National I.D. Card....will you accept it?

This was posted on you tube, an excellent view of what could easily happen with ID cards. If you don't have one you'll be considered extremely suspect. If you value your privacy then that in itself will become a crime. This will then drive some people into being criminals, force them to rebel because of being abused by their government.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...
AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM.
this is a video that most of you may have seen but ill post it again. there is a part that deals with the national id card. here is the cut part for the id card but i suggest you watch the whole video. www.youtube.com... (national id card)

some of you think that this card is probably a good thing and just deals with simple things like dealing with driving and getting a bank account but it is much more than that. it deals with everything that you purchase. it deals with your dependence on big corporation. where do you get your food? your medical? your education? your clothing? your shelter? your everyday things that you use to live. they believe that without them(corporation) you cannot survive for very long. they are your saviors.

with this card(that has an RFID chip in it) they can monitor what you buy...what your favorite foods are what your entertainment is what sort of shampoo you buy what sort of sexual vices you have and on and on and on and then market all of these things straight to YOU thru advertising. why would they do this? as a form of control. to control your thoughts basically to give you the urge to go buy.

you have to understand that there is a global corporation that gets its power from us the consumer. thats all we are to them. consumers and breeders. the plan is set up for us, our children and thier children... these people have a very clear plan for us. do not take this card.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by Funkydung]

Well, to go to these extremes we need to weigh the costs and benefits of a cash-less society! For one thing, we're all on the internet which means we're paying an internet service provider, very likely not in cash, which means we are being "tracked" I guess one could say.

No cash = much less robbery/muggings! Sure, somebody still wants your stuff, but thievery for mere cash is much less sophisticated for obvious reasons. I don't generally carry cash because I don't need to - no cigarette/drug/alcohol problems that would lend to that practice. While to my knowledge an ID card won't connect to my bank account, it's clear that the opponents want the people to think so. It's a future possibility, but we also have to factor in the people running (and using) these programs and the propensity for human decision making (clearly far more erratic and unpredictable than computers will have you think!)

The video posted by IR84 is interesting to watch, but it basically says that national ID cards = false sense of security (the guy is up to funny business in the end, right?)

If anything, increased spending is a probable outcome if money is connected to the cards, but I really can't see it as a means of control. If it's easier, it's clearly more likely people will do it, but that is not the end and be-all. Nobody knows if I bought something for somebody else, just like nobody knows if I am the person who registered this computer I am typing on or paid for the internet access I am using to type this.

Originally posted by AlphaHumana
No cash = much less robbery/muggings! Sure, somebody still wants your stuff, but thievery for mere cash is much less sophisticated for obvious reasons. I don't generally carry cash because I don't need to - no cigarette/drug/alcohol problems that would lend to that practice.

The video posted by IR84 is interesting to watch, but it basically says that national ID cards = false sense of security (the guy is up to funny business in the end, right?)

In the end his life is ripped apart becuase he didn't have a card and he took up the fight to stop the cards. That's my view of it, but yes it won't ever stop terrorism at all.

As for money, well sadly the idea is that things like fingerprints will prove who you are, but fingerprints are resonably simple to fake. In fact even the popular tv show mythbusters did an episode where they beat a supposedly secure door lock with a fake latent fingerprint. So someone can still steal my money.

Muggings down? I LOVE that arguement. Let's remember that many many muggings are for your watch, phone, IPOD, expensive pen etc that you have on you. Will it reduce muggings? Nope sorry you still carry items of value.

I will give you a big reason i use cash only for nearly everything. I don't want to end up on a supermarket list with a guide to my spending patterns. Why is that? Well by using cash i avoid all the damn junk mail. I hardly get any junk mail at all because i don't have a spending pattern that can be followed. I don't have a supermarket store card because i don't want my doormat covered in paper with stuff i don't want to buy.

Then there is the potential for silencing protestors. Lets say a peaceful protestor is doing what he does best, causing the government trouble by airing the issues. They take a look at his record, no criminal record but hey he's married, oh and he also purchases "Men In Boots" regularly. So he's married and a closet homosexual, ding ding we can silence him.

