Radar Invented To Detect Stealth Aircraft!!

I received an email the other day from M. Jankiraman Ph.D., who is a Senior Algorithmic Engineer, with TenXc Wireless Inc., Canada, who has invented a radar called PANDORA which is a multi frequency high resolution LPI radar that can detect stealth aircraft!

He has also written a book, "Design of Multi-Frequency Radars” which has been reviewed by David Lynch. Lynch is a Life Fellow of IEEE and carries the title awarded to him by the world radar community of "Pioneer of Stealth". He is the guy who designed the radars used in the B2 bomber and F117 stealth fighter.

As per him, “these types of radars can detect a target without revealing their own presence. Hence, the word "stealth". The additional point here is that it can also detect stealth aircraft which are normally immune to radar detection, because of the extremely high resolution of the Pandora radar.”

I wonder what the next step will be to make aircraft stealthier? What will be the status of the present stealth capabilities of the billion dollar B-2 and the F-117 once the radar is operational?

Cheers!

This design doesn't seem that good to me.

Stealth aircraft aren't invisible to radar, thats practically impossible to do, what they actually do is reduce the strength of the reflected radar signal to a minimal value. If the reflected signal is reduced enough, the radar will disregard the signal along with the returns of birds, trees, clouds and anything else which returns a small radar return.

The F-117s radar return is supposedly the same size as a bumble bee and the B-2 the same as a ball bearing. If all PANDORA has done is increase the resolution of the radar, yes it will be able to detect stealth aircraft, but it will also show up every bird, bee, wasp etc etc. making it very confusing for the radar operator to detect anything.

Originally posted by gfad
TIf all PANDORA has done is increase the resolution of the radar, yes it will be able to detect stealth aircraft, but it will also show up every bird, bee, wasp etc etc. making it very confusing for the radar operator to detect anything.

Probably there's some technology incorporated in the system to filter out the 'noise'? Since David Lynch has commented on it positively, there's got to be something more there!

Cheers!

Originally posted by gfad
The F-117s radar return is supposedly the same size as a bumble bee and the B-2 the same as a ball bearing. If all PANDORA has done is increase the resolution of the radar, yes it will be able to detect stealth aircraft, but it will also show up every bird, bee, wasp etc etc. making it very confusing for the radar operator to detect anything.

Umm, not a radar expert here, but it shouldn't be too complicated to design hardware and/or software to figure out which bumble bees are going 700mph, and which ones you could catch with a fly swatter.

ROFL exactly what i was thinking.

"Deploy the decoy bees"

Perhaps thats why all the bees are going missing, have they all been shot down, by stinger missiles?

ill get my coat......

[edit on 3-4-2007 by 2ciewan]

Most radar systems automatically blot out radar returns of a certain size. And since stealth aircraft until the F-22 were all subsonic they were going slow enough that by the time they were detected it was way too late to do anything about them. There was no 700 mph radar return to make anyone suspicious. The F-22 just makes that more of a problem being supersonic.

There are some UWB radars that haven't hit the runway yet that are supposed to be able to spot Ufimtsev-type stealth aircraft. They're also "ZPI" supposedly, which I'm sure will make people happy/sad depending on whether or not they've got any.

Also, isn't AESA supposed to be able to spot low observables at medium range?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Most radar systems automatically blot out radar returns of a certain size. And since stealth aircraft until the F-22 were all subsonic they were going slow enough that by the time they were detected it was way too late to do anything about them. There was no 700 mph radar return to make anyone suspicious. The F-22 just makes that more of a problem being supersonic.

Yes..... But...

Even if the B2/F117 were subsonic, they still go at a few hundred miles an hour. Still pretty easy to determine if it's a bee or not, seeing as Bee's do about 15Mph.

CELLDAR is another technology that can detect stealth and is passive, in that it uses the already existing EM waves generated by TV/Cellphone mast's. To the aircraft, it would not know it has been seen.

The problem has never been detection, as LW radar can detect stealth, they just cannot translate that into accurate enough targetting data. Hence why when a stealth aircraft is used, they skirt around the RADAR envelopes rather than just plowing through.

