Disclosure Project Claim: Attacking ET's?

I watched the Disclosure Project press conference the other day, and a woman who claimed to have worked with von Braun near the end of his life. He claimed that there were people who ordained that we would demonize the USSR, then after they fell we would go after international terrorism, and then we would turn against the ET's. What perked my ears was that this testimony was given in May of 2001, before 9/11 and the War on Terror. Has there been any other testimony corroborating this evidence? If so, has anyone spoken of a timetable?

On the other hand, the woman blew her credibility out of the water later on when she claimed that she knew that the aliens wanted peace and had technology to solve our problems. C'est la vie.

In another thread we discussed this, but not as in depth as I would have liked to.

My sister gave me a book that was writtin in the late 70's. It was writtin by someone who said he used to be high up in government. Unfortunatly I nca't remember the name of the book or the author.
In this book the author described how the new world order would come to power. He said it would begin with a "cold war" between countries as an excuse to militarize and enforce new freedom-restricting laws on the population. When the cold war no longer works, An "attack" on the civilian population would be planned,executed and blamed on "terrorists". The war on terror is the next step for the new world order. The book said that when the war on terror is not enough anymore, the Govn. will tell the populatoin about an "alien invasion" and use it as an excuse to take more of your freedoms.

The author gave a list of the criteria our species would have to meet beore large scale contact was made.

1. You must have a single planetary government. If YOU can't decide who speaks for Earth, how can we?

2. You must have a single planetary religion. Its hard enough keeping idividual species from killing each other due to religious differences.

3. In order to enter "galactic trade" you must have a planetary currency. This currency must be backed by something.(gold standard, for example)

4. You must develop interplanetary travel on your own. We will help you with interstellar once you "get your feet wet".(in the book the author explained that due to a mistranslation, the space race was so important because both Russia and America both thought that once they made it to the moon, ET would open trade with them.)


Damn, I wish I could remember the name of this book.

[edit on 25-1-2007 by Tiloke]

You can call me paranoid and a conpiracy nut where im going with this specualation. And I'm not saying that I think they are, but it wouldnt surprise me if they came about disclosure in that fashion. Its proven that the U.S goverment (and Russian too for that matter) are covering up what they know about UFOs, so what would be the easiest way for a goverment to confess the fact they knew these vehicles exist? To say that they think they are friendly, or they dont know if they are or not, or that they are hostile and they were covering it up for the publics best interest? I mean, people would pretty pissed off if they were told that these things have been visiting us and are friendly, but we havent done our job and told you that; because you didnt have a "need to know".

I thought that Ronald Reagans speech to the United Nations were unsettling even though it was presented in a hypothetical kind of way. How anyone would even think that starting a war with a civilisation that would have to be far more advanced technologically then us, would be a smart thing is beyond stupid.

Originally posted by DigThat
You can call me paranoid and a conpiracy nut where im going with this specualation. And I'm not saying that I think they are, but it wouldnt surprise me if they came about disclosure in that fashion. Its proven that the U.S goverment (and Russian too for that matter) are covering up what they know about UFOs, so what would be the easiest way for a goverment to confess the fact they knew these vehicles exist? To say that they think they are friendly, or they dont know if they are or not, or that they are hostile and they were covering it up for the publics best interest? I mean, people would pretty pissed off if they were told that these things have been visiting us and are friendly, but we havent done our job and told you that; because you didnt have a "need to know".

I thought that Ronald Reagans speech to the United Nations were unsettling even though it was presented in a hypothetical kind of way. How anyone would even think that starting a war with a civilisation that would have to be far more advanced technologically then us, would be a smart thing is beyond stupid.

I am forced to agree; how could anyone in their right mind think that this is the logical way to go? Steven Greer claimed that the earth leadership was "eschatological" in their thinking--meaning that they were looking towards Biblical Armageddon--but given his past statements and lack of proof, I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Originally posted by Tiloke

My sister gave me a book that was writtin in the late 70's. It was writtin by someone who said he used to be high up in government. Unfortunatly I nca't remember the name of the book or the author.


[edit on 25-1-2007 by Tiloke]

Can you find out the name of the book? If what you say he claimed in the book is true, then its an eye opener for sure. Considering it was written in the 70's. . .creepy.

You can u2u me the title if you wish.

On the disclosure project topic, thats also interesting. You would think that the sudden increase in sightings being reported would give the govt the right opportunity to come out sometime in the near future and admit alien existance among us (no pun intended).