Now morally he shouldn't be lying to his wife, legally he is doing nothing wrong. This is why cash should be kept, to stop people being easily silenced by using their personal lives.

My humble view.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by ImaginaryReality1984]

For those who think people are being paranoid and for those who say they will not accept the cards ...let me tell you something.

The ID Card Act was passed 2005, however, there were states who voted against after its passage due to the cost to transform within their particular beauracracy/state structure as well as saying it was a violation of privacy. On the flip side, in some form or another, we will have an ID Card with all information on it BECAUSE a technologically, central computerized society is where we are headed undoubtedly.

All I have to say is this year and by beginning of next year, ALL CELL PHONES will have GPS standard. Tracking = people need cell phones. People can always change ids, birth certificates SS# etc... society is being massaged by technology which will lead to inevitable control. Those who say paranoid, I'm sure you're the same ones who sit idley by and accept without realizing what you're getting.

Watch the Discovery Channel or National Geographic ; the program is called "2057" they explained whats already occurring. We NEVER thought the smoking law would get passed in NYC and it did and people said "WHAT!!" and tried to fight after it was too late. I assume alot of people thought "some group" would fight the bill ...who? You??

The same applies to any other situation ... are YOU involved in taking part in shaping society and fighting for societies rights or just bitching about it or laughing about it calling this and that crazy?

WE SHOULD LEARN FROM THE AFGHANIS AND THE OTHER DESPERATE NATIONS who threaten us... AFTER ALL, THEY learned from our government!

The only way we're going to change our government and be heard is if we as vigilant citizens for our rights ALL BECOME ...ready to laugh? SLEEPER CELLS! Actually, we are spleeping ...guess we ALL NEED A WAKE UP CALL!

I can see there being clauses introduced at the same time as the Nat'l ID cards are rolled out requiring production of your ID if you choose to pay by cash only, that way your purchases can still be linked and tracked as surely as paying by other electronic means.

So the nitwits can't come up with an actual argument against a national ID card. Okay. Lol.

As for tracking what you buy, that's only going to happen if you need it to buy things. I don't think you'd be forced to use it, but with the amount of credit card usage today, I doubt that it would be much different for most people.

Originally posted by Funkydung




with this card(that has an RFID chip in it) they can monitor what you buy...what your favorite foods are what your entertainment is what sort of shampoo you buy what sort of sexual vices you have and on and on and on and then market all of these things straight to YOU thru advertising. why would they do this? as a form of control.

to control your thoughts basically to give you the urge to go buy.

i guess i should explain...... to control your thoughts basically

(thru advertising..commercials..tv, music, radio, they already do it on the internet with cookies, etc..) to give you the urge to go buy. the rfid chip in this id card acts sort of the same way the cookies that are placed on your computer does. google and yahoo search engines track where you go and what you do using cookies. they keep a record of what you search and where you go.. thats why when you go to sites advertising flashes up "Hot Singles in (wherever you live)" or "Weather updates for (your area)." thats because its a tracking system. its admitted and has been going on for years. this is the way the id card will work...with its rfid antenna. gathering information with every purchase and transaction you make then blasting you with advertising directed just to you and probably your whole family to buy more thru every media outlet possible. whatever they want our reality to be, the people will accept it. it seems as long as people can buy stuff they are satisfied. its the most insane thing. am i way off the mark here anybody?


[edit on 1-2-2007 by Funkydung]

I just wanted to point something out. I have heard on here over and over and over again "I have nothing to hide" I beg to differ. according to all these new acts like patriot act or whatever else the gubment comes up with in the future. you do have something to hide. in your use of this forum you have undoubtedly been involved in discussions of "crazy" conspiracy theories of one kind or another. that gives them the right to call you a terrorist! ever yapped on your cell phone while pumping gas? Ever downloaded copyrighted music or movies on the internet without paying? Ever jaywalked? Ever torn the tags off of a mattress? these are just a few examples of an endless number of seemingly insignificant reasons all for which they can call you a terrorist... This rfid card is the cornerstone of a government plan to implement total control over you one tiny step at a time. but dont worry. you have nothing to hide.

