Wow. You're really obssessed with this whole commie thing, aren't you, my friend?

I was, I am & I will be 4 ever !

Totalitarism is my ennemy and I don't forget what the Reds did and are still doing in many country.

Echelon, with a capitalist system, we can be what want we want. With a socialist/communist system, we'll be all the same. And " all the same " is meaning " all poors " except for the nomenklatura of course.

Peoples like you don't understand that we don't have any ressources on earth for everybody. We can provide goods and wealths to maximum 1 billions peoples and we are 7 !

So, the solutions are easy.

1) Everybody is poors execept the nomenklatura ( I don't want to be poor, and you ? )

2) We have to kill 5 to 6 billions peoples. ( I'm not a killer or a mass murderer, and you ? )

3) We keep our actual capitalist system, and we try to improve our technology, and we try to find new technologies who will help ALL OF US to have a decent live.

And don't forget, communism and socialism are NOT democratics. And don't start with your " Yeaaah, but you know, you don't understand the communism and so on "....These tricks aren't working with me. Anyway, you can't convince me because I know what's the socialism/communism. And I'm probably the most anti-communist guy from ATS ! So, try to convince someone else.

Socialism and communism are evils ( like nazism ) cuz they are against the humanbeing.

under capitalism, we are not entitled to any stable economic status.
meaning... we can have everything one day... the next, we could be dirt-poor, when it may not even be our fault.
and it has happend to many, and no one is held responsible for it.
why? because your gov't likes to show the blind eye towards big businesses, whom we have to rely on for everything.

"we don't have any ressources on earth for everybody."
that's quite sad, isn't it?
however, that's only true under capitalism.
the reason it works under socialism is because the gov't regulates it.
actually, under capitalism, there is more produced, but it's only made for profit. which means... higher prices.
capitalism is also the reason why we are running out of resources... because it applies a device called 'over-production'
and under socialism, there is nothing like that, because the gov't sets quotas on how much should be produced each year (seems much more organized than capitalism, doesn't it?)

and no gov't official is supposed to get paid more than a skilled worker. no... everyone else is not poor. no one has to suffer, and there is no reason for crime, because everyone gets what they need

"We keep our actual capitalist system, and we try to improve our technology, and we try to find new technologies who will help ALL OF US to have a decent live."
so has the soviet union (even though i don't think they were truly communist)... and guess who was always there to steal their technology.

"Socialism and communism are evils ( like nazism ) cuz they are against the humanbeing."
true socialism and communism is the most humane thing you can possibly encounter. it removes the barbaric competitions... and allows everyone to share the wealth.

if you still don't believe me, then you'd probably be happy living under the new capitalist world order.

uh, how is communism faring these days anyway?

Originally posted by Bob88
uh, how is communism faring these days anyway?

simple... there is no communist gov't today
only socialist... and feel free to list any that are doing worse than capitalist nations.

Originally posted by echelon
1) under capitalism, we are not entitled to any stable economic status.

2) meaning... we can have everything one day... the next, we could be dirt-poor, when it may not even be our fault.

3)"we don't have any ressources on earth for everybody." that's quite sad, isn't it?
however, that's only true under capitalism.
the reason it works under socialism is because the gov't regulates it. actually, under capitalism, there is more produced, but it's only made for profit. which means... higher prices.

capitalism is also the reason why we are running out of resources... because it applies a device called 'over-production'
and under socialism, there is nothing like that, because the gov't sets quotas on how much should be produced each year (seems much more organized than capitalism, doesn't it?)

4) everyone else is not poor. no one has to suffer, and there is no reason for crime, because everyone gets what they need

5) so has the soviet union (even though i don't think they were truly communist)... and guess who was always there to steal their technology.

6) if you still don't believe me, then you'd probably be happy living under the new capitalist world order.

1) What is really stable anyway ?

2) Yes, I know. But in a communist system, we know that we will NEVER be rich ( or just have a good middle-class ). We just know that we are poor for the end of our poor live !

3) Of course there is enough ressources under a communism system. When I see the former Sovietic or the actuals Chicoms....The Soviet peoples had NOTHING and the majority of the Chineses have NOTHING. But I remember that the former USSR was spendin almost 15 to 18 % of his national budget in weapons, guns, and so on....So, juts a few for the peoples but everything for the Defense !

4) No crimes ? Damn ! I wonder why they had ( and still have ) huge polices forces. Oh yeah, it was ( and still be ) to keep peoples "quiets".

5) Who was stealing who ? Without the Western technology, the Eastern technology was nothing !

6) Of course I don't believe you ! I'll NEVER believe you. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER

P.S : I remember Fidel Castro words to Krutchev : " Even if the socialism-communism win the ideology war, and if all the world nations are communists, we will have to keep, by the minimum, a capitalist nation, otherwise we will collapse ! When you heard this, you know why you have to do : FIGHT AGAINST SOCIALISM-COMMUNISM FOR EVER, until it's definitively dead !

