seentoomuch, I also thought that was a well-written post until the end when you seemed to get a bit high-and-mighty. I've always wondered why people think getting a diploma somehow makes you instantly trustable. If I am a compulsive liar and go to college, will I come out faultless? This isn't supposed to be a direct assault on you, but I've noticed a lot of people attempt to secure credibility by saying the person is 'of a high education.'

If you re-read most of the "skeptic's" comments in this thread, "proof" isn't demanded, only more "evidence".



Then get more. If one is truly having such experiences, then there should be a wealth of information one can obtain and this includes stealthy capturing of voice, image, or knowledge, etc. In addition, most are asking for a better illustration of the "beings", etc. Unless you're going the "telepathic only" contactee route (which is virtually indistinguishable from voices in one's head), then some kind of face to face is taking place. Document it then? Why wouldn't you? Times, locations, modes of entry, subjects of conversation, etc.

To answer theories on what "skeptics" are like. Myself, I'm a project manager, which does require a lot of anal-retentiveness and attention to detail. I'll graduate this summer with my BA and then enroll in the Master's program. After having one undeniable UFO sighting as a child, I've always been interested in the subject. However, in reading every book and watching every special on the subject I could find, I also realized that there are lot of great cases, but also a lot of fraud or just mistakes. I personally enjoy separating the wheat from the chaff.

My advice for contactees?

Journal, journal, journal. Every detail you can think of.
Attempt to record (film, video, sound, whatever).
If unable to (the classic, "aliens wiped the tape, etc."), then at least get a drawing of what you saw, or at least descriptive detail.
We constantly hear "I had a chat with a small lizard being last night". Ok, fine, I can keep an open mind. What color was it? What height? What kind of scales, how did it move, how did it get in? etc. etc.

That doesn't work either, I have written descriptions and it doesn't matter.

What we need is for SPRINGER to open a thread for we Experiencers/ Contactee's/ Abductee's can go to and talk and share our information with one another.

I mentioned this once before and nothing.

Proof nothing will be good enough, you have to experience it yourself. Many of the things I have written about throughout the years have come to light so what.

For myself I know what I know and I don't care what any of you think. As time passes it may very well come the time it is your turn to have your experience then you can try and share and join into our some humans are really pathetic group.

Now you tell me why you don't think humans are so interesting for study?

In evolution the human race is still nursing.

Add thank you for the same long winded nonsense that every contactee without evidence claims. "I am not going to get evidence because... blah blah blah." It's a tired and bogus claim that you won't substantiate, and last time I looked at the rules, there was one in place about spreading information you know to be false. You have contradicted yourself multiple times in varying degrees in various threads, and still you get a blank check to post whatever you want.

Probed....I would like to believe you are telling the truth.

I have one problem with your claims though.....they are in direct conflict with the claims of 2 people who were working for a shadow government with aliens on Mars. How can I believe both? Which one of you is not telling the story correctly?

www.themarsrecords.com...

Book 2 page 206

You can find a prayer to God asking deliverance from Greys and 2' insects etc.

Who are we to believe? This is the problem.

Here is another link to stories with some credibility.

www.metatech.org...

At least they give you some action steps to take if you are being visited and probed.

Probed, youself and AA are a disgrace to the community.

Your wording and style of writing is comparable to cult material.

I think you have seen some things, but have elaborated greatly and inaccuratley via your imagination. Be careful because UFO sickness does in fact exist.

If not for anyone else, take a step back and look at youself(for yourself). Stop with the fantasies and get back to what is real.

[edit on 12-1-2007 by seenitall]

[edit on 12-1-2007 by seenitall]

Just from a SMALL sampling of threads, here are a few examples to prove my point about contradictions.

Link 1

1A. Claiming to have been shown a ship breaking apart 20 years ago. 1B. Also claiming you never tried to find out technological secrets. 1C. Also claiming aliens are made of liquid metal and insert small pieces of it into humans for control. 1D. Doing exactly what you are accusing everyone here of doing, discrediting a contactee because his thoughts differ from yours.

Link 2

2. Claiming first contact was only 15 years ago. (direct contradiction to 1A.)

Link 3

3. Here is one where you claim that you do in fact describe alien technology to others, while again attacking a fellow contactee. (direct contradiction to 1B)

Link 4

4. Here you state that aliens cast off human bodies as suits with no mention of the fingernail sized portion. (direct contradiction to 1C.)