If you have a system that can tell you roughly where a stealth aircraft is and then use optical/IR guided missiles (such as the Rapier), you might be on to a winner, but you'd still have a major problem. The Rapier, for example, has a very limited range. You'd need hundreds of batteries everywhere in your country to ensure that you had cover. That cost's mucho dinero.

It's all very well being able to "see" stealth aircraft (any country worth it's salt can do that), but being able to reliably target and bring down one is another matter.

The stealths have several passive IR suppression systems though. Yeah, they'll pick them up, but they won't have the 700 mph bumble bee that was commented on, and the range they pick them up at will be so low that you'd have to have your defensive systems ready and up, and you'll be lucky if they hadn't already launched with the new weapons that they can carry.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
The stealths have several passive IR suppression systems though. Yeah, they'll pick them up, but they won't have the 700 mph bumble bee that was commented on, and the range they pick them up at will be so low that you'd have to have your defensive systems ready and up, and you'll be lucky if they hadn't already launched with the new weapons that they can carry.

IR SUPRESSION being the key word (supressed is not eliminated). However, the Rapier also has optical guidance, which cannot be surpressed. Indeed though, the use of short range systems is pretty useless, unless you have nationwide coverage. Which for a short ranged system is unfeasable due to cost and numbers.

However....

The use of CELLDAR or any other new system to detect stealth can give a very good indication of the target. If, somehow, you could use a long range SAM that would somehow guide itself to the "rough" location (al la Cruise missile) and then use onboard IR/Optical guidance once within range, you might have a system there.....

EDIT: Aircraft have no way of knowing if they are being targetted by IR/Optical systems. Their RADAR can tell them if a missile is incoming, but that is not as much help as knowing before it is launched.

[edit on 3/4/07 by stumason]

You won't get a return for a bee travelling at 700 mph because of the way radars work. At least during the development of the A-12 radars rotated and took sweeps of the sky, if the radar return was small enough and the plane was travelling fast enough it would just appear as random noise and be blocked out.

Also although celldar is an interesting development, has it even been used in the real world yet?

Originally posted by mikesingh
As per him, “these types of radars can detect a target without revealing their own presence. Hence, the word "stealth". The additional point here is that it can also detect stealth aircraft which are normally immune to radar detection, because of the extremely high resolution of the Pandora radar.”

Sorry, but for all the hype, this statement is incorrect as it now stands. Stealth Aircraft are NOT immune to detection. This is one on the most common myths about stealth technology. What stealth actually dose is make an aircraft look much smaller on radar so that it can hide in that backgound noise within the radar system.

To use a fair analogy: Let's say airplanes are like birds. OK?

Now, if a regular airplane is about the size of a Eagle, A stealth plane like a B-2 might be about the size of a smaller Humming Bird.

Both can be seen, if you are close enough! Now, at longer range, you can still see the eagle, as it is a Large Bird. The Humming Bird on the other hand will be too small to see at long range, as it is much smaller.

Stealth works on the same principle. They make themselves seem so small that the computer can't indetify them against the background.

Tim

Agreed! But that's the issue that's probably been addressed to in the new system. The parameters for target acquisition ab-initio are:

Search
Identification
Target Evaluation
Tracking

As we know, the amount of energy reflected by an object depends on its physical size and reflectivity, which determine the radar cross section (RCS) of an object. If the RCS is small, its obvious that all four of the above parameters will be more difficult to realise. And add to that the non reflective radar paint on the aircraft!

So its possible that the new radar employs a system to mitigate the shortcomings of the present generation of radars whereby it can make out the difference between the birds and the bees, and the eagles amidst all the 'noise' and ground clutter!

Cheers!

Originally posted by gfad

Also although celldar is an interesting development, has it even been used in the real world yet?

I know the UK is very advanced (Siemens are involed in this work, I believe, amongst others) in development of it's application and also China is runoured to be well advanced also.

EDIT: I might add that if the UK and China have programmes, others will do too.

The use of passive/background (such as TV/Cell towers) EM as a form of detection is not a new idea and has been in development for the best part of a decade, at least in the UK.

[edit on 4/4/07 by stumason]