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To Spank Or Not To Spank

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posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 07:20 AM
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California parents are facing legislation that could find themself fined or sent to jail for spanking their children. This legislation has been proposed by Democratic Assemblywoman Sally Lieber. Republicans have been vocally against the motion, but Governor Schwarzenegger has left the possibility of being receptive to the idea.
 



www.cbsnews.com
(AP) California parents could face jail and a fine for spanking their young children under legislation a state lawmaker has promised to introduce next week.

Democratic Assemblywoman Sally Lieber said such a law is needed because spanking victimizes helpless children and breeds violence in society.

"I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child," Lieber said. "Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?" Lieber said her proposal would make spanking, hitting and slapping a child under 4-years-old a misdemeanor. Adults could face up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I am openly against any sort of violence against children. Spanking is too often done in a fit of rage which acts as a means of resolution for the parent, rather than a deterrent for the child. I believe if a parent is willing to try, they can find many ways to approach the situation which would be much more effective than hitting the child. Positive reinforcement, the rewarding of a good behaviour, can not be under estimated. Rather than hitting the child, it is quite easy to place the child in a time out.

Put a clock in front of the child and allow it to count down for fifteen minutes. If the child moves, put another minute on the clock. They will quickly realize that they need to behave if they ever want to get what they want. But the key is, consistency. This form of abuse is merely a tool for parents who are either lazy, or don't know any better. If you don't know better, then I would not personally fault you. But I would highly recommend taking the strides to inform yourself to how to deal with these negative behaviours.

There is a barrier between parent and child. It acts as the ultimate form of trust. As long as that barrier exists, a child will have an endless amount of trust for you as a parent. Breaking this barrier, which is what happens through hitting the child, the trust is broken. You have taught the child that it is OK to hit, and that it is an appropriate way to deal with your anger. When the child goes off to school, becomes frustrated with a school mate, and then proceeds to strike the child. What would happen? He/She would be scolded for resorting to physical violence, which is exactly why it is hypocritical and should be avoided by parents.

As a father, would you want your daughters boyfriend to hit her? I would think not. The quote, "Nobody has the right to lay a finger on you" would definitely be played in this situation. Well, nobody but me?

But as much as I despise violence towards children, I despise the government stepping in on how a parent should actually parent. Yes it is wrong, we get that. But rather than punishing those who do strike the child, why not teach them how to do otherwise? Don't fine them which is going to take money away from the children, don't send them to jail, send them to a free course which will teach them how to effectively parent their children.




posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 07:40 AM
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I agree that hitting children is not the way.

Example

Havin a 4 1/2 yr old, I learned that making your kid sit on the
corner until he says I'm sorry works.

For the record: I was spanked when I was a child with whatever my dad found
lying around, my brother somehow survived too....



[edit on 1/22/2007 by a1ex]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:20 AM
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Many will advocate the use of spanking children as a positive means and a manner to instill obedience. I disagree, but we all have our opinions.

My main problem with this is the thought of the government stepping inside our homes and telling us exactly how to raise our children. I would like to think that every child would be raised appropriately, but we all know it is not the case. I still think that the state could approach this much more effectively. As I have said, it is better to reinforce a good behaviour. So rather than punishing their spanking, let's try to educate.

Having parents spend $1,000 of their hard earned money on a fine is only going to take away from the child. It is added stress that will ultimately place the child in further harm.

Slightly hypocritical on behalf of the state, in my opinion. Let's spend more time educating rather than punishing.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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This is a parent unit issue no the government issue we are letting strangers dictated our every aspect of private lives with stupid bills like this.

This is not about spanking but about controlling.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:43 AM
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Spanking

Sadly, most parents use it too much without a balance of rewards when they do good.

Personally, I believe in spanking. I have 3 children and I have had to a FEW times. I love my children dearly and I play with them, talk with them and reward their good behavior.

If it is done lovingly, it works. I have not had to spank any of them for years, but they do know wehre that border line is.

Needless to say, I hug and kiss my chidren l LOT. I do use time-out when I can, but if they refuse the time-out, they know it will be taken to the next level, so it works.

I've known kids who will NOT sit in time-out - what do you do then?

For me, it works, and my kids and I love each other VERY much.

It is a private matterunless there is abuse. I'm sure this won't make me very popular here, and many will think I am wrong, but if there is one thing I've learned in my life - opinions differ, but there is no wrong or right one.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:47 AM
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I agree with you Godservant, only people that has gone through a life raising children to adulthood understand what it take to bring those children to responsible adults.

Each parent on its own devices to accomplish that.

