Skeptics are dangerous: here's why

The skeptic in Ufology is dangerous because they give the governments power and they can manipulate the issue. The debate shouldn't be if UFO's exist, the only debate is are they extraterrestrial, interdimensional or both. The world is engrained with skepticism about ufology and that's because of people's personal belief systems. There's mountains of evidence that supports ufology and they exist without any reasonable doubt. When the Day of Visitation occurs the people will panic and the governments of the world will gain total control over them in order to protect them from the threat. The skeptic will allow this to occur because they don't allow for serious discussion and examination of ufology. Many of them want to discuss ufology as a myth or against the backdrop of an unreasonable standard. This allows them to give any unreasonable answer to suffice theirs and others belief systems. This will give governments total control. Like Reagan said, the governments would unite if they were faced with a threat from outside of this world. If there were serious dialogue about this situation and not ridicule the people would be prepared and educated about ufology and the more that's known would counter the governments spin. This is a dangerous situation and the skeptic has facilitated it. Look what Dr. Michio Kaku said a few years back:

Universities also discourage research by not granting tenure to
scientists who go out on a limb to study UFOs, said Dr. Kaku.

"It's a good idea," Dr. Kaku said, "to start asking these
questions only after you get tenure."

www.virtuallystrange.net...

What kind of nonsense is this? What happened to science being about exploration and seeking the truth? That's all baloney. Many of these people in the scientific establishment are skeptics. They are protecting their personal belief systems at the expense of reason. People will practically work for free to make sure the governments have what they need to protect us from what they will say is a threat. They will only be allowed to do this because of ignorance. People tend to ridicule what they don't understand so they don't have to look into the subject matter deeper. There's not a skeptic out their who can debunk ufology, they can muddy the waters by debunking a picture or a video and many people allow it because it supports their pre-existing beliefs. The skeptic has put the governments in a position to totally spin and control the situation and the masses will suffer because of it.

“The day Science begins to study nonphysical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all previous centuries of its existence.” NIKOLA TESLA

We NEED skeptics.

Hardcore skeptics, no, we can do without.

But everyone, labeled as a skeptic or believers, has to be able to take no for an answer.

Every photo / video that comes out should be looked at with an open mind, but not with an ignorant mind - analyze it, examine the facts, investigate the photographer's credibility.

If something is deemed as a hoax, it should be laid to rest. Some believers are that diehard that they will continue to believe in it even after it has been shown to be a reflection / balloon / whatever.

Both sides need to show some leniency and allow things to be finalized before jumping to conclusions. Without skeptics this board would be all hoaxes and lunatics, without believers we wouldn't have a board.

Closed minded people are dangerous, Skeptics are not, 'Nuff said.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by VoXiSo]

We can do without sceptics who dismiss everything and we can do without believers who believe everything is a UFO. Weve had threads on here with pics of seagulls where people are totally convinced they are alien ships and they only make fools of themselves.

Look at the Polish thread, the "UFO" is clearly two tins taped together yet people still believe its a UFO.

Me, Ill try to find a reasonable explanation ie a bird, plane or hoax before I even start to think about it being a UFO, these blind believers are making the UFO movement look like a bunch of idiots.

This is my point. It's not about a photo here or a video there. The debate has to be broadened to ufology in general. The skeptic can't debunk ufology because there's mountains of evidence to support it. They can however muddy the waters. Who does this favor? This only gives more power to the governments of the world to spin it in their favor. This is setting up the masses for a major downfall. The information is there but the ridicule only allows exploration to go so far. Listen to the cynics, they are dogmatic in nature while claiming they are freethinkers. I'm saying that the expansion of knowledge expands the mind. The ego is only self aware of the ego and this is at the core of skeptics, cynics and others. Just listen to them. No amount of reason will do. You put evidence in their face and it's,"People just want to believe in something greater than themselves." This makes no sense. It's statements like these that allows the skeptic to blanket the issue without a serious examination of the evidence.

The people/groups supporting the UFO TRUTH DEBUNKING program are extremely well funded and well organized. They typically try to make the argument that UFOs and skeptics go hand in hand like pigs and slop. The fact of the matter is that those opposed to the truth far outnumber those seeking disclosure. ATS is eaten up with skepileptics, like every other forum/newsgroup dealing with with this subject.

Until massive numbers of people can have open discussions about undeniable hallmark UFO events without interference from these 'keepers of the gate', not much progress will be realized. I think it's high time for an internet UFO community free of our friendly neighborhood 'UFOs don't exist' skeptics. They could also have their own community of skeptics....oh wait a minute...they need UFO believers to debunk and ridicule in order to exist don't the?

Originally posted by polomontana
Many of them want to discuss ufology as a myth or against the backdrop of an unreasonable standard.