AN IMPLAUSIBLE UTOPIA

The author gave a list of the criteria our species would have to meet before large scale contact was made.

1. You must have a single planetary government. If YOU can't decide who speaks for Earth, how can we?

A fuzzy wuzy utopian dream , it sounds nice to talk about – and works in science fiction novels

But this is the real world

2. You must have a single planetary religion. Its hard enough keeping individual species from killing each other due to religious differences.

When hell freezes over

Thanks to bitter personal experience of sectarian conflict , I just get this vision of Dr Ian paisley bowing and kissing the papal ring

That is how ridiculous a “ one world religion “ is .

But on a serious note – we currently have > 6 billion population – even sticking to the “ big 4 “ of Protestantism , Catholicism , Islam and Hinduism

To achieve the one world religion – at least 3~4.5 billion people are going to have to abandon their religion .

do you see that happening ?

would you change for “ the greater good “ ?

3. In order to enter "galactic trade" you must have a planetary currency. This currency must be backed by something.(gold standard, for example)

ROFLMAO

We cannot back our existing currencies

How the hell are we going to create a “ galactic currency “ with a tangible reserve to guarantee it ??

4. You must develop interplanetary travel on your own. We will help you with interstellar once you "get your feet wet".(in the book the author explained that due to a mistranslation, the space race was so important because both Russia and America both thought that once they made it to the moon, ET would open trade with them.)

Ooops have they just contradicted themselves ?

As neither pre requisite 1 , 2 or 3 had been met @ the time of the space race – why would any one believe that lunar landings by would open up interstellar trade ???????????

Conclusion :

These 4 points are silly pipe dreams which – despite the claims of advancement , enlightenment and progress , actually hark to a dystopian nightmare where free will , individual choice \and the right to self determination and basic freedoms are all trampled in the pursuit of “ a greater good “

And worse , the “ benevolent “ “enlightened “ aliens are refusing to help us until we prostrate ourselves

“ conditional aid “ is rightly condemned when it occurs in real life

Why should we accept such conditional aid from aliens , especially at such a high price ?

Ignorant ape...your beyond ignorant...your actually DISTURBED!!!

I have read your posts and none make any sense whatsoever!

How can any alien race take us(human race) seriously when we are broken down into 200+ countries with hundreds of languages/dialects, hundreds of currency and dozens of religious beliefs. The only positive and fruitful contact possible under these circumstances is with individual powerful countries such as USA, Russia, China etc! They give technology in exchange for something else ONLY TO THOSE COUNTRIES!

For the record I am pro-socialistic world government and not pro-capitalistic wg! IMO the Canadian and European ecopolitical systems are the best and should be copied into the world government scheme. I would hate to see a handfull of all-powerfull conglomorates dominate the world scene and gather all the resources while billions of inidividuals are virtually enslaved to them. Unfortunately thats what I see happening up to now.

So yes pro-wg but socialistic and the world must eventually unite for the better! If we must give up some of our freedom for this to materialize then so be it. Everything has a cost!

Yrs, Mr. Realist!

you can have one world religion if you erradicate the normal religious model by having sustained conflict based on religious ideology. The theory is that eventually rational human thoughts of survival will over rule faith based extremisim. This takes a strong and charismatic leader to break down the walls of religion after global conflict.

Revelations warns of the deception under the pretext of bringing peace. The "church" knew one day radical thoughts based on faith of the various religious movements would bring the human population into a global conflict, what better way to ensure that "their" ideas should survive then to manipulate the outcome by suspecting global termoil and then attempts to evaporate the control of the church by someone they claim will be the great deceiver.

The church has tried to preprogram humans that peace is bad and that a true one world religion is bad, for it fore shadows the beginning of the end and the era of the antichrist.

All to use fear to control, all to make sure Islam and jeudea and the "romans" continue to fight each other into the dusk of humankind.

The church accepted it could not control all of mankind but reasoned it could retain its control on a large segment as long as there were competing religions that the flock would try to "convert" for eternity.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
Conclusion :

These 4 points are silly pipe dreams which – despite the claims of advancement , enlightenment and progress , actually hark to a dystopian nightmare where free will , individual choice \and the right to self determination and basic freedoms are all trampled in the pursuit of “ a greater good “

And worse , the “ benevolent “ “enlightened “ aliens are refusing to help us until we prostrate ourselves

“ conditional aid “ is rightly condemned when it occurs in real life

Why should we accept such conditional aid from aliens , especially at such a high price ?

