creationists/IDists, admit your defeat

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I have no intentions to argue with someone about his/her faith. What IS worth pointing out, however....is bad 'science'....when it is mis-used as a ploy to further a particular viewpoint.....that's all.

You have described my stance on materialism, evolution on a wholesale level, and atheism to a tee.

Kudos to you.

Originally posted by riley
Humans create great stuff.. which makes humans really great.. so therefore we must've been made in the image of something even greater!

Good point riley!

I hope you realise I am actually an atheist and was being satirical. Just because human beings are at the top of the food chain doesn't mean we're anything special or owe our existence to anything special.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Oo, pitty pitty pitchuss.

Nature is beautiful, therefore Gob cweated it.

Best cweationist argument on the thwead so far.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by Astyanax]

You do that impression of elmer fudd a little too good asty.

It seems so ironic, man copies so many things accidentally made by cosmic coincedence that seem to become the patent or intellectual property of man after. I wonder why you can't use the same sarcasm for that. When man can't come up with a damn thing original what makes him think he would know intelligence when sees it?

Seems its the same arrogant ignorance when he copies it.

or makes fun of those who DO recognise it

when THEY see it

- Con

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Seems its the same arrogant ignorance when he copies it.

or makes fun of those who DO recognise it

when THEY see it

Exactly. And that was the point I was making on the previous page with my first comment to this thread. So the evolutionists boast they beat ID and creationism in the field of science. No sweat off my nose- especially considering some of the gestapo-like tactics employed by evolutionary scientists and supporters. So now what do they do? Use arrogance to attack those of us who can bow out gracefully in this thread and stick to philosophy, sans science.

They don't just want science. Secretly [and at times, not-so-secretly] it seems they want to annihilate the belief in God or a higher intelligence and they use their position in science to do so. They can't gracefully accept or be content in their victory regarding materialism but feel compelled to go further and antagonize those with theological beliefs as well- even when we don't meddle in science, as the reaction to my mushy gushy post on the previous page shows.


***Edited out some things that were a bit over the top. Sorry. I'm in one of my moods today. lol


[edit on 5/24/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Can you tell us of the gestapo-like techniques the field of science has used? Because I've read this entire thread, and all the notes for that Ben Stein movie, and I can't find any. Beyond, of course, people saying ID is legitimate science, which of course is not OK for a teacher or scientist to say, any more than it's fine for a Christian priest to say Jesus is a goldfish who will be born next wednesday. Both examples are a dereliction of duty.

ID wasn't defeated by science - ID never even got past a testable hypothesis. Science doesn't have an axe to grind with anything - it's a methodology, not a body of people plotting. If ID had supporting evidence, science would accept it in a heart-beat. It's not as if hypotheses go forward for acceptance and can get their application quashed by a group of mysterious atheistic scientists - a hypothesis stands on its own merits. So far, no hypothesis for ID has been put forward, simply because it's not based on observations, but on the bible.

I'm sorry if you think this is demeaning or attacking you, but it isn't. If you're offended by this, then the problem is solely with you. Science doesn't hate you - why do you hate science?

Originally posted by dave420
Science doesn't hate you - why do you hate science?

Oh here we go again.

'Cuz dat sigh-uhnce is of de debil. I don't even take no med-i-ca-shun. It's all satanic, that sigh-unce is. A friend is even having to type this post for me 'cuz I refoose to touch a puter. Tech-no-lo-gee is from the ee-vehl loins of Bee-el-ze-bub!



End sarcasm. I don't hate science because I disagree with evolution.

[edit on 5/28/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Ash, you're a very thoughtful person, full of love, obviously.

However, why do you selectively /snip/ one sentence from the person who just posted, and respond only to that, while ignoring the rest???

Ash, does it not seem odd that your religion, the one based on the christ, is only slightly older than Islam??

(There are far more recent cults, in the last few decades....but they aren't relevant).