Link 5

5. Reptilians are our keepers and are with us at all times.

Link 6

6. Aliens use hidden cameras to keep an eye on us. (indirect contradiction to 5. By means of logic.. If an alien is always with us, why would it need a camera to keep an eye on us?)



Probed, when does one get to question a contactee about his experiences? How many contradictions do they need to offer before their credibility CAN be questioned?

I'm contacted everyday by a giant unicellular bacteria like alien, he even gave me his galactic email address He tells me he loves glam metal and listen to motley crue all the time

[edit on 12-1-2007 by DarkSide]

thanks for your replies. I'll check out any links and info anyone sends me.

Like I said before I haven't any cold hard proof. We're stuck in three dimensional space and the aliens have extra dimensions which keeps them free from our confined reality. They're not creatures that move in linear space like we do. They're totally different than anything we know about reality and they don't follow our laws of physics or act as we imagine they logically would. It's so strange a phenomenon and we all write about our experiences using a limited language with its 3-d concepts to try and describe beings which obviously are not limited as humans are and exist in a reality which none of our concepts can adequately depict.

So we're fumbling with our stone and sling in the face of a huge giant so to speak. We're attempting to articulate something beyond articulation while being shot down by our own kind at every turn.

It's like we are wild creatures of the woods and some of us are going to the edge of the woods and seeing humans. We all come back with our fantastic tales and try to explain what we saw, but we are not believed and all our stories do not match up. It's because of our limited perceptions and the incredible diversity of the aliens. It makes us seem like a joke or delusional but we are trying to describe something very real.

Imagine how far science would have gone if every time someone had a scientific thought they were called insane and mocked. yet countless people are describing aspects of a much higher type of science than our own when they recount their encounters with aliens. And that is after they have gotten over the shock and found a way to piece together and make sense of what they experienced.

So they arrive online and try to accurately explain what happened to them and wham! they are accused of being insane or delusional, or of being disinformation agents for the dark government or the reptilian devils etc. This would mean millions of utterly insane delusional people are amongst us if this is true. That idea is wrong. There are not millions of insane people amongst us. There are just millions of people having experiences with alien beings from outside our reality and we don't have any understanding of who the beings are or any adequate way of explaining the beings.

Yet we must try. We must allow people to speak about their experiences without attacking them all the time with insults. Like I alluded to before 'if it wasn't for all the skeptics accusing people of lying or being delusional then most threads by contactees would be only a couple of pages long. They turn into enormous threads only because they are filled with skeptics arguing against every point being made.

Now I understand that it is healthy to be skeptical. But when we are dealing with something as secretive as aliens then we have nothing to base our skepticism on. We can't say the aliens did not do such a thing because we are dealing with beings who are outside of our laws of physics and can therefore do anything they darn well like. We can't use our tiny 3-d reality as a benchmark from which to judge the aliens or the people recounting their alien experiences.

Secrets of the universe and of life itself are being denied to humanity not because of the aliens secrecy but because of the mockers who attack every individual who has an experience with the unknown and then tries to describe it in his or her own way.

It's like when remote viewing was discovered. Before that if you told people about remote viewing they would say you're insane. But upon gaining understanding remote viewing became commonplace and even the military use it. Contact with aliens is like that. It's something new that is little understood and we are still at the stage where we mock every person who claims to have such contact. But it is something very real that could help our world and potentially save it from destruction.

Hank,

I have always (for the most part) admired your posts and found you to be very consistent and readable. I must however question your motives here.

Is this a personal thing against probed or are you claiming that all alleged contactees are ingenious?

For the record, I am not a contactee.

My motives are to illustrate my point that even though he is claiming to be mocked into silence, his contradictory views have been basically left alone by the powers that be here at ATS, even in light of the very basic flaws in his story.

Regardless of the truth of his accounts, the mere fact that he is able to post his ever evolving and self-polished story here means that he HASN'T yet been silenced, and his entire point is lost.

I'm sure not answering for Hank, but I have an opinion (go figure).

I'd guess it's nothing personal, although that's irrelevant to me. For one, I'm glad we have members willing to do the kind of due diligence that allows us to realistically assess the information being presented.

What difference does it make in the long haul whether or not it's "personal" if it exposes truth, or lack of consistency?

No, I don't want to see anyone "attacked", but I also don't want anyone posting rot to skate free. And personally, I think Hank does a pretty good job of questioning without belligerence. But that's just me.