A great commentary, I heartily agree. Insisting that humanity achieve an unreasonably advance and enlightened state is bizarre. And, yes, I could see those desperate to achieve this state willing to sedate (perhaps literally) those they deem to be enemies to the cause.

This wild-eyed idealism is precisely what scares me about the Disclosure Project's mission. It freaks people out.

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
Ignorant ape...your beyond ignorant...your actually DISTURBED!!!

I have read your posts and none make any sense whatsoever!

How can any alien race take us(human race) seriously when we are broken down into 200+ countries with hundreds of languages/dialects, hundreds of currency and dozens of religious beliefs. The only positive and fruitful contact possible under these circumstances is with individual powerful countries such as USA, Russia, China etc! They give technology in exchange for something else ONLY TO THOSE COUNTRIES!

That is based on the assumption that any race is going to have a unified planet before they venture into space. That is spurious reasoning based on speculation.

And why is it unreasonable for planet with a radius of 3000 miles and humans scattered all over it to have evolved different religions and languages? That is how we naturally evolved. Are we to be the outcasts of the galaxy on that unreasonable basis? I wouldn't want a part of any culture that rejects other cultures on that basis, frankly. Furthermore, why is it unreasonable for us to have different currencies?

For the record I am pro-socialistic world government and not pro-capitalistic wg! IMO the Canadian and European ecopolitical systems are the best and should be copied into the world government scheme. I would hate to see a handfull of all-powerfull conglomorates dominate the world scene and gather all the resources while billions of inidividuals are virtually enslaved to them. Unfortunately thats what I see happening up to now.

So yes pro-wg but socialistic and the world must eventually unite for the better! If we must give up some of our freedom for this to materialize then so be it. Everything has a cost!

Yrs, Mr. Realist!

This is a political opinion and does not address the topic at hand. I find it fundamentally presumptive to assume that the world requires a socialist government before we make contact. This is based on your political opinions, which you have impressed on any possible ETs because you think it is an idealistic system. I am not going to argue that your political ideas are wrong, but I must respectfully challenge this assumption.

In a broader sense, I find disturbing about ufology that many credible ufologists inject politics into their discussions. Steven Green naturally, but also Stanton Friedman (whom I respect immensely but who i every speech invariably opines that self-respecting aliens would never want to engage with a planet engaged in "tribal warfare") and others.

I further find it self-deprecating that it is somehow assumed that ETs are more enlightened and therefore socialism or some other socioeconomic system naturally comes to them. First, why assume that they are enlightened? We discovered the nuclear bomb in the 1940's. Would you say that just because we discovered that technology that we are enlightened? You cannot assume that technological superiority implies moral superiority. Second, why would the most enlightened political system for any given alien race be socialist or even totally peaceful? Perhaps there is an evolutionary or other biological system that makes them predisposed to anarchy, and that is how they maximize their cultural utility? If we make it into space first, would force them to conform to your ideals before you make contact?

There is a belief that just because ETs come from the sky, they must necessarily be angels. Based on stories from history, we as humans have been making this assumption for too many years. We need to recognize that they may be deadbeats just like us. I don't wish it were like that, but it's how things are.

[edit on 1/26/2007 by Togetic]

Originally posted by Togetic
On the other hand, the woman blew her credibility out of the water later on when she claimed that she knew that the aliens wanted peace and had technology to solve our problems. C'est la vie.

No this was not blowing her credibility, this is one of the main points of the project. By peace that they claim aliens have been shutting down nuke missiles and there is yet no signs of hostility. With technology she means free energy for everyone! (back engineered?) That would solve alot of troubles.. There are people who find that this advanced tech can not fall into the common humans hand, imagine everyone flying around in anti gravity vehicles and what could happen if they fall into "bad hands".

Originally posted by 137

Originally posted by Togetic
On the other hand, the woman blew her credibility out of the water later on when she claimed that she knew that the aliens wanted peace and had technology to solve our problems. C'est la vie.

No this was not blowing her credibility, this is one of the main points of the project. By peace that they claim aliens have been shutting down nuke missiles and there is yet no signs of hostility. With technology she means free energy for everyone!

(back engineered?) That would solve alot of troubles.. There are people who find that this advanced tech can not fall into the common humans hand, imagine everyone flying around in anti gravity vehicles and what could happen if they fall into "bad hands".

