Obama raises over $25 Million *UPDATE*

Originally posted by semperfoo
25 big ones from special interest. Who do you think he will pledge his allegiance to? It aint the american ppl..

SF,

er, the way I read it, it's Hillary whose campaign contributions mostly come from PAC's and Lobbyists...Obama's contributions come mostly from individuals.

Looks like maybe he's the "people's choice" instead of the "lobbyists' choice"!

You may want to read the details again.

Originally posted by SteveR
Are you ruthless or what?

Yep. Straight to the point.

I think you are missing the point Libra is making. None of that really matters.

I fully understand the point Libra is making. I disagree. An empty resume DOES matter when someone wants to be POTUS. It matters
VERY much. No financial platform DOES matter. Belonging to a 'church'
that espouses (paraphrase) 'Africa is our true homeland' and 'blacks first'
MATTERS. Replace those phrases with 'Germany is our true homeland'
and 'whites first' .... SCARY and unacceptable!! Same with that 'church'
Obama is a member of.

I think it would be nice to see the West care about Africa for once.

I think it would be nice to see America care about AMERICANS for once.

We just sent billions in aid to find a cure for AIDS in Africa.
We forgive debts - like to Egypt.
Plenty of $$$ is donated. Plenty of people volunteer.

It's not the job of middle class America to fully support all of Africa.

I think it would be nice to see the West demand an end to African slavery,
which is still widely practiced over there, before any more aid money
goes over.

Stop sending aid overseas. Stop spending in nation building. Stop giving
it all away. Have you seen Baltimore - OMG!?! ... the money that went to
Africa could have gone to AMERICANS who are desperate. And the poor
AMERICANS in the Appalachians?!? And our failing public education system! And our infrastructure that can't handle a heat wave. And our
city bridges and tunnels. The jobs that could be created by spending
it here on infrastructure! Spend it HERE .. on AMERICANS.

I think it would be nice to see Americans care about AMERICA for once.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by SteveR
I think you are missing the point Libra is making. None of that really matters.

I fully understand the point Libra is making. I disagree. An empty resume DOES matter when someone wants to be POTUS.

Ah, but see, here's the rub. It matters to you, and others with a similar mindset to you. I'm not saying that you're wrong, rather I'm saying that you don't speak for everyone. To many people (at least 100,000 of them) it really doesn't matter.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It matters VERY much. No financial platform DOES matter. Belonging to a 'church'
that espouses (paraphrase) 'Africa is our true homeland' and 'blacks first'
MATTERS. Replace those phrases with 'Germany is our true homeland'
and 'whites first' .... SCARY and unacceptable!! Same with that 'church'
Obama is a member of.

Man, you really gotta get past that whole church thing. It's a weak argument at best, and kinda makes you look racist at worst. I'm not saying you are racist, mind you, I'm just saying that your repeated and vehement fixation on the whole black church thing could make you look like one to some people.

The fact is, the church is in a poor black community dedicated towards trying to teach black people they don't have to be victims of some preconceived notion that, in the words of Notorious B.I.G. "To get ahead, you got to either have that jump shot or sling that crack rock." It's a community of people descended from people forcibly brought over from Africa, and whom have watched it degrade further and further into what is arguably the worst place on Earth to live in.

Now most people are sheep, be they black, white, or whatever. Simply telling them "stop shooting each other, stop doing drugs, and stop robbing one another," isn't going to work. There's laws and police officers that already say that all day long with little to no effect.

Instead, what this church tries to do is convey strong moral and ethical values, and associate them with black people, so that the two are not seen as seperate, but rather one in the same. A child raised in such a church, through repetition of that Mission Statement you hate so much, learns to associate the truth "black values" as being good moral and ethical choices, rather than the "bust caps, bust back" mentality of Biggie Smalls.

Now if you can't see this, and can't accept that black people would actually want to rise above the morass of drugs, theft, and murder they are constantly associated and bombarded with in popular culture, or that they could have possibly found a way to change that mindset in a positive rather than negative fashion, that's your choice. You can continue to assume (IMO wrongly) that the only possible message that could come out of such a church is that of racism and hate. But don't impose that view upon the rest of the world, because some people are a little more open minded than that.

At the very least, try to accept that not everyone feels the same way as you about the Church thing, and their acceptance of it is not neccessarily blind ignorance or Black Pantheresque leanings.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I think it would be nice to see the West care about Africa for once.

I think it would be nice to see America care about AMERICANS for once.

We just sent billions in aid to find a cure for AIDS in Africa.
We forgive debts - like to Egypt.
Plenty of $$$ is donated. Plenty of people volunteer.

It's not the job of middle class America to fully support all of Africa.