These man-made philosphies are just that....man-made. It is a valiant, usually, desperate attempt to find some sort of understanding in this crazy, mixed-up world.

Humans, by comparison to the age of the Universe, are like small children....ignorant, petulant, and in great need of more learning. We can't even get along in our own playground....we need to grow up, and religion is not the way....it is fantasy, and continues to hold us back, because it is devisive, not inclusive.

Yes, I said devisive. Why? Because, many relgions say "Think as we think, or else!"

That is totalitarianism.....if it were a Government attempting that stance.

Are you afraid of lightning, and thunder?? No? Because science explains it, we know it isn't supernatural. Did our ancestors think it was supernatural?? Better believe it!! Why? Because they were ignorant of science. Of Nature.

The belief in a god.....the personal belief, does not need some institution to tell you!!! It's your decision, your feeling.....the concept that there had to be a 'designer' is a flawed premise from the outset. BUT, that doesn't mean there isn't a larger 'consciousness' of some sort....it just means that natural forces interract....'naturally'....to produce the current 'reality' that we experience. There is much, much more beyond our comprehension than the physical world we sense.

Our abilities to understand, and advance, as a species, seem to be reaching a "tipping point". Organized religions are the 'mind-killer', the fear-based institutions that hold us back, as a species.

There is a greater truth, and no reverend or priest can tell you....it is inside you, just look for it.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
However, why do you selectively /snip/ one sentence from the person who just posted, and respond only to that, while ignoring the rest???

It is due to many factors:

1). Laziness.
2). Being tired of a subject.
3). Knowing the other person won't listen to me anyways.
4). Answering the same questions many times before.
5). Being irritated when someone wants me to answer their questions when that same person has never answered my own... EVER.
6). I have nothing to prove.
7). I felt like it.
8). Etc.

Ash, does it not seem odd that your religion, the one based on the christ, is only slightly older than Islam??

Theological debates are always fun.

Not odd at all- especially when it stems from the much more ancient 'parent' religion of Judaism. The same parent religion which foretold of the coming Messiah. Technically, Judaism and Christianity were never supposed to split into two different religions. Atheists might accuse Christianity of riding on the coat tails of ancient Judaism but they miss the point that Judaism was never supposed to be a permanent system but a temporary one until the Messiah came. And as a Christian, I believe the Christ came.

See #4 Above. You and I have discussed this before.

(There are far more recent cults, in the last few decades....but they aren't relevant).

These man-made philosphies are just that....man-made. It is a valiant, usually, desperate attempt to find some sort of understanding in this crazy, mixed-up world.

I just responded to another thread last night asking what makes God different from other gods and it was fun. You might want to check it out.

See #4 Above.

Humans, by comparison to the age of the Universe, are like small children....ignorant, petulant, and in great need of more learning. We can't even get along in our own playground....we need to grow up, and religion is not the way....it is fantasy, and continues to hold us back, because it is devisive, not inclusive.

Yes, I said devisive. Why? Because, many relgions say "Think as we think, or else!"

Hey. I just discussed this on another thread today. Amazing that.

See #4 Above.

Are you afraid of lightning, and thunder?? No? Because science explains it, we know it isn't supernatural. Did our ancestors think it was supernatural?? Better believe it!! Why? Because they were ignorant of science. Of Nature.

No but I am afraid of the little goblins that live inside our chests and cause heart attacks and the invisible giants that hold the planets in place. Gravity Schmavity.

And that is as far as I read. See #1 - #8 above.

Love ya, my Co-Air buddy. Mean it.

[edit on 5/28/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


See #4 above....

kidding....

Just twisting your tail, there, dear Ash!! You are still sweet.

Except for the divisions we have re: organized religions, we could get along pretty well.....I won't blame you if you won't blame me!!!!

We'll all figure it out when we die.....oooohhh....that's grim, sorry.....

I'm tending, though, towards the eternity of the 'essence' (many call it a soul)....I like to think of it as a being. One of many, many, in the greater realm.