[Edit to add] Whoops. Hank, you beat me to it. Didn't mean to jump in there and speak for you, just giving my .02.

[edit on 1/12/2007 by yeahright]

Please help me understand. Since there has never been any proof to back up these claims that are often misunderstood as wild, help us understand and believe in you. To help us and the rest of mankind. When did the alien contact you? In your home? In your bathroom? Were their lights on? Why didn't you grab a camera or a gun? Did this alien have control over you? How can I see an Alien? Would I have to travel to rural Illinois since I live near Joliet, IL outside of Chicago aka the third most populous area in the USA.


[edit on 12-1-2007 by LooseLipsSinkShips]

You are 100% right. These are sheeple and I suggest you stay away from where they assimilate no matter how difficult that may be since my guess is 80% of humanity falls under the sheeple category. As long as we have 15%, that's all we need. 15% of Americans rised up and started the Revolutionary war. The rest were loyalists to the King.

Our children are not tought in school like many would be believe they are. They are indoctrined. And through these teachings is where the sheeple find it second nature to crudely and stupidly laugh at others. But they're too blind themselves to realize that they are not laughing because they found it funny, they are laughing because they are programmed to laugh. It's a good way to keep the people down.

You poor soul.



my "problem" seems to be rationality, whilst yours is more like gullible fruitcake syndrome.



I certainly hope not.



Again, you poor soul. The only mindless sheep are the people that actually read and believe your nonsense.



It wouldn’t matter you only read and see what you want, you indulge on all the supporting messages from other members, who agree with you.



You know fine well that there are people reading this right now who agree with your views and support you, this is why you and others alike continue to post this madness.



I understand what you mean but I totally disagree, I did not call him a junkie or hash-head I simply spoke my mind, the fact (the only clear one so far) that he has an avatar consisting of weed in plant form pretty clearly suggests to me he likes the concept of the whole ganja scene (or else he wouldn’t pick it for his avatar) he may use, he may not big deal if he does I know a lot of people who do I couldn’t care less, but my question was,



he didnt answer because of the intolerable persecution. (nothing to do with being full of >fill this space<)

Hey what Ive asked is alot less inflammatory to me than 99% of what Probedbygrays has claimed & described during his post about his contact sessions. That doesn’t matter though cause he took a cream puff and ranted about his constant victimisation from the "mindless" idiots on this site who do not take him seriously.



Geez, it’s the internet stop being ridiculous. says alot about their integrity and conviction which counts for alot when speaking the truth, this is one thing ill give ProbedbyGrays he does have both in one form or another. Respect is something you have a right to at the beginning of getting to know someone, sometimes it has to be gained, with others it will just wain eg due to notoriety for being a sulking liar.



would you stop being so patronising its pathetic



yeah the keyboard gangsters. haha! ba bum bum dish!



Not before they themselves dump aload of “dark matter” on everyone else screens.



The problem here is it isn’t just “one or two“, or “some” people it’s a whole community of them who have nothing to offer in the way of actual proof.

The aliens and ufo's forum is about proving/disproving alien encounters/sightings or evidence. It is not a creative writing forum, diary or therapy session. By posting no evidence.



True.



Enough of the guilt trip what age are you? [rhetorical question.]



Drama Queen. now theirs an understatement.



So your saying people like myself who arent gullible enough to accept your claims as anything but lies are the bad guys in all of this? And you are the brave preachers longing for acceptance, from funnily enough the people who ridicule you, why do you care so much when you are so special as to be enlightened or contacted?



Yes because people like me are stupid and ignorant not to face the facts, you are extremely patronising to the people who agree with you and are totally obnoxious to those who don’t.



If it bothers you so much why do you continue to post well after it started.

location the land of OZ thats more likely than your claims.



[edit on 12-1-2007 by marcopolo]

Probed, after reading most of this thread finally, I'd like to thank you for sharing your information. Most people do not want to admit they were wrong about a notion or unaware of it. Their ego won't allow it. But for those of us who can see past our ego, thank you. I like how you speak of emptying your mind. It is something society does not want to happen. They constantly want to fill that void to sell something or to distract you. Look at television for one example.

Western Society has long been scoffed at for being arrogant and ignorant. Societies that have been around for 1,000's of years have practiced many studies/religions/idealogies that encourage the void of mind. They believe the universe is much bigger than the mind. For example, many in Tibet use Singing Bowls to empty the mind and have experiences like no other.