But in a nation that most parents have no time to deal with the raising of their children, our children are been spoiled and rewarded with not control but the children on their guilty minded parents.


[edit on 22-1-2007 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:58 AM
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Personally, spankings as a child simply made me afraid of getting in trouble. It failed to teach me why something I did was wrong, why I should seek to avoid doing it, or why I should care that I had done it. I would avoid doing what was wrong because I was afraid of the pain caused by spanking, but didn't care at all about whether what I did was right or wrong. Conversely, when my parents refrained from spanking me and would instead become exasperated and saddened by bad behavior, I would feel guilt at having upset them. It was only after that happened a lot more often than spankings were handed out, that I began to develop any sense of ethical conduct for myself. I'm not a child psychologist though, and refuse to judge my parents or anyone else's. I can only say what I feel would have worked best with me, which I feel would have been the elimination of spankings and a greater emphasis on developing empathy and ethics.

The issue at hand, however, appears to be the question: do we feel this is the government's decision to make regardless of our beliefs on the matter? I don't feel I have a conclusive answer to that question, so I must refrain from giving any. I do feel that the infliction of physical pain or fear in order to direct behavior is something I find difficult to contemplate, and it isn't what I would do. Yet, as I said, I wish to refrain from passing judgement on parents, particularly since I have never been one.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 09:32 AM
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Enacting a law at this level appears “all well and good” at face value (especially to the members of EPOCH) but it is not reasoned-out.

How is it going to be enforced?…there are already laws concerning child abuse…day care workers, doctor’s, social workers, teachers, school administrators, coaches etc. already have to report “evidence of child abuse”. These reports by the above only get looked into in the extreme cases as it is by a system that is already overtaxed and ineffective. The news is rife with children’s protective services failing to their duties…even in extreme cases...and it is not because of a lack of laws.

As for taxing the system…in 1979 Sweden enacted laws banning spanking…from 1981 to 1994 there was a 489% (that’s four hundred and eighty-nine percent) increase in child abuse. This does not mean suddenly the nation got violent against children…but the change in laws played havoc on the system.

Protective services can not keep-up with their current load and adding this sort of strain will cause children that are truly abused and truly in imminent danger to go into even further neglect and languish in line behind a child that was reported as spanked. Not to mention further bogging down the courts.

Should people spank their children, imo it is not necessary….but then again I am not responsible for raising their kids, I have only a social responsibility which does not include telling them what is right or wrong concerning discipline; unless the child is in truly being assaulted…and it does not take a new law to figure-out what that is…

What’s next…placing a child in a corner, setting a timer, raising your voice, send a child to their room…well that’s sensory depravation, torture, intimidation or imprisonment Mr/Mrs/Ms. Parent? Talk about inviting the government into your home…..


mg



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 09:35 AM
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I've been beaten as a child, and I must disagree, It thought me that for everything you do there is consequence. Some people have not learned that lesson and are now galvanising in doing the wrong things. I think beats teach kids responsability. Without a taste of consequence people grow up to be arrogant self endoulged spoiled brats, who don't care who they step on, but who care about just getting what they want.
Allthoug I agree that hitting a child of 4 and under is riddiculous, after that, it should be done. to root out bad behavior. I became very open minded and receptive to people's problems and pains because I was beaten. Shoes, belts, slaps, you name it. It didn't kill me, made me stronger.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:09 PM
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Why would we ever condone physical abuse? To display dominance? To teach the child it is ok to strike another?

Radekus, you say that this is acceptable. Lets say you have a daughter, now this daughter has just found a new boyfriend. To teach her some manners and respect, he likes to smack her around. Is that acceptable? No. It is not. We expect them to deal with issues through words, not fists. This double standard that it is ok for parents to strike children but not for children to strike their peers, or lovers, is absolutely ridiculous.

Grant it, I don't think parents should be fined or thrown in jail, but they should be forced to take some sort of training to educate them on how to properly handle these situations.

If parents would spend one day listening to very basic techniques, they would realize how absurd it is to strike their child. Not to mention the damage they are inflicting.

It is never good to strike a child.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by chissler
Why would we ever condone physical abuse? To display dominance? To teach the child it is ok to strike another?



Excused me chissler but you are comparing apples with oranges, who said that you are striking a 4 year old or or younger?

Striking is abuse.

A smack in the butt is discipline and a way to call attention.

Don't get confuse now.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:21 PM
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Children.

Spank em if you got em.

A swat in the rear..nothing more.
No beatings, nothing done in a fit of rage.