In the mean time, I'll find my own path, thank-you-very-much!!

Don't need hypocrites like Hagee or Falwell or Wright....or any of the other several dozen false 'prophets' to tell me what to think, I do quite well on my own!!

Cheers!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Except for the divisions we have re: organized religions, we could get along pretty well.....I won't blame you if you won't blame me!!!!

No worries. I won't burn you at the stake for being an atheist-evolutionists and you don't ship me off to the gulags for being a Christian-creationist. Deal?



A little fun never hurt between friends.

Cheers to you, too.

edit by author

[edit on 12-8-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

wow, out of 20 pages of replies this thread only got one flag

We can confirm micro-evolution in lab tests...we have fossils of the evolutionary progress of species...micro evolution cannot exist with macro and vice versa...to dismiss one is to dismiss them both...and now i shall refer you to the creationist argument...The banana...which isnt really a native banana...but hey ho those creationists need to pull *evidence* from somewhere ie their bums... www.youtube.com...

[edit on 12-8-2008 by Lethil]

[edit on 12-8-2008 by Lethil]

If you want to believe in creationism or ID that is fine, but you have to realize that these beliefs are not based on information or fact.

You believe these ideas because you have faith in their truth. These are ideas passed down through books or created by spiritual leaders but they have nothing to do with science. That isn't to say you can't believe in them, you can believe in anything you want but creationism VS evolution is not a legitimate debate.

It is like saying.

Astronomy VS Astrology
Chemistry VS Alchemy
History VS Mythology
Physics VS Magic

reply to post by Jezus


AshleyD will call you a Gestapo officer for saying that. You see, it's not OK to point out the ridiclous, childish nature of creationism and ID, apparently. It is, however, perfectly OK to besmirch sound scientific theories (and the scientists who discovered them) if they don't stand up to what your parents and priests told you as a kid. I guess it's easier to trash science than admit your loved ones were duped.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Jezus

 

AshleyD will call you a Gestapo officer for saying that. You see, it's not OK to point out the ridiclous, childish nature of creationism and ID, apparently. It is, however, perfectly OK to besmirch sound scientific theories (and the scientists who discovered them) if they don't stand up to what your parents and priests told you as a kid. I guess it's easier to trash science than admit your loved ones were duped.

She isn't trashing Science Dave, YOU are putting words in her mouth. She is trashing trash science and evolution of the darwinian kind is trash.

Darwinian evolution is not Science Dave, and most REAL Scientists don't think it is either. ID Science isn't about origins Dave, or haven't you heard? ID Science is the new science that strictly debunks evolution. That is what they do nothing more so quit saying ID isn't a Science because it IS and has everything to do with evolution and nothing to do with where we came from.

I think it's poetic justice for Atheists to get a taste of their own verbal confusion and now to not accept ID is to not accept any challenge to falsify evolution and the courts say sorry, they can and they will.

To the poster who says macro and micro evolution are one in the same is one of the many Atheist trends Con was predicting many months ago would happen and as usual I see he was right as I am seeing the very excuse he said they would start using being said by more than a few Atheists regarding evolution. The deliberate merging of those two meanings to force acceptance of the unproven one.

This is just more linguistic programming Atheists are well known for doing. While all the evidence for micro evolution is an established fact as much as the law of gravity, transmutation, molecules to man speciation is simply absurd and if that means I don't believe in micro evolution, I just said I did but so far Natural selection was disproven, then you guys started talking a NEW theory using mutation and THAT was never proven albeit tried before in the past, they always have another spin to put on it.

ID has one mission one solid area of Science well established using the same scientific method you all love and adore and that is what they do now, just specialize in debunking evolution. Someone has to keep that cockamamey evolution science with all its idiotic ideas honest so it may as well be ID lol and proving macro evolution without the logical fallacy of assuming the consequent is impossible so knock yourselves out.

