of the ancients, especially the Greek Pan and Egyptian Set.

Most "Satan worshipers" tend to be Christians in denial, going through a rebellious stage. That's why most of them tend to be teenagers from Christian homes, and with emotional problems. Usually it's just a phase and they grow out of it quickly. Unfortunately, some of them do some very nasty things though, such as animal sacrifice.

Real "orthodox" Satanism is a religion founded by Anton Szandor LaVey in 1966. He was the first High Priest of the Church of Satan, and generated a large following among the counterculture.

These Satanists do not literally believe in the existence of the Christian devil, nor do they worship him. They are atheistic, and believe that Christianity is an organized hypocrisy. To them, Satan is simply a symbol of personal liberty against arbitrary authority, and one of freedom from cultural norms.

A second group which grew out of the Church of Satan is the Temple of Set, founded by Dr. Michael Aquino, a former priest in the Church of Satan, in 1975. The Setians are similar to the Satanists i9n many aspects, but are more metaphysical and philosophical. They also found the need to eliminate all references to Christianity, as they consider it completely irrelevant. They therefore refer to Set, the Egyptian god whom the Hebrews based their "Satan" on (it is taken from the sacramental name "Set-Hen").

Delighted to read your introduction.
Replies like this make my ATS membership worth GOLD haha

Masonry is "religious" . Nobody is argueing with that. Anybody who has went through the degrees has to admit that. It is not however a Religion.

Every High School Football game I ever went to back in the day opened with a prayer, but High School Football is not a religion. Every NASCAR race opens with a prayer, but it too is not a religion.

Originally posted by RWPBR
Masonry is "religious" . Nobody is argueing with that. Anybody who has went through the degrees has to admit that. It is not however a Religion.

Every High School Football game I ever went to back in the day opened with a prayer, but High School Football is not a religion. Every NASCAR race opens with a prayer, but it too is not a religion.

Good analogy and explanation.

Thanks for the post.

Every High School Football game I ever went to back in the day opened with a prayer, but High School Football is not a religion. Every NASCAR race opens with a prayer, but it too is not a religion.

It's one thing opening it with prayer and another thing playing it religios, since it does not affect the game of course it's not religios, because the game it's self is not influenced by religion unlike masonary.

Masonary is influenced directly by religion as in you use religion to do the playing, you don't actuly use religion on a football field, in masonary it's different, you do use religion since some religions are unaceptable, you preform your masonic duties under religion the actions taken are a result of religion.

I guess when a person is denied the right of becoming a mason in this case I can only see religion at work.
What religion is practiced there, I do not know, only you guys do, we may only guess

Here
By one of the bigest masons.
Quoted by pike:
"Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods: darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive"


[edit on 25-4-2007 by pepsi78]

If you have all the answers they why do you pretend to ask questions ?
In your bigoted mind we are evil and you just pretend to be curious so you can pounce on what ever we say and twist it to suit your agenda.

If we did let Satanists in, then of course we are EVIL.
If we dont let Satanists in then we are making a judgement on religion and because in your fractured view of reality only religions judge others by their religion so we must be a religion and because it is not your religion then, you guessed it, we must be EVIL.

You are narrow minded and intolerant of others views and beliefs.
What ever your faith is you represent it poorly.

If masonary would just be a social club of men to only deal with social issues I would understand, it's not exactly the craft of social things, but it is also social, but not in esence.

If masonary would be just a social club then it would not care about religion at all if some one is cristian, budist etc....
But it's not, any one can see that.

People gather there just to form a club of men to better them self how? as man is sociaty?or what? I don't see moral and dogma as a book on how to become social, I only see it how to become a better man on religion(from a mason's point of view), since it's field up with religion from the start of the page to the end of it, and trust me I have looked a bit on that book.


People have every right to suspect the brotherhood, and to suspect the intentions they have are not very healthy for the others since the brotherhood is not just a social, metropolitan gathering.

Originally posted by pepsi78
You runined it all , what a nice text, however you are being unclear in your explaining when saying "Membership of some religions might by definition cause a man to be ineligible" You use words like "might" you your self don't know how to put it right, and you are just forcing the limit of your words to the limit that they might seem right.

I'm not too sure what you are getting at here Pepsi. I was talking in general terms rather than about a specific religion. I'll give you an example if it helps. My understanding of Buddhism is that it does not recognize the existence of a Supreme Being. If this is the case then a Buddhist cannot be a freemason.

It's either elegible or it's not, it's so funny looking at that part of the quote, it's like you have to be polite in public and not say it all the way.