It's just a spanking.
Not a thing wrong with it. I recieved a few as a kid..I remember most of them, and even why it was done.

If only retro-active spanking was available. Some adults could use a swat from the past.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by AceWombat04
Personally, spankings as a child simply made me afraid of getting in trouble. It failed to teach me why something I did was wrong


"Made me afraid of getting in trouble." THAT'S THE POINT!!!!

I don't think that it failed to teach you.

Trouble is what your parents are there to teach you to survive.

Everthing being said, my father beat the # out of me and my siblings. Unenlightened BS. Why allow old these ancient outlets of energy to guide our ways today?

Do we NOT use corperal punishment when a child decides to integrate car keys with an electrical outlet? What's better, a little spank lesson or DEATH?

What about the roads. Let the kids play there, to be hit by a Buick or A SMACK ON THE ASS?

There is a time that a smack on the ass to a preschooler makes a difference. After these kids are in school, things change. Too old to spank imo.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:26 PM
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Well said Marg, there is a vast difference between spanking and beating. Sometimes a smack on the butt can call attention to bad or dangerous behavior faster and more effectively than anything else. I don't advocate slapping a child in the face, but a smack on the butt, or hand is ok if done for the right reason and not out of anger. I can't recall ever having to smack any of my children more than one time per incident. Sometimes, if the behavior was particularly bad the smack would be followed by some form of punishment.

[edit on 22-1-2007 by Astronomer70]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Astronomer70
I don't advocate slapping a child in the face, but a smack on the butt, or hand is ok if done for the right reason and not out of anger.


Exactly but it's not usually anger that it comes from, it's fear. The parents didn't see something coming.

You hit your kids in ANGER, you should be removed as a parent imo.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:35 PM
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My mother always used pressure points I found that to be more effect than spanking, it even works when you are an adult. I had a rookie in my department who was a little too violent, after a few pressure locks he started doing his job the right way.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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I have a 3yr old daughter and she'll get a whack on the arse if she ever misbehaves to the point where reasoning and the "naughty step" doesn't work.

For example, the other day we were out buying her new shoes. She didn't want the shoes we got her, but due to her foot size, the choice was limited anyway.

She screamed the shop down and no amount of talking to her was working, in fact, it made it worse. Whilst her mother was paying for the shoes, I carried her out of the shop, placed her on the floor and gave her bum a hearty smack. Put an end to that tantrum, I can tell you.

There was no shouting, no swearing. Just several attempts to calm her down, which failed at which point, what do you do? Thing is, several people around muttered under their breath that they disagreed with the spanking. I must note, all of these were without children and were also giving me filthy looks as Alannah was throwing her fit. I thought to myself "What, if both situations annoy you so, would you have me do?"

It's never done with malice, in fact, I only ever do it when totally calm. If she winds me up to the point where I do see red, I will place her in her room, shut the door and walk away, more for her on safety than anything else. Most of the time she will apologise. If not, she will stay the whole time in her room until she realises she has done wrong.

Sometimes though, as anyone with children knows, you cannot reason with them as there is no "final frontier" for them if you do not have a punishment at hand. I usually find the threat of force and a count to 3 is far more effective a deterrent than any "naughty step" or smack on the arse. I only have to give a smack occasionally and she jolly well deserves it too.

I recieved much worse when I was younger, as did many of my friends. We all turned out fine.

Funny thing is, those who had soft parents who insisted on "talking" to their children always, without fail, had their kids turn out to be spoilt brats who knew they could get away with anything and the worse they would get would be a mild ticking off.

I think that the change in parents behaviour and the curbs that the Government's have forced upon us as parents are directly responsible for the Chav culture we now find ourselves emersed in around the UK.

[edit on 22/1/07 by stumason]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
It's never done with malice,


That's the key. You spank because you have your childs welfare at stake.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

Funny thing is, those who had soft parents who insisted on "talking" to their children always, without fail, had their kids turn out to be spoilt brats who knew they could get away with anything and the worse they would get would be a mild ticking off.
[edit on 22/1/07 by stumason]


I agree with you that is one of the biggest problems this day in age people are to soft.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:45 PM
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As a mother of two now young adults, I know exactly what you have experienced my daughter at 3 and 4 will put the worst tantrums in from of anybody.

Children test parents to see how far they can get away with what they want at the moment.

Yes, children as young as babies knows that certain behavior bring certain reactions.

But this comes from the fact that the only way children can tell what they feel and want is through crying.

But as they learn what crying means they also extend the need to other areas to see how far they can get away.

My daughter was a queen of tantrums.




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