No sir, I disagree. I believe people like you, who choose to believe first and demand proof ....umm never, are the reason why Ufology is a joke. Quite simply there IS no standard, reasonable or otherwise. If you require no proof and take space stories to be 100% fact, then you are helping to discredit Ufology.

There is a certain forum member in a certain popular thread going around telling space stories about banging hot chicks in outter space, and people are eating the crap up. That is all it takes in Ufology to prove something; a good story. He is giving hope to all the scared people out there, and they think this guy has the answer to all their insecurities about the afterlife (hmm, isn't that how religions/cults get started).

You know, someone had a really good idea in another thread. Hillary Clinton appeared on national television just last night and was answering questions from viewers, and the idea was to broach her about the UFO issue in a sane and rational manner to see how she would respond. Now what if she had said, "Ya know, I keep hearing about this and I think I need to be better informed on the whole situation. Where can I go to get me started?"

"Well Hillary, you can go to above top secret UFO and aliens forums. We can get you started on this little blog here about banging hot space chicks....remember, this is 100% the truth. What's that Hillary? Yes we have proof.... We have the eyewitness testimony of the only person it happened to.

Now we will move your attention to the very thread that gave us the idea to ask you about your thoughts on the UFO phemomena. Oh yeah, sure someone seriously suggested that you perform ritualistic ceremonies in which you howl at the moon, but what is he supposed to do... he heard someone actually say it. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then we will move you along to this thread with an actual photo of an alien space ship. What's that, Hillary? It looks like two bowls taped together and thrown in the air? Pssah, what are you a skeptic or something?

Hillary, we here in the Ufology don't appreciate skeptics. Our motto is to believe first and question ...never. We feel it hurts the community to raise a critical brow, no matter how outrageous the claim.

Now Hillary, what do you say? Now that you have been briefed on what we here in the Ufology community know, are you going to use your considerable political influence to support our cause?"

Yep Polomontana, I am starting to think you are right. That is EXACTLY what Ufology needs. Less skeptics would considerably improve the credibility of this field.

You know it is really easy, considering the anonymity of the internet, to claim you believe an incredible story and not require any proof. It's kind of like reading a good novel or something. I can see how it might give you a sense of enjoyment and make you warm and fuzzy, and how those darn skeptics are like totally killing your buzz.

Well Polomontana, if you are such a believer and require no proof, then you must believe this incredible blog blog.abovetopsecret.com...
And if you believe that incredible blog, it is your responsibility to spread the word and let people know what awaits them when we die. So here is your assignment. You print that blog out and go into the break room where you work, and pin it up for everyone to read (make sure you write your name on it so they know who to go to with their questions). Hell, even hand your boss a copy. I mean this is monumental information that they need to know.

In conclusion: You are right. Skeptics are doing nothing but destroying the credibility of this field. We need more people like you if we are ever to be taken seriously.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by greerISaFraud]

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
The people/groups supporting the UFO TRUTH DEBUNKING program are extremely well funded and well organized. They typically try to make the argument that UFOs and skeptics go hand in hand like pigs and slop. The fact of the matter is that those opposed to the truth far outnumber those seeking disclosure. ATS is eaten up with skepileptics, like every other forum/newsgroup dealing with with this subject.

Until massive numbers of people can have open discussions about undeniable hallmark UFO events without interference from these 'keepers of the gate', not much progress will be realized. I think it's high time for an internet UFO community free of our friendly neighborhood 'UFOs don't exist' skeptics. They could also have their own community of skeptics....oh wait a minute...they need UFO believers to debunk and ridicule in order to exist don't the?

Yeah man, there are literally hunreds of thousands of top-secret disinfo agents pouring over every word on the internet. If they ever find someone that posts the actual truth they call a code-red and devise a counter-truth initiative. They then put that initiative into action by posting their unreasonable demands for proof and witnesses until said truth has been totally discredited. And this is how all the bases on the moon, all the aliens living underground, all the government leaders who are really reptiles.........this is how they keep that stuff secret. By asking for proof over the internet!

When I read stuff like this, I instantly conjure up an image of two teenage boys sitting in a dark room, listening to Pink Floyd, smoking pot, and saying, "Like yeah man, they're everywhere. They work in underground bunkers and like try to disprove everyone who tells it like it is man. We just gotta like bring the man down if we ever want the truth."

Totally

Originally posted by polomontana
Skeptics are dangerous

Interesting premise, but your argument is bunk. And i mean that in the nicest way.

