Democrats Calling For Universal Health Care Within 6 Years

Originally posted by grover

Originally posted by jsobecky

It's simple, really, marg. When you have any question about what something means, just remember this Rule of Thumb: Republicans = Good, Democrats = Bad.

THAT is such a load of bullhooey I can smell it from here.

Oh yeah, marg, I forgot to add:
jsobecky = Always Right, grover = Always Wrong.

The Bush plan to rape social security had nothing to do with actually saving the system... rather it was to move those funds into the private sector so a profit could have been made on them... and mark my word, you and I would never seen a penny of those profits, but wall street would have made a killing.

Yeah republicans= right... gag me with a southern baptist will ya.

Originally posted by grover
The Bush plan to rape social security had nothing to do with actually saving the system... rather it was to move those funds into the private sector so a profit could have been made on them... and mark my word, you and I would never seen a penny of those profits, but wall street would have made a killing.

Yeah republicans= right... gag me with a southern baptist will ya.

grover, at least state the facts and not your feelings.

The Bus SS plan made a portion of your SS donations voluntarily privatized. It made great sense for the younger people, not so much sense for the older members. It also allowed unspent portions of your donations to be given to your family if you died before they were exhausted.

The Democrats opposed it of course, because it would loosen their grip on the lower class that they maintain through meager entitlements.

Damn, anothered politically derailed thread. Can you guys play nice?

This is about healthcare, OK?

You know Js and Grover I do love you both to death even if I agree with Grover a littler bit more than you Js.

But I did took my time to study Bush SS proposal and the truth is that is was not going to be good for my age group but rather the younger generation entering the work force.

The problem is that Bush wanted to target what is on the pot already, and that is the middle age group.

See I don't think I will like to have china owning my SS security.

Why would we want to be CANADA? Do you ever see them curing anything. There healthcare system is a joke just ask all the "snowbacks" as my brother calls them who keep moving to the US.

Originally posted by Low Orbit
As an American universal healthcare doesn't make much sense for me, especially since we have about 100 million transient latinos in our country every year.

LMAO - 100 million every year huh? You do know that the ENTIRE population of the US is roughly 300 million, right?

Originally posted by Low Orbit
If the dems want to go about trying to give American's Universal Healthcare they should start with South America and work up.
Do you know how many Mexicans(illegals, not Mexican-Americans, there is a difference) already get free healthcare? ? ? ?

You got a link to back that up?

Originally posted by Low Orbit
The dems won't do anything about the boarders so maybe they should instead promise to give the world universal health care.

Yeah the republicans did a real bang up job with the borders last year. When was that fence getting built again? Oh wait, didn't they try to grant amnisty to the 12 million or so undocumented people here in the US?

I thought that by universal you meant like all over the world, so I kind of went O_O

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I support the idea of universal health care for United States citizens, but just adopting a single nationalized system like in Canada or the U.K. just isn't going to work here. Most people would rather stick with their current insurance that switch to a single payer system like that. It needs to be something designed here unique to us and our belief in free markets.

I completely agree with you here. There should be at least basic services for people who cannot afford them(i.e. doctor visits, medications, procedures). I have top notch insurance thru my company, but I dont hardly go to the doc other than the occasional checkup or when I am sick. I belive most people are like this as well. You dont need it 100% of the time, but when you DO need it - it should be available. How bout diverting a portion of the taxes that people without health care are already paying and pay for it with those funds?

You could also cut the costs of health care if we promoted healthier lifestyles and better environmental choices.

Originally posted by Royal76
Why would we want to be CANADA? Do you ever see them curing anything. There healthcare system is a joke just ask all the "snowbacks" as my brother calls them who keep moving to the US.

And what exactly has the US cured lately? We have one of the highest cancer rates in the world - if not THE highest. We have so many new deseases popping up here every year because of our own ignorance. This was once a great country, I wish I could still say that.

Originally posted by Royal76

Why would we want to be CANADA? ...There healthcare system is a joke just ask all the "snowbacks" as my brother calls them who keep moving to the US.

Canadians call 'em "snowbirds." And they don't move to the US and give up their healthcare.

Snowbirds move to warmer regions for the winter - but return every 6 months to stay qualified for Canada's healthcare insurance. They also "top up" their coverage with private insurance in case their stuck with extra charges.


...I don't think Canada's system is perfect, but it's good, and waaayyy better than being uninsured. Like over 50 million Americans have NO health insurance.

Originally posted by Low Orbit
As an American universal healthcare doesn't make much sense for me, especially since we have about 100 million transient latinos in our country every year.

Sooo....they make up 1/3 of our country?!

If the dems want to go about trying to give American's Universal Healthcare they should start with South America and work up.

The US doesn't control (legally) other countries politics.

Do you know how many Mexicans (illegals, not Mexican-Americans, there is a difference) already get free healthcare? ? ? ?

It's not free, someone's paying or it...obvisouly not you though, since we don't have a tax for Universal Healthcare, so why do you care?

The dems won't do anything about the boarders so maybe they should instead promise to give the world universal health care.

Why, have the Dems torn down that wall already? Oh wait, you're precious Republicans never put it up. Bush is the one calling for the NAU (North American Union), so you're political paty banter is useless (I'm an Independant)

If I was a politician I would promise World Peace in 6 years. Because world peace trumps all and 6 years is after the election so there is no way it would come back to me.