Probed, could you please prove to us that We live in 3-d space and then go on to explain the dimensions of those 3 dimensions. Thank you

[edit on 12-1-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Oh boo hoo.

Look back into my posting history...when I first came to ATS I talked about a couple of things. I no longer discuss them in detail here.

Why? Because I realize I haven't got diddly for proof. Being a practical person by nature, and a skeptic myself...I had to stop and ask myself what it was I hoped for in relating the story (ies) of what I experienced.

This is, for the most part an anonymous place. Now I could have bantered away to my hearts content about "why" I believe, even against my own logical thinking that my experiences were not explainable with mainstream applications and sciences. THAT is my "personal" opinion.

Now personal opinion...gee it seems that's really all I've got as far as evidence goes...and damned if that is just NOT satisfying enough for me...how can I expect it to satisfy anyone else? So if I were to continually put my "personal opinion" out there and nothing else (back to this "truth" thing which is effectively what I refer to as "personal opinion") yes the discussion will HAVE to end up being personal...

BECAUSE...that is all that is presented. If you're nose is continually getting out of joint because people aren't buying what you have to say...how's about actually thinking good and hard about what you post and what you really hope to achieve by posting it?

You know I could have defended my position...but honestly I have too much respect for myself and for the field of UFOlogy and the study of possibilities to post a buncha frigging personal "feelings" and "truths" without having a shred of backing. And then argue endlessly and to no end about them...what is being achieved? What is the purpose?

Bringing word to the masses? What is your motivation?

Damn straight it becomes personal probed...that's all you offer...

While I admire your passion on the subject I get tired of fluff. Endless fluff.

There is security to a degree in this forum to post all kinds of garbage, all kinds of silliness and fantasy...but there comes a time when you have to rise above your own selfish need to be heard and seen and consider what you're putting out there. You don't like the responses that criticize your posts. Have you read them back before you hit the post button???? Seriously...

I now prefer to discuss my experiences with a much more discretion and thought and not willy nilly all over the web with little regard to the subject and topic being DAMAGED by spewing fluff and no substance (this really irritates me BTW - the DAMAGE done to the field of UFOlogy by this constant flood of fluff). I'm not that eager for attention (positive or negative) on it. It is mine to be choosy with. Like you I have no proof...but unlike you apparently, I can slip into the shoes of the skeptics and understand and appreciate why it isn't enough to simply say it happened and offer my "emotional" and "personal" thoughts on it. Who am I to demand that my "truth" be enough?

I'm not silenced. I'm just practical.

Think of it as damage control. Fluff vs facts...which harms the UFO community more?

I'm with Hank. And I've given him a WATS.

You think he's (and others) becoming too personal in his responses? Well what else have you given other than your "personal" opinions and "truths"? After a couple of months of reading your posts and replies to posts...I can't come to any conclusions that differ from what Hank has pointed out many times in many threads. I'm a believer but holy cow man there are limits and boundaries to acceptance of ideals and personal thoughts, opinions and "truths" of another...

Had I continued to discuss and post on my experience(s) with not a shred of proof...I'd expect no less than what you've gotten.


You approach things emotionally and your feelings get hurt. This is real life...it takes all kinds to make the rock spin. No one's trying to silence you...you misunderstand the motives clearly.

People who respond skeptically WANT something more than words. It really is that simple.

it is completely unfair for you to demand, expect or, assume that anyone should believe you. Let alone wielding "guilt trips" at those who query or criticize the non-factual statements you present.

The day ATS caters to the guilt trips presented by those with hurt feeling over not being believed (remember I'm included in there) that's the day I stop coming here for good. A separate forum for Alien fluff and non-factual information and unquestioned belief in said fluff???? You're joking right? A place where believers can go and never have to answer for their opinions or "truths"...never be criticized or put on the spot? Never asked to substantiate their fluff?

I'm designating this day as Hank appreciation day. he says what's on his mind. He presents clear and verifiable instances to back up what he says and what he points out.

I'm hitting the post button and that's it I'm done.

So i am a sheep because i wont swallow the rantings of a mentally ill fruitcake without asking for proof. Probed you are a contradiction. If u do not have proof, u have a STORY. Stories are CREATIVE WRITING. I think u need professional help. " Oh but imagine blah blah blah you are all ignorant because you aren't contactees......blah blah blah sheeple blah blah RANT RANT RANT."