But there is 2 cases where I'm able to fight WITH a communist against another ideology/threat. Find these cases/threats if you can do it.... ( and no, it's not against the nazism, cuz for me, one more time, they are the same in their finality )


[Edited on 1-12-2002 by ultra_phoenix]

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
2) Yes, I know. But in a communist system, we know that we will NEVER be rich ( or just have a good middle-class ). We just know that we are poor for the end of our poor live !

and when can a person be considered 'rich'?
under the capitalism, someone else must fail in order for you to succeed. that is when you can be considered rich... when you are the only one who succeeds while everyone else fails. so what's wrong when everyone wins?

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
3) Of course there is enough ressources under a communism system. When I see the former Sovietic or the actuals Chicoms....The Soviet peoples had NOTHING and the majority of the Chineses have NOTHING. But I remember that the former USSR was spendin almost 15 to 18 % of his national budget in weapons, guns, and so on....So, juts a few for the peoples but everything for the Defense !

4) No crimes ? Damn ! I wonder why they had ( and still have ) huge polices forces. Oh yeah, it was ( and still be ) to keep peoples "quiets".

again... the question is... 'was the ussr & the east asian countries really communist or atleast briefly?'

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
But there is 2 cases where I'm able to fight WITH a communist against another ideology/threat. Find these cases/threats if you can do it....

it's nice to see that you're keeping an open mind on the topic
but i can't say i know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by echelon

1) so what's wrong when everyone wins?


2) again... the question is... 'was the ussr & the east asian countries really communist or atleast briefly?'

3) it's nice to see that you're keeping an open mind on the topic

4)but i can't say i know what you're talking about.

1) Nothing. It's good. I'll be happy if everybody was rich. Do you know why ? Because I would be rich myself.

2) Of course they were/are !

3) I don't keep an open mind. I keep my EYES opened, it's different. With you, the communists, we have to be allways aware of what's going on.

4) Sigh...sigh....

It's an alien invasion or a muslim invasion of course !

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
It's an alien invasion or a muslim invasion of course !

i see...

You see ? What do you see ?

Now if the damn commies were so "great" then why did they all fall? I mean the USSR is no more, China is not faring to well, and just look at Cuba.

Under the capitalism we can make our money any way we want. We can make as much as we want.

Commies however can only make a certain amount of money, and they have to do it the way their country wants it to be done.

Originally posted by JediMaster
Now if the damn commies were so "great" then why did they all fall? I mean the USSR is no more, China is not faring to well, and just look at Cuba.

Originally posted by echelon
again... the question is... 'was the ussr & the east asian countries really communist or atleast briefly?'

atleast ultra_phoenix reads all the posts before commenting...

Originally posted by JediMaster
Under the capitalism we can make our money any way we want. We can make as much as we want.

well then... how often do you see someone become rich...
sure it's easy with the stock market, and all...
actually... the stock market is a perfect representation of capitalism.
because it's nothing but a big risk... a risk to your well-being
anyway... if you think you can make as much as you want... then why don't you try it? see if you can do it without losing everything.

echelon, communsim has shown itself to be incredibly inefficient over the last 70 years. This results in an underproduction in the economy, just look at the queues in the old USSR.
The problem with communism is that all people aren't equal, there will always be a heirarchy. And unlike capitalism there is almost no chance of moving up that heirarchy.

COMMUNISM SUX. It's obvious echelon, that you have never been to a communist country. Time to stop reading text books and get out and have a look.

Originally posted by mad scientist
echelon, communsim has shown itself to be incredibly inefficient over the last 70 years. This results in an underproduction in the economy, just look at the queues in the old USSR.

there was no communist nation to begin with.

Originally posted by mad scientist
The problem with communism is that all people aren't equal, there will always be a heirarchy. And unlike capitalism there is almost no chance of moving up that heirarchy.

there is no hierarchy. communism promotes a society without any classes. because there's only one class, the proletariat.

Originally posted by mad scientist
COMMUNISM SUX. It's obvious echelon, that you have never been to a communist country.

again... there is no communist country.

and you failed to mention any examples of socialism...

echelon, it is hard to follow what u are talking about.
It is funny that when u are confronted by a communist country as an example you say it is not communist it is socialist.
It should be obvious that when these countries have tried to introduce communism it has failed. You can call this socialism if u want but it is still failed communism.

Also, communism encourages laziness. Where is the incentive to excel if everyone is compensated the same. I could hardly see a rocket scientist earning the same money as a janitor as being happy. Could you ?

All quotes from echelon

i just asked for you to name some socialist nations that are doing worse than the capitalists.

Name a socialist country which is doing better than a capatalist one.

there is no hierarchy. communism promotes a society without any classes. because there's only one class, the proletariat.

....but we're also realistic.
the workers are ranked depending on experience and expertise and get paid accordingly.

So isn't that promoting class ?