I am always polite in public Pepsi, I'm a freemason

My conclusion based on your statement then is in some parts of the world some lodges with some masons on a personal level "might" be expresing religios feelings when dealing with masonic dutys, how religios is that....

I'm not entirely sure how you reached that conclusion based on my comments. However you are right - freemasonry does engender religious feelings, as it states quite clearly up front that it is a supporter of Religion and expects a man to follow his pre-existing faith. The morality lessons found in freemasonry come straight from the Bible, and the ritual is littered with biblical characters and references.

[edit typo]

[edit on 4/25/07 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Masonary ...

It's Masonry, Pepsi, Masonry. There's no A. You've been around here long enough to know that.

Masonary is influenced directly by religion ...

You put your letter A in the wrong place. Try this version - "Masonry is influenced directly by A religion". It's called Christianity, and it has also been influenced directly and indirectly by a large number of other things too. I don't think anyone has denied this.

... since some religions are unaceptable, you preform your masonic duties under religion the actions taken are a result of religion.

What do you mean by 'under religion'? Do you mean 'subservient to religion'? If so, what does this actually mean?

I guess when a person is denied the right of becoming a mason in this case I can only see religion at work.

No one has the 'right' to be a freemason, it is a privilege conferred by a private group. Where do you get this stuff from?

What religion is practiced there, I do not know, only you guys do, we may only guess

O - o - o - irrelevant hyperbole and sensationalism. Nice one Pepsi. Let's get everyone over-excited and pumped up about the big bad masons.

The activities that occur inside a masonic lodge are well documented and have been discussed at length here at ATS. Get your searching hat on!

Here
By one of the bigest masons.
Quoted by pike.. (snipped Pike quote regularly taken out of context by people with some sort of anti-masonic agenda) ... .

Who was Pike? He's quite unheard of in the UK

[edit on 4/25/07 by Trinityman]

My understanding of Buddhism is that it does not recognize the existence of a Supreme Being. If this is the case then a Buddhist cannot be a freemason.

Why does one have to belive in a spureme being to join the masons can you answer that?

The morality lessons found in freemasonry come straight from the Bible, and the ritual is littered with biblical characters and references.

1
I will show you a couple of posts from you and from your fellow masons where you disregard the bible, it's good to use the bible when it suits you?
I see

2
here from your book of "morals" and dogma
"Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods : darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive. "

I'm not going to get in to" the text is evil", but this is incompatible with the bible

Where does it say in the bible that lucifer is god and that adonay is also god?
Where in the bible does it say that white can't exist with out black.

I can't picture acording to you that "The morality lessons found in freemasonry come straight from the Bible"

I must contradict you trinity man, you are incorrect on this, it must be something else.....

Quoted by pike.. (snipped Pike quote regularly taken out of context by people with some sort of anti-masonic agenda) ... .
Who was Pike? He's quite unheard of in the UK

I don't see how things are taken out of context when words in that book are clear, if they were not clear I would udnerstand, of course with out any way to respond you chose to say" they were out of contex" with out any way to prove it, or better put he was quoting some one else

Can you please show me it's out of contex? and why is it out of contex?


[edit on 25-4-2007 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by pepsi78
Why does one have to belive in a spureme being to join the masons can you answer that?

Whats a 'spureme'?

OK - seriously. From the website of the UGLE...

Freemasonry is a society of men concerned with moral and spiritual values. Its members are taught its precepts by a series of ritual dramas, which follow ancient forms, and use stonemasons' customs and tools as allegorical guides.

The essential qualification for admission into and continuing membership is a belief in a Supreme Being.

The essence of the teachings of the ritual is man's subservient relationship with his creator. These lessons would have no meaning to a man without such a belief.

I will show you a couple of posts from you and from your fellow masons where you disregard the bible, it's good to use the bible when it suits you?

Jolly good. Off you go then.

here from your book of "morals" and dogma
... (blah blah snip same quote from Pike again)...

I'm not going to get in to" the text is evil", but this is incompatible with the bible

You'd better break this Mr. Pike's quote down for me and tell me exactly what it is that he is saying, O great interpreter of 19th century masonic writings.

Where does it say in the bible that lucifer is god and that adonay is also god?
Where in the bible does it say that white can't exist with out black.

The same place that is says 'Freemasonry is Evil'

I can't picture acording to you that "The morality lessons found in freemasonry come straight from the Bible"

Sorry you didn't like that piece of factual information about freemasonry from a freemason.

I must contradict you trinity man, you are incorrect on this, it must be something else.....

... and you know this... how?...

... maaan, you're a hoot!!!