Human nature, it's said time and time again that human nature was never factored into communism, thus it's failure.

like actually living in communes, or some other aspect of human nature?

if communism lived up to its promises it'd be ideal for the AVERAGE person not the rich ppl but it doesn;t work sadly or fortunately depending on ur perspective of things

it wasn't communism that didn't live up to its promises, it was those who were left in charge.

Interesting debate.
Mi dos centavos:
We are conditioned in the West to have a knee jerk reaction to the word communism. As it played out in the advesary states to us, that reaction is well grounded. But, it also blinds us to the governing theory of socialism.
No theory in it's absolute form, works anywhere besides on paper. They all fail when the 'human condition' factor is added.
The USSR needed a demcratic/capitalistic mechanism to keep it going..but it never developed in time. The US has certain socialist mechanisms. Someone referenced Canada. There are only successful examples of systems that are amalgams, and foundational failure of systems that are not.

Echenlon, I know why I'm anti-communist. Too much blood, deads, tortures, starving peoples, oppressions and others horrors...

But you, why are you communist ?

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
Echenlon, I know why I'm anti-communist. Too much blood, deads, tortures, starving peoples, oppressions and others horrors...

But you, why are you communist ?

actually, ultra_phoenix, i wouldn't really care for communism if there was another system that could guarantee us true justice and equality.
and from what i've seen so far, capitalism can't provide these two basic things.
and the evidence doesn't just lie within the system today.
throughout history, we saw that capitalism was prone to corruption.
it would be a fantasy to see 'honest' businessmen for once.
and because this will never happen, the working class must take it upon themselves to reach this status of liberation.
i was raised as a communist, and it is my decision to stay as one.

Originally posted by echelon

actually, ultra_phoenix, i wouldn't really care for communism if there was another system that could guarantee us true justice and equality.
and from what i've seen so far, capitalism can't provide these two basic things.
and the evidence doesn't just lie within the system today.
throughout history, we saw that capitalism was prone to corruption.
it would be a fantasy to see 'honest' businessmen for once.
and because this will never happen, the working class must take it upon themselves to reach this status of liberation.
i was raised as a communist, and it is my decision to stay as one.

I bet that the Chinese, North-Koreans and Cubans common peoples have a different POV.

I wonder why these East-Germans and others Easterns Europeans were so happy when your beautifull communism ideology went to nowhere !

Look on Google about what's going on actually in Vietnam and how Vietnameses peoples see your communism ideology.You'll have a big surprise.

P.S : Raised as a commie ? Where do you live ? MarxLand ? LeninLand ?

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
P.S : Raised as a commie ? Where do you live ? MarxLand ? LeninLand ?

...raised to believe in the system.

Originally posted by echelon

...raised to believe in the system.

Yeah, of course....raised to believe in the system...Ok..BUT WHERE ? WICH COUNTRY ?

i am currently in the u.s.

Oh ? But you are not born in the US I bet.

Damn....a commies who's living in uncle sam country. It's like a daemon who want to go live in Heaven.

you have to have experience to understand the different perspectives of capitalism.
and it's not quite exactly heaven here.
besides, the cp headquarter of the u.s. is located downtown.

Originally posted by echelon
you have to have experience to understand the different perspectives of capitalism. besides, the cp headquarter of the u.s. is located downtown.

The CPHQ is located downtown ? OUCH ! Does it hurt ?

I'm sorry(?) Echelon, but I can't be agree with you ! In fact, it's not that I don't like you personaly, no, it's just that I see communism & socialism like what they are. A threat for freedom, liberty and justice.

yes, but our understanding of communism is based on what 'so-called' communist nations did with it before.
isn't it funny how they adapted some parts of the manifesto, as in control and regulation of the economy, and excluded major factors such as 'freedom, liberty, and justice'?
they used marx's theory as an illusion, so they can drain the power of the people, while the 'leaders' were free to help themselves to the riches that were never distributed back to the people.




[Edited on 12-6-2002 by echelon]