I say no to the card because of this... Does it not infringe on my RIGHT to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness if my only 2 choices are to live with the card, or not live at all?

Originally posted by Johnmike
So the nitwits can't come up with an actual argument against a national ID card. Okay. Lol.

that's what i'd calla premediated response, one which was inevitable from the very beginning of the thread.

As for tracking what you buy, that's only going to happen if you need it to buy things. I don't think you'd be forced to use it, but with the amount of credit card usage today, I doubt that it would be much different for most people.

most people? i am not 'most people', so i could not care less if millions of people will swallow anything, they are probably follwing the guidelines established by corporate interests all by themselves.

for the record, it's called the leader principle.

i'd like to know why

• WE are supposedly obliged to convince the collectivists that NID cards are dangerous and unnecessary when in fact they have to convince us that it's safe and useful. I'd love to see a referendum on the issue - do you agree or disagree ?
  
• an ID card should contain more information than is necessary to identify a person?
  
• a cost vs. benefit analysis is apparently out of the question
  
• terrorism has yet again to serve as an argument for introducing yet another abomination. f-ex. do you believe electronic documents are any safer (think identity theft, was that much of a problem before the internet?) do you think a suicude attacker will care if he's catalogued?
  
• we should understand your position if you're obviously unwilling to understand ours ?
  

PS: if tracking is already an issue, how does making it even easier make sense? mandatory RFID cards, wth, that's like reporting your location every time you come near a scanner. Q: are we all criminals that we have to report out location?

i would hate to have to move to Maine but it looks like i might just have to. maybe florida will say no to it..a bit warmer there.

Maine legislators resolved recently to reject the federal Real ID Act of 2005, this piece says. The law requires states to replace their driver's licenses with identification cards embedded with the personal information of their holders. Information like Social Security numbers, birth certificates, proof of residency and fingerprints would be stored digitally on the cards and housed in a national database accessible to government employees at all levels. Critics say storing everyone's information in a single database creates too many privacy risks and would make identity theft too easy. The story indicates that the card is intended to ensure that individuals are in the country legally.

www.itbusinessedge.com...

Originally posted by Funkydung

..storing everyone's information in a single database creates too many privacy risks and would make identity theft too easy..

Data integrity and security is a major issue when it comes to legally-mandated personal information. It is highly likely that the task of compiling and maintaining this huge volume of highly sensitive information will be outsourced and off-shored to the lowest bidding IT firm somewhere in the developing world.

Also, having previously been a victim of identity-theft and the financial fraud that was comitted in my name I can assure you that the mess would take far longer (and have far greater implications on day-to-day life) to clear up than the 6+ months of stressful legal wrangling that I endured in trying to clear my name.

wow just wow and i love how in the video they talk about the news of it not being allowed on major new networks. people would go crazy if they actually saw that on CNN. anyone have an idea when this is officially starting?

I know i will be accepting it because if i don't there will be a £2000 fine, no medical treatment and a loss of my civil rights. It sucks but thats the way it is. My friend is doing a project about it at uni and some of the things he has found out is disgraceful. They say its for the better but it's just one step closer to a big brother nation.

the time is almost near...

Well my passport now needs renewing, so I shall be getting it renewed before the ID card and national database comes into effect and becomes mandatory sometime during 2008.

I for one wont be signing up for an ID card. They can't fine me as I aint got £2000 and they cant even send me to prison as there aren't any places left. Lets face it, atleast 75% of the people in the UK oppose id cards and I cant see them sending everyone to prison. Even the Tories and Lib Dems oppose ID cards. Personally I just cant see them taking off.

They are completely pointless and of no benefit whatsoever. This government just loves wasting money on stupid schemes and are so incompetent they couldn't even organise a p*** up in a brewery. Why the hell should I entrust these incompentent, lying morons with my personal and confidential details. Sorry aint gonna happen.


[edit on 14-7-2007 by kindred]