Knowing ID scientists are generally better scientists having to prove the impossible for so long,, hehe Good Luck






[edit on 13-8-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

[edit on 13-8-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

[edit on 13-8-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

Originally posted by Lethil
We can confirm micro-evolution in lab tests...we have fossils of the evolutionary progress of species...micro evolution cannot exist with macro and vice versa...to dismiss one is to dismiss them both...and now i shall refer you to the creationist argument...The banana...which isnt really a native banana...but hey ho those creationists need to pull *evidence* from somewhere ie their bums... www.youtube.com...

[edit on 12-8-2008 by Lethil]

[edit on 12-8-2008 by Lethil]

micro evolution cannot exist with macro and vice versa...to dismiss one is to dismiss them both

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, I can say to dismiss macro evolution is to dismiss Jesus and it would have the same meaning to you as this idiotic statement means to me. They are NOT the same thing and no matter how slick you think you are trying to merge the two meanings into one, they are two distinct and seprate ideas. Just because a finger nail grows and evolves doesn't mean it will turn into a Birds wing or a talon or what ever weird thing they come up with. It has never been seen and any observations they have made are so highly subjective that all of them so far have been nothing but that, just subjective opinion and wild speculation.

That is NOT evidence it is just junk science and has no place polluting what has been established as real facts such as micro evolution. I think you guys are making a big mistake mixing the two meanings together and I think its going to come back and bite you all in the arse for attempting such a desperate ploy screwing with Science terminology this way. It has fogged up the legal profession when ever they tried pulling a stunt like this and it will muddy up science just was bad.

I think you KNOW the difference and I think you are using this as a machination to confuse or convolve out of spite and not in the purest interest of science. You are NOT a scientist yourself so shame on you. If Scientists are attempting to bastardize the english vernacular of Science then I am sure other Scientists will just call it something else like trans speciation or any number of terms to convey the specifics of this phenomena that keeps evolution from ever becoming a respectable area of legitimate Science such as Physics or Chemistry. Evolution has made Biology the laughing stock of all the Sciences, a pathetic joke at best.

Maybe if students didn't have to put up with angry Atheists spouting off a bunch of anti god statements in between coming and going to their next classes at campus's they would be taken more seriously. I have seen the activists at univeristies doing that and most of the time those Atheists doing it are not even students there. They are only hurting there own reputations

Originally posted by Jezus
If you want to believe in creationism or ID that is fine, but you have to realize that these beliefs are not based on information or fact.

You believe these ideas because you have faith in their truth. These are ideas passed down through books or created by spiritual leaders but they have nothing to do with science. That isn't to say you can't believe in them, you can believe in anything you want but creationism VS evolution is not a legitimate debate.

It is like saying.

Astronomy VS Astrology
Chemistry VS Alchemy
History VS Mythology
Physics VS Magic

Astrology uses Astronomy
Alchemy uses Chemistry
Mythology uses history
Magic tricks use Physics

and Evolution "Uses" Biology
evolution "Uses" science

Evolution is the great "user" and an abuser of Science. It is nothing but a parasite that Darwin attached to the real McCoy and has been riding on the coat tails of real Science to give itself an air of legitimacy but most intelligent people see right through this. All I ever see is excuses for it.

No, let me be more specific for dave sake, "a mountain of excuses" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha yeah they like to point to some puddle of goo and say "See, that is your ancestor" HA HA HA HA what kind of idiocy is that.

If it wasn't for your atheist outlook your anti god worldview, you wouldn't believe it. Sometimes I wonder if any of them really do anyway, it is THAT stupid of an idea, it is THAT dumb, that silly and THAT is the truth



[edit on 13-8-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

[edit on 13-8-2008 by XIDIXIDIX]

reply to post by XIDIXIDIX


I didn't put words in her mouth - she said it.

ID is not a science - if you call it that, then you are ridiculously ignorant on this subject. Game over. You lose. Nice try.