IL-CHIP....for the kids...

i wonder what kind of assurance you believe you have that you can possibly contain _any_ data. the guy with the machine has it you don't know if copies exist and in fact you'll have to simnply trust the guy operating it.


the only way to make sure this data will not be used is not to let it come into (digital) existance. there are many many instances where governments among others are trying to cling to every little tidbit they can set their sights on.

Britain plans fingerprinting all 11 year olds by 2010


i have yet to see a credible reason why they'd introduce such a costly, controversial scheme, because quite frankly, all of this does nothing to protect a potential victim, even continuous surveillance fails when you either lose signal or are unable to arrive within a reasonable timeframe. years ago, two teenagers planted a toddler right on top of a railway, in front of a surveillance camera. guess what the train got there first, phoning the train would have been nice, though, but it should be noted that these particular capabilities, namely inter-service communication and quick reaction aren't top priorities, apparently.

PS: there IS always a reason, if they aren't telling why they want to push surveillance at any cost, they are hiding their intentions as well as too damn lazy to invent a reasonable excuse.

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I see nothing here that says any child will be tagged.

Not this year Grady, you are right. But eventually.
Its the conditioning that I am against.
Conditioning kids on a number of levels until eventually it will be a chip.
I mean, we have all seen the clip of Andy Rooney pushing the chip, and the family in Fla, and half a dozen others.

I forgot about the Andy Rooney episode, but I vaguely remember watching it. When was that?

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Originally posted by 11Bravo
I mean, we have all seen the clip of Andy Rooney pushing the chip, and the family in Fla, and half a dozen others.

I forgot about the Andy Rooney episode, but I vaguely remember watching it. When was that?

Well I tried six times to get the video to work but alas I failed.
Have a link.
video.google.com...

[edit on 15-7-2007 by 11Bravo]

Originally posted by jsobecky
It's a CD with the child's information on it. The parent's have the only copy.

If its a disk, then it was probably 'burned' with a computer.... meaning that the information was once on the hard drive and possible backed up to another source.

I don't see why they wouldn't keep the fingerprints.. after all, it will keep the other children 'safe' encase that child is to be a criminal.
What do they do with the fingerprints if they need to be used? Scan them into th criminal database so they can be matched?

Why a fingerprint... in an emergency, they should start looking, not dusting the state for fingerprints in hope the find out where the child was.


Why not tell your kids... after all, its the illusion of safety that you are getting from this.. why not share it with your kids that they are 'safe' because, if they get kidnapped, we will be able to identify their body by the fingerprints.


whether this is just to collect information or is what 'they' say, I just don't think it will help much... picture and video is a good idea to get the community to help find your child if (s)he goes missing, not fingerprints.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by 11Bravo
My problem is two-fold here.
First off, we are instilling a sense of fear in our kids by telling them that they need to undergo this cataloging process in order to protect them.

You are instilling that fear into your kids if that is the way you present this to them. Personally, I wouldn't tell my kids they "needed to undergo a cataloging process in order to protect them". But that's just me.

Secondly, we are conditioning our kids to be submisive.

Kids are supposed to be submissive to their parents. But this program does nothing to encourage submissiveness.



Look at what the article says:

Best of all, it only takes 10-minutes and supplies parents with a complete child identification package that can be taken home or carried with the family on vacation. The information -- most of which is contained on a CD -- is compact and totally private. The IL CHIP program keeps only the parental permission form!

A charitable organization is providing an ID package, free of charge, to parents.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

Kids are "supposed" to be submissive to parents? Wow, maybe in the Victorian era when children were to be seen not heard.

I would like to believe at least some parents have evolved to recognise
children are meant to be encouraged to be individuals with their own character and personalities, which as behavioral therapists and researchers are aware, results in a more functional and healthy child and in turn adult. Children do not need to "submit" to be well behaved, considerate of others or grow up to be responsible......its called "good parenting" and that does not, in any way, involve being dominant over a child and forcing them to submit.

reply to post by 11Bravo


You are incorrect on both points. Look at the statistics about how many children go missing, run away, or are abducted every year. This program, which by the way, is endorsed by most Mayors, Governors, Police Chiefs and Fire Chiefs, helps parents get their children back. I can't imagine a better program anywhere out there that gaurantees the safe return of our children -- at no cost to anyone, except the Masons.

A very grateful retired Police Chief!

For one thing, I don't have any kids...At least, none that I'm aware of (I was in the Navy for 4 years & ...well, let's just leave it at that ).

Two, even if I did have any kids, you could bet your sweet bippy that I'd never get my kids "registered" with any government: For one, I'd refuse the Birth Certificate in favor of filing a Record of Live Birth at the County Records Office (This is a record, not a registration).

Three, I'd never apply for Social Security for my kids...Obtaining an SSN is not mandatory, cannot be coerced & by Law is not required for someone to get a job, set up a bank account or to do anything else that "authorities" normally ask your SSN for. In fact, it is against the law for anyone to ask for your SSN & I wouldn't want to force my kids into being submissive to the government anyway.

The parents are the best protection for the kids (as long as they fully accept the inherent responsibility), not some faceless office-clerk that has no real concern or commitment to the real safety, upbringing & well-being of someone else's kids. The best parents are ones that will let a child develop their own interests & pursuits as they grow up: Teach the basic 3-R's (readin', 'rightin' & 'rithmatic ), but otherwise the best thing to encourage is their curiosity. Basically, whenever you child asks you about something, you should first ask them "What do you think about it?" Let them develop their ability to think first, then you can help them find the answers. A parent can learn as much from their child as the child can learn from the parent! No teacher knows all of the answers, parents included...The best thing to do is to encourage & help your child to find the answers. The school system doesn't encourage free-thinking & if you want your child to really learn, then possessing the basis of free-thinking is the best way to learn.

In this case, of the Masons doing it for free, verifiably (at least, "verifiably" being a subjective term) not keeping or reporting any of the info to other organizations, I think is a good idea...But it would be much better for the kids if they can understand the "why" their parents do this. No "beating around the bush," just tell the kids the truth. Even just a simply-stated truth like, "We love you. The world has a lot of good people in it & there's a lot of bad people too. If one of the bad ones try to take you from us, this package can help us find you again."

Although, as Bumr055 pointed out, just a package of information is no good for trying to find the child again...This is why I wouldn't do it for my own (hypothetical) child. What would be of more practical use is a similar "package" about the kidnapper & I don't think a kidnapper would "volunteer" to generate such a package & leave such info behind at the scene of a kidnapping...

I think a good example of parenting would be when my sister got married & had a child: She & her husband would actually help teach their child about strangers that could be good or bad & helped develop certain strategies for safety. One such strategy is that the child was taught that Mommy or Daddy may not be able to pick him up at school themselves, but may send someone else...But the child may not know or recognize that person, so they had him think up a "codeword" that the stranger would have to know. If the stranger didn't know the codeword, then the child would just run back to other adults at the school & tell them about the stranger.

All in all, everyone has the ultimate responsibility for their own safety & well-being & it's best to help the child learn that as they're growing up...Children will eventually grow up & make a life of their own anyway, so it's best to teach them what they'll need to know during the time they're still growing. Encourage their curiosity so they can develop their own interests...Encourage their sense of the value of learning, instead of being taught by rote memory, so they can learn how to think for themselves & how to find the answers for their own questions. Kids are born with "opened eyes" upon the world they live in...To deny them the truth of that world is just another way of teaching them to "close their eyes," which is perhaps the most dangerous thing to do to a child.

[edit on 12-9-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]