Lets change "skeptic" to "believer" and adjust the grammar of your first paragraph to reflect that:

The believer in Ufology is dangerous because they give the governments power and they can manipulate the issue. The debate shouldn't be if UFO's exist, the only debate is are they extraterrestrial, interdimensional or both. The world is engrained with beliefs about ufology and that's because of people's personal belief systems. There's mountains of evidence that supports ufology and they exist without any reasonable doubt. When the Day of Visitation occurs the people will panic and the governments of the world will gain total control over them in order to protect them from the threat. The believer will allow this to occur because they allow too much discussion and examination of ufology. Many of them want to discuss ufology without question or skepticism. This allows them to give any unreasonable answer to suffice theirs and others belief systems. This will give governments total control. Like Reagan said, the governments would unite if they were faced with a threat from outside of this world. If there were serious dialogue about this situation the people would be prepared and educated about ufology and the more that's known would counter the governments spin. This is a dangerous situation and the believer has facilitated it.

It's still lucid, albeit a bit odd sounding. Point being that any argument can be made at any time....but it doesn't mean that it is correct.

Originally posted by VoXiSo
Closed minded people are dangerous, Skeptics are not, 'Nuff said.

That post says it all.

The real danger isn't the skeptic or the believer, the real danger is those of closed minds, those that have already chosen what to believe. A valid point is made by the 13th Apostle, Rufus, kept out of the Bible because he was black.

Rufus from Dogma

"I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate."

Whether you believe UFO's are real, or you believe it is all nonsense, you are still BELIEVING in something, and beliefs are a dangerous concept, because they are hard to change.

Polomontana,Many sceptics are in fact cynics who have absolutely no intention of impartialy investigating this phenomena.
They instead cling to their preconceived notions and ignore many glaring inconsistencies,discrepencies and contradictions in order to shoehorn in rational explanations for events.
Scientific critical thinking is about arriving at judgements AFTER dispassionately examining evidence-something many UFO cynics utterly fail to do.
You are right these people are a hazard to objective research as many cynics obstinantly refuse to even entertain the possibility of UFOs;this is about as far from the critical,impartial scientific approach as a person can be.
I think wilfull ignorance plays a big part as to beleive that,out of all the many thousands of radar corellated events witnessed by trained observers,that not even one percent of this subject is true seems incredibly presumptive and unwise.
Whilst its true there is no unequivocable evidence for this subject,there exists a great many scientific and circumstantial reasons why academics,scientists and high ranking military officials take the topic seriously(as do many country's governments)
"I do not beleive in UFOs therefore UFOs do not exist" seems to be the mindset of the UFO cynic and,as many choose to assume its all nonsense,
many are incapable of arriving at informed opinions.
Pouring sorn and derision onto others,being hystericaly cynical and hopelessly prejudice are all qualities of people we can do without.
(as is non critical gullibility-this is why objectivity is so important)
Cheers Karl

GreerISaFraud hunted and pecked:

There is a certain forum member in a certain popular thread going around telling space stories about banging hot chicks in outter space, and people are eating the crap up. That is all it takes in Ufology to prove something; a good story. He is giving hope to all the scared people out there, and they think this guy has the answer to all their insecurities about the afterlife (hmm, isn't that how religions/cults get started).

Why does this bother you so much GIaF? Sleeper is giving people hope!!? Oh my god what an evil monster he is - maybe we should lynch him!

Yeah man, there are literally hunreds of thousands of top-secret disinfo agents pouring over every word on the internet. If they ever find someone that posts the actual truth they call a code-red and devise a counter-truth initiative. They then put that initiative into action by posting their unreasonable demands for proof and witnesses until said truth has been totally discredited. And this is how all the bases on the moon, all the aliens living underground, all the government leaders who are really reptiles.........this is how they keep that stuff secret. By asking for proof over the internet!

If you think that UFO disinfo agents are a figment of someone's over-active imagination, then you are the one being unrealistic.

I guess you didn't read the part of my post where I referred to UNDENIABLE HALLMARK UFO EVENTS. By the way, I'm 40 years old and I don't have a basement, live in a trailor park, or do drugs. Also, I'm fairly well educated (I will spot you 100 points and play you a game of Scrabble for $5000 any time my friend).

You can't stand the fact that 'UFOs don't exist' skeptics are a dime a dozen and expendable can you?

Originally posted by polomontana
This is my point. It's not about a photo here or a video there. The debate has to be broadened to ufology in general. The skeptic can't debunk ufology because there's mountains of evidence to support it.

If this was true, the skeptics would also believe it.

Hardcore skeptics believe in the Hobbit people whose skeletons were discovered a few years ago. Hardcore skeptics believe in medical conspiracies such as the Tuskeegee experiments. Hardcore skeptics believe in red shifts and in extrasolar planets.

But so far, the UFO community has offered only fakes and blurry photos (and blurry bird photos at that) and aliens who only come down to talk to a few and never seem to want to talk or meet with governments in public.

I used to believe in this, until a round of obvious fakes showed up. Then I started looking at what the skeptics had to say and started reexamining things that I'd believed. My story isn't unique... I've read that other UFO researchers become jaded after running into so many fakes. There's a PhD physicist who researches crop circles that went from believer to skeptic.