Those arguments undermine what the Disclosure Program was trying to do by antagonizing anyone who might be willing to listen.

Further, what happens when the ET technology falls into the hands of bad ET's? They may have some sort of justice system to remedy such a happening. That is speculation on my part, but my point is that the assumption made by Greer and company that they know the agenda of these beings is the part of the Disclosure Project lacking the merit that ufology needs so desperately nowadays, and is precisely what needs to be curbed.

Unfortunately, if showing that the ETs are peaceful was one of the main points of the project, then unfortunately it was doomed to failure from the beginning.

Originally posted by Togetic
Further, what happens when the ET technology falls into the hands of bad ET's? They may have some sort of justice system to remedy such a happening.

When a life evolves to this level that they can travel lightyears to our planet, then they must have found a way to live with each other without selfdestructing there own species and world(s) in the process, this would also point out why they have not enslaved/erased our kind already

Originally posted by 137
When a life evolves to this level that they can travel lightyears to our planet, then they must have found a way to live with each other without selfdestructing there own species and world(s) in the process, this would also point out why they have not enslaved/erased our kind already

This is the assumption that I challenged above. There is no chain of logic that definitively supports that position. Why can't a species develop into two factions, who decide to each populate half of the galaxy? Why does that preclude them from traveling into space? It doesn't sound like a great place to live, but it certainly could happen.

They may also have not made contact with us because they are patronizing us. Or perhaps they live in a tenuous peace and by treaty cannot interfere. The conclusion made by the Disclosure Project doesn't immediately follow.

Again, don't get me wrong, I hope that they are decent and have a highly developed moral code. I hope that Greer is right in some respects. But the question must be asked: what happens if it doesn't pan out that way?

Togetic,

I think you misinterprated my entire post!

And why is it unreasonable for planet with a radius of 3000 miles and humans scattered all over it to have evolved different religions and languages? That is how we naturally evolved. Are we to be the outcasts of the galaxy on that unreasonable basis? I wouldn't want a part of any culture that rejects other cultures on that basis, frankly. Furthermore, why is it unreasonable for us to have different currencies?

Are you trying to confuse me or are you confused? Yes this the current situation of our planet as I stated in my previous post and it is very natural for things to have evolved in this manner! However, it would be very impractical for any alien civilazation to deal with humanity as a whole under this basis. It is even dificult for humanity to conduct trade and commerce with so much diversity, let alone aliens! Isn't this obvious to you?

This is a political opinion and does not address the topic at hand. I find it fundamentally presumptive to assume that the world requires a socialist government before we make contact. This is based on your political opinions, which you have impressed on any possible ETs because you think it is an idealistic system. I am not going to argue that your political ideas are wrong, but I must respectfully challenge this assumption.

On what grounds do you challenge my political views and your wrong to think politics don't play an important role in everything including the foundations of the new world order! I would certainly like the NWO to be socialistic for many reasons. I am sure most of the world who doesn't own millions of shares in blue chip companies and barely makes ends meet would also like a socialistic NWO. However, in the end, the important thing is we the world unite under something even if that is under capitalism. There is just too much confusion under the current status-quo!

There is a belief that just because ETs come from the sky, they must necessarily be angels. Based on stories from history, we as humans have been making this assumption for too many years. We need to recognize that they may be deadbeats just like us. I don't wish it were like that, but it's how things are.

Yes, the Krill papers specifically state that there are both good and bad alien species visiting us! IMO another very important reason to unite the world is so that we can more adequately defend against any future alien invasion.

Originally posted by Togetic
I watched the Disclosure Project press conference the other day, and a woman who claimed to have worked with von Braun near the end of his life. He claimed that there were people who ordained that we would demonize the USSR, then after they fell we would go after international terrorism, and then we would turn against the ET's. What perked my ears was that this testimony was given in May of 2001, before 9/11 and the War on Terror. Has there been any other testimony corroborating this evidence? If so, has anyone spoken of a timetable?

On the other hand, the woman blew her credibility out of the water later on when she claimed that she knew that the aliens wanted peace and had technology to solve our problems. C'est la vie.

I think the movie Secret Space might put it in better perspective.

Might I add a bit of secret science to the mix, the true atomic
scientists, Von Braun among them, are also the so called
rocket scientists which is childs play to them.

They know atomic secrets, not uranium or what is called the standard
rule but the anomalies of science that only hint at the power,
and its not oil which will go even quicker with alternatives to plastic.