Africa has been caught in constant warfare, genocide, drought, and famine largely due to the exploitation and ignorance of white people, for so long, that it has become ingrained now in the politic of the land.

But again, I see your point America needs to support Americans first, and worry about other nations second. And I wholeheartedly agree.

However, I'd like to present an additional perspective on this. Africa is one of the most resource-rich continents on the planet. Now, unfortunately, most of the harvested resources are lost either through corruption, black markets, smuggling, or outright destruction. What few resources do get through are typically exported either without the consent of the governments in charge, or the proceeds are used to line the pockets of the corrupt governments.

Eventually, Africa won't be so eff'd up. Eventually, through self-enlightenment, outside intervention, and a lot of people trying to do the right thing, African nations will be able to stand on their own, support themselves, and begin healthy and legal commerce in the world market, with massive amounts of resources at their disposal.

Now, if America plays a major role in "fixing" Africa, or even just a few select nations like Nigeria, Egypt, South Africa, and whatever name "The Congo" is going by at the time, this would provide a HUGE stabilizing force with some of the richest resources available, and a fantastic trade partner. And whom do you think they will give favored trade status to, but the nation that has helped them the most.

Thus, completely ignoring the humanitarian effect (which personally is still a big motivator for me), I believe that aid to Africa is an investment in the well-being of Americans down the road. However, I think we should be going about it a completely different and more efficient way. I don't agree with just dumping money and resources in the hands of various African governments without accountability. I do believe, however that it is a seperate investment budget from the one we use to help present-day Americans, in the same way that I consider my grocery budget seperate from the budget I use to invest in stocks with.

It's still caring about Americans, it's just more in terms of investing in the future of future Americans.

[edit on 4/5/2007 by thelibra]

Originally posted by thelibra



Man, you really gotta get past that whole church thing. It's a weak argument at best, and kinda makes you look racist at worst. I'm not saying you are racist, mind you, I'm just saying that your repeated and vehement fixation on the whole black church thing could make you look like one to some people.

The fact is, the church is in a poor black community dedicated towards trying to teach black people they don't have to be victims of some preconceived notion that, in the words of Notorious B.I.G. "To get ahead, you got to either have that jump shot or sling that crack rock." It's a community of people descended from people forcibly brought over from Africa, and whom have watched it degrade further and further into what is arguably the worst place on Earth to live in.

Now most people are sheep, be they black, white, or whatever. Simply telling them "stop shooting each other, stop doing drugs, and stop robbing one another," isn't going to work. There's laws and police officers that already say that all day long with little to no effect.

Instead, what this church tries to do is convey strong moral and ethical values, and associate them with black people, so that the two are not seen as seperate, but rather one in the same. A child raised in such a church, through repetition of that Mission Statement you hate so much, learns to associate the truth "black values" as being good moral and ethical choices, rather than the "bust caps, bust back" mentality of Biggie Smalls.

Now if you can't see this, and can't accept that black people would actually want to rise above the morass of drugs, theft, and murder they are constantly associated and bombarded with in popular culture, or that they could have possibly found a way to change that mindset in a positive rather than negative fashion, that's your choice. You can continue to assume (IMO wrongly) that the only possible message that could come out of such a church is that of racism and hate. But don't impose that view upon the rest of the world, because some people are a little more open minded than that.


[edit on 4/5/2007 by thelibra]

Wow you just wrote exactly what i have been trying to say. I agree, I think some people are taking the values of the black church to another level, as if they were spewing 'kill whitey' from the pulpit and that is NOT the case.

Originally posted by thelibra
To many people (at least 100,000 of them) it really doesn't matter.

Which is insane. Really. Not caring if someone has the qualifications and experience necessary to run the entire country ... that's nutz.

you really gotta get past that whole church thing. It's a weak argument at best, and kinda makes you look racist at worst.

Exposing the racism in THEM doesn't make me racist.

But whatever. I can't wait for this guy to be really vetted. There are plenty of dems who have resumes and experience that show they are qualified. Hopefully people will take the time to understand what is required of a person in the position of POTUS and they will look at the experience each candidate offers. Hopefully they will be smart enough to see that Obama has an empty resume and they will move on.

Give him 8 years and he may indeed be quallified. But just meeting the requirements as set in the constitution doesn't make him qualified.

----->FlyersFan

1) What about his church is racist. Specifically, have you seen/heard anything that the pastor or obama has said or written that is racist if you have , I would like to see some examples.

2)Who is THEM that you are referring to Im gonna need for you not to make broad generalizations esp. when it comes to the topic of race. So if you could specify who the THEM is that you are referring to I'd deeply apprciate it.

3) Have you ever been to an all-black church? Im just wondering b/c you seem to be assuming things that aren't necassarily true.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Which is insane. Really. Not caring if someone has the qualifications and experience necessary to run the entire country ... that's nutz.