No... if we didn't have skeptics, the UFO community would probably be promoting the idea that Scooby Doo pilots the motherships.

Okay, correct me if I misunderstand. As I read the OP, what (s)he seems to be saying is that the question should not be whether or not UFOs exist, the question should be "what are they"?

I don't think the OP is suggesting skepticism should not exist at the individual theory level. Since there's no true consensus as to what the UFO phenomena really constitute, you'd be in a position of believing everything if you weren't skeptical, wouldn't you? Impractical, to say the least.

Especially in reference to Dr. Kaku's statements - a bit absurd to question the existence of UFOs. Skepticism about their existence makes no sense. Skepticism about the myriad of theories of their origins makes perfect sense, to me.

So there's skepticism and there's skepticism.

Maybe.

So according to polomontana, we should accept things without thinking. Good idea, I'll go get the propaganda squad and we'll make you happy.

a question :

if skeptics are so bloody dangerous , why is it the believers who join suicide cults ?

i am not attempting to tarr and feather all believers as potential suicide cases

but , i have to ask - can you cite one case of a skeptic suicide ?

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
GreerISaFraud hunted and pecked:
Why does this bother you so much GIaF? Sleeper is giving people hope!!? Oh my god what an evil monster he is - maybe we should lynch him!

Sorry, I thought I made it pretty clear as to why it bothers me so much. In fact, just about everything in my first post was about why it bothers me so much. It discredits Ufology. Here I will quote just one line.

If you require no proof and take space stories to be 100% fact, then you are helping to discredit Ufology.

If you think that UFO disinfo agents are a figment of someone's over-active imagination, then you are the one being unrealistic.

I guess you didn't read the part of my post where I referred to UNDENIABLE HALLMARK UFO EVENTS. By the way, I'm 40 years old and I don't have a basement, live in a trailor park, or do drugs. Also, I'm fairly well educated (I will spot you 100 points and play you a game of Scrabble for $5000 any time my friend).

You can't stand the fact that 'UFOs don't exist' skeptics are a dime a dozen and expendable can you?

Look, you specifically spoke of a UFO truth debunking program. I have never heard of such a program, and the suggestion of one makes me think that you mean there are agents with the specific purpose of going on the internet to debunk the truth about UFOs.

You specifically said that the members of this UFO truth debunking program (the agents if you will) will "typically try to make the argument that UFOs and skeptics go hand in hand like pigs and slop". That means you actually think there are agents on the internet trying to convince the true believers that it is ok to be skeptical.

This is silly to me and therefore I posted in the manner that I did. I am sure the government lies all the time. I am sure the government has covered up many things, but to think there is a special UFO truth debunking program with UFO truth debunking agents that actually care what is said on a forum with an endless amount of insane theories.... it just seems like the logic of a stoned teenager.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by greerISaFraud]

People have said sceptics are damaging UFO disclosure. Believers who believe anything without questioning are doing much more damage as they make anyone who believes in aliens look like fools when they proclaim that a photo of two bowls taped together is proof of alien life.

I believe in aliens but at least 90% of stories/photos on here are fake, attention whores or something mundane. Its got so bad now on this site that I wouldnt tell anyone Im a member because of all the kooks here.

Originally posted by polomontana
The debate shouldn't be if UFO's exist, the only debate is are they extraterrestrial, interdimensional or both.

And this statement alone is why skeptical peoples are an important part of UFO study and understanding.

They must be one of those two then? They can not be black project aircraft which are kept under wraps from the publics and/or other governments eyes? They can not be experimental craft which have very earth based origins?

You are right...we should understand that the debate centers soley around two possible points of origin in regards to unidentified craft. We should not question stories and grainy images that are put forth by anonymous individuals; we should ignorantly assume that all UFOs are not from this world.

Other view points should never have the right to enter the debate. Hurrah for denying ignorance my friend...hurrah.

I vote that we take all the skeptics out back and shoot 'em like the mad dogs they obviously are ...

Um ... er ... ahhh ... Wait a sec'! I'm a skeptic, and a fair one at that. See my signature.

The unfortunate thing here is that ,from hard core debunker to hard core believer, and all the shades in the middle, we are tied to the human condition. It's obvious that there are varying or individual needs for different levels of proof.

If your level of required proof is lower, or higher than mine, then so be it. If it is so all-fired important that you get me around to your way of thinking then it is your problem. You need to come up with the evidence that will sway me to your way of thinking.

On the other hand, if you truly believe that flying saucers (UFOs) are full of little green twinkies from the planet Munimula, and you are happy with that particular belief system, then what does it matter what I think? Adding my belief scalp to your belt will not change the reality of the UFO or the unreality of the UFO, one bit.

I think you will find, in the end, that the little green twinkies from the planet Munimula, will exist or not, whether I am skeptical or not. Nect Pas????