And that's why we're in the sh!t hole we're in now, thanks to people who think like you, and get into the Government...promise anything, so you can get a free ride (just like those 'mexicans' that 'steal' our healthcare...right?!)

Originally posted by soficrow



...I don't think Canada's system is perfect, but it's good, and waaayyy better than being uninsured. Like over 50 million Americans have NO health insurance.

So true!!! That is part of the reason why health care is so damned expensive!! I still think the entire insurance industry needs an overhaul. A good portion of the money people pay into the system should be placed into private accounts until it is needed. That way, the insurance company makes money for managing the accounts, and there is always $$ left over for the ones that need it WHEN they need it.

Univeral Healthcare is the worst think you can do!

Most people in the medical profession will be let go, small clinics will be made in various areas. I know people in the medical field they say the same hell alot more indepth about it then i explained!


It Will take you alot longer to see a Specialist if you really need too!


Its just a really bad idea, doctors will not be compared to what they are today, they will be lower on the poll of great professions

Originally posted by KonigKaos
Univeral Healthcare is the worst think you can do!

prove it using examples from existing countries that have universal helathcare.

Most people in the medical profession will be let go, small clinics will be made in various areas. I know people in the medical field they say the same hell alot more indepth about it then i explained!

again, prove it. Doctors will be paid the same, so why would they be let go?

It Will take you alot longer to see a Specialist if you really need too!

No it won't. It will depend on the population of your city...and if you 'NEED ' to, you will see them very quickly, because that's the LAW.

Its just a really bad idea, doctors will not be compared to what they are today, they will be lower on the poll of great professions

You mean like the great respectables doctors that keep leaving watches and towels and scissors and verything inside of their patients?!

Get over it.

This is ultimetly a good thing if you can get it right. How a hospital can deny someone help is beyond me, i've no idea how any professional doctor could turn a patient away because he has no money. The major hurdle I expect will be getting the money to the right people its a problem we have here in the UK, no matter how much money you throw at the NHS its goes straight to the pockets of the doctors and administrators instead of the patients and hospitals where it should be going.

Going a little off topic, sorting out the illegal immigrant problem is easy. you draw a line and tell them how it is, if there illegal you collect them up and ship them back the problem is people keep trying to bring racism into it as if it has anything to do with deporting them at all, its why there are illegal immigrants here with a nice free room, food and sky TV, I don't even get sky tv and i've lived here all my life.

Hospitals here in the U.S. don't refuse care to emergency patients because they lack insurance.

That's illegal.

In the UK everyone pays something called National Insurance It equates to about 10% of our paypacket. This pays for free healthcare, unemployment benefits, sickness benefits, old age pensions etc. etc.

The system seems to work, it does need extremely good financial planning for the hospitals to perform well but that promotes disciplined spending and less wastefullness. Our General practioners are still some of the best paid doctors in the world too! I have no problem paying for this and the vast majority of my counrtymen don't either.

My father used to live in Virginia, USA and told me that the medical insurance system in the USA is quite scary, 2 examples he gave me were

1. He knew a guy who became very ill and needed intensive care, the guy's insurance policy didn't cover the treatments he needed so he had to sell his house. The guy lost everything! The policy this guy held was one my father said most low paid working Americans can afford.

2. A family he knew had a baby but it was born with severe disabilities, the care and assistance the family needed also wasn't covered and they too had to sell up!

This seems very unfair, I'm not sure why the system used in the UK could not work in the USA, apart from greed from the medical and insurance sectors!

I find it sad that such a great and successful country like the USA could treat its citizens like it does.

I know that Universal Healthcare sounds frighteningly socialist and that the concept scares the bejeezus out of some people, but it's really not that bad.

There are a lot of misconceptions about the Canadian system in the US.

For instance, in Canada I do not have a limited choice of doctors. If I had the time and inclination, I could visit every doctor in my province and it would be paid for. As I understand it, if you are from the US and have insurance through an HMO you can only go to doctors that your insurance company approves. We don't have 'case managers' reviewing our treatment, and the progams are not run on a federal level, they are provincial programs. Nobody decides on what kind of treatment you will or won't receive, that is up to the doctor.







[edit on 26-1-2007 by Duzey]

Originally posted by Duzey
I know that Universal Healthcare sounds frighteningly socialist and that the concept scares the bejeezus out of some people, but it's really not that bad.

There are a lot of misconceptions about the Canadian system in the US.

For instance, in Canada I do not have a limited choice of doctors. If I had the time and inclination, I could visit every doctor in my province and it would be paid for. As I understand it, if you are from the US and have insurance through an HMO you can only go to doctors that your insurance company approves. We don't have 'case managers' reviewing our treatment, and the progams are not run on a federal level, they are provincial programs. Nobody decides on what kind of treatment you will or won't receive, that is up to the doctor.

[edit on 26-1-2007 by Duzey]

I have to ask about the stories about long waits for non-essential surgeries. I also have to question claims that doctors are moving out of Canada into the United States. Do you have any knowledge about those claims?

Also, there was a doctor in Denmark about 20 years ago that said that rising costs in the national health care system would require dispensing with routine checkups because they might detect conditions that would require treatment, lengthen life expectancy, and thereby increase costs. Are there safeguards in place that keep the government from moving towards this result?

Also, is there research positively correlating the life expectancy of Canadians with Americans with their respective life styles? It seems to me more likely that the cause of their longer life span is the fact that they don't eat like Americans do, and do more physical activity unlike Americans.