Most of the querks in science are given by William R. Lyne and
connects them to WWII scientists going from Germany to
New Mexico, picking up Tesla's Railroad car of notes and models
along the way.

SkepticGreek, I think I see your point, and after reading my previous posts, I apologize if I was snarky.

I think we agree more than we disagree. I agree that it is difficult for us to interact with any given species with the world fractured as it is. The question in my mind is whether we must homogenize before we make contact. I would hope that any ET would no insist on this before making contact; it seems an arbitrary metric.

It's sort of ironic, because as a modern culture we embrace "diversity," but it definitely makes it difficult to talk to outsiders. On the one hand, if I can speculate a little, they may have technology or abilities that render our language abilities different. And they will need to integrate our economy into a larger community. But if we aren't fully homogenized, is it right for them to just pass us over? Because actually bringing our social and economic systems together is virtually impossible without an outside force giving us a "human" identity.

My point is that sometimes people, not necessarily you, Skeptic, claim that we should reach a certain level of development before ETs make contact. And I have to ask, is that based on any facts, or is it merely impressing ones opinions on the situation?

With respect to the Krill Papers, I am not ready to accept those as genuine. There is very little evidence indicating reliability based on my research. And even if they are, perhaps the fact that they needed to be leaked like that is one of those things we should fix, not just for any possible contact, but for ourselves.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape


A fuzzy wuzy utopian dream , it sounds nice to talk about – and works in science fiction novels

But this is the real world

you are an ignorant ape
I don't agree with you.

at the same time I understand the complication - and the paradox - of not believing somthing - and say it's not possible at the same time..
hehe

this is a Paradox.

[edit on 29-1-2007 by Ram]

Togetic,

Apologies accepted! So you are not convinced ufo's are flying all over our atmosphere and some EBE's are actually working with some governments on secret projects? If this is the case perhaps you need to do more research. Look around this forum, do a yahoo search on Krill papers, Majestic 12 documents and Dulce book! Look at some photos and videos. If you are really open minded I am sure you will change your mind at some point. I myself was initially skeptical when first joining and before doing some internet research. I was literaly shell shocked after reading these documents and any doubts I had vanished after that point. I suggest you and every other skeptic do the same!

It's sort of ironic, because as a modern culture we embrace "diversity," but it definitely makes it difficult to talk to outsiders. On the one hand, if I can speculate a little, they may have technology or abilities that render our language abilities different. And they will need to integrate our economy into a larger community. But if we aren't fully homogenized, is it right for them to just pass us over? Because actually bringing our social and economic systems together is virtually impossible without an outside force giving us a "human" identity.

Again, you are way off in your reasoning! Good aliens such as the Nordics will not take us seriously unless we unite under one language, currency and beliefs. It's not that they snob us the way we are now rather I think it's really too tough for them to communicate and establish meaningful relationships with every country, tribe and sect! The bad aliens, assuming the greys and draconians fall in this category, actually prefer we stay seperated so that their enslavement agenda becomes all the easier! Read cosmic conflict and you will see my point! Maybe all this information is pure hogwash, but unfortunately thats all the information we have publicly available to us and conclusions can only be drawn on available information!
All of the information points to this direction whether you like it or not. I certainly don't!

Regards,

SkepticGreek74

Originally posted by DigThat
I thought that Ronald Reagans speech to the United Nations were unsettling even though it was presented in a hypothetical kind of way. How anyone would even think that starting a war with a civilisation that would have to be far more advanced technologically then us, would be a smart thing is beyond stupid.

Eh lol?

I think you misunderstood the purpose of that speech. He was highlighting how our differences were rather petty; especially if we were faced with an external or "alien threat outside this world" as he put it. I know he made at least two speeches on the subject but to me it seems obvious he was trying to show what we all shared in common, our humanity. Not some hidden fervent lust to go to war with advanced aliens. Technology does feature a lot in warfare but it's not the only component. Intelligence above all else makes a difference.

Originally posted by Togetic
I am forced to agree; how could anyone in their right mind think that this is the logical way to go? Steven Greer claimed that the earth leadership was "eschatological" in their thinking--meaning that they were looking towards Biblical Armageddon--but given his past statements and lack of proof, I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Double eh..I haven't seen anyone especially Ronald Reagan advocating that it was the "logical way to go" lol. Ronald Reagan was formerly an actor, he must've had a penchant for dramatics and theatricality. Referring to a conflict with an extra-terrerstrial race was his way of showing our common bond.