Not really. The President doesn't "run the entire country". No one person does, unless you buy into certain conspiracies. The President signs bills, makes policy decisions, and leads our troops in times of war. Other than that, he's pretty much a talking head that occasionally interacts with other nations.

It's not like he needs to memorize much of anything. People write speeches for the Prez, and the Prez reads them off of teleprompters. They have minders who do things like remember names, faces, and policies and recent politics for those people. They have advisors (their cabinet) whom explain from science to religion to military consequences. They have brain trusts to come up with ideas for them, and filters to run those ideas through before the Prez even considers them. He doesn't make laws, that's the job of Congress an the Senate. He doesn't decide Constitutionality, that's the job of the Judicial Branch...

...he really doesn't do much of anything except act as our chief binary decision maker and diplomat, and there's a whole slew of people in place to "help" him make that decision. In fact, up until 9/11, about the only thing Bush did was take extended vacations at Camp David or his ranch.

It's not like neurosurgery, or engineering, or chemistry, or any of those occupations where, if you don't know what you're doing, you simply can't do the job. President of the United States is one of the few occupations you can quite literally pick an average Joe off the street, stick him in office, and still manage to have the country run itself just fine, because ultimately, as the previous administration has shown, the only real qualification is that you have an opinion about something. It doesn't have to be a valid or educated opinion.

And a lot of people realize this. They realized that, in politics, "qualified" and "mired in scandal and corruption" are pretty much one in the same. A fresh-face that hasn't had time to become caught up in scandals, hasn't had time to offend a lot of people, and brings ideas outside the box straight to the table, because he doesn't realize what "can't" be done, is very appealing to a lot of people. He doesn't have a lot of people to pay back favors to, he doesn't have to blindly tout the party line, and has a lot of leeway to set a whole new era in how the President does business.

Keep in mind that there were MANY times in our country's history where the President wasn't remotely "qualified" in terms of being a seasoned congressmen, diplomat, or even all that educated or charismatic, but that didn't stop people from voting for them, and the country didn't completely fall apart either.

Likewise, there are MANY times in our country's history where perfectly "qualified" politicians were elected and proceded to make some of the worst decisions and cause some of the worst crises our country has ever faced.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

you really gotta get past that whole church thing. It's a weak argument at best, and kinda makes you look racist at worst.

Exposing the racism in THEM doesn't make me racist.

No, but inventing racism where there is a perfectly otherwise plausible explanation does sorta make you look like one. It's a little-known psychological trend that the things we repeatedly harp on other people about is a reflection of our own inner demons.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
But whatever. I can't wait for this guy to be really vetted. There are plenty of dems who have resumes and experience that show they are qualified.

Explain "qualified". That's a real easy word to throw around, but I'd like to know what your opinion of "qualified" is, because as far as I know, the only qualifications for President, as outlined in the highest law of the land, the Constitution, is that the person be 35 and a natural citizen. There might be something about criminal in there somewhere, but if we didn't let criminals into politics, we'd have a largely empty government.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Give him 8 years and he may indeed be quallified. But just meeting the requirements as set in the constitution doesn't make him qualified.

Then what does?

Does he need to be mired in enough political circles to owe lots of favors to people? Does he need a few scandals under his belt? Does he need to have all his dreams about what a politician is capable of be stripped away and dulled by the excruciating process of being a senator? Does he need to first surround himself with yes-men, and direct all questions to them? Does he need to have lots of pork to his name so that his home state knows he'll bring home the bacon? Does he need to make promises to corporations and other politicians that he'll have to keep later on?

What do you count as "qualified"? Because personally, I see no difference between a "Career Senator" and BOB in terms of who could run the country better.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
He's getting all this money? For what???

His resume is practically empty.
He's has no economic platform.
He belongs to a 'church' that espouses being faithful first to his 'real homeland - africa'
He's a recovering crack-head. (to his credit at least he doesn't say something lame like 'I didn't inhale'.)

All he's running on is - hey, vote for me, I'm half black.
(Actually, he's burying the half white part.)

People are actually giving him money ... boggles the mind!

Ok, I agree with the first three points, but a recovering crack-head? Where did you hear that one from. Not that I am doubting your sources, but that seems like a real doozy to have the media overlook.

I heard that the majority of his $$$ came from his black panther church, which has the "Down with Whitey" mentality.

I would love to see this man keep doing his thing, but somethign tells me that some serious dirt on him is going to come out before the primaries.

Keep bring in the bread Barack...you'll need it.

--->Don Wahn

In his book he stated that he had a problem with coc aine in college.

Plus here is more about the ideology of his church which some of you think is racist--

• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

www.tucc.org...