Alber Pike and Lucifer

Albert Pike was a member of the York Rite also, and in an order which requires its members to be Christian. I don't know what else has to be said...


Oh and thanks seraphim

Originally posted by Criniit
Albert Pike was a member of the York Rite also, and in an order which requires its members to be Christian. I don't know what else has to be said...


Oh and thanks seraphim

Then indeed he may not have been enlightened after all.
Seriously, who really cares if he was a Christian or not? It doesnt necessarily mean hes a better person.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
Here are 3 paragraphs which i found on an anti-masonic 9-11 conspiracy site detailing Albert Pike and providing overwhelming evidence as to his Luciferian Ideals:
snip

Well there you have it folks. SkeptidGreek74 has found something that someone typed on an anti-masonic web-site therefore it MUST be true.

Let's all turn in our Masonic rings and find a Priest to exorcise ol' Lucifer out of us so we won't burn in hell for being Masons.

While we're at it, why don't we (the "mason/sheep") start being just like SkepticGreek74 and start believing everything we read. Heck, I'm tired of thinking for myself, what about you guys?

LOL! Just because I am convinced does not mean that everyone should be! Your correct in implying don't believe everything you read or here as it could be complete BS! Everyone should make up there own mind based on there own research and not just mine! Also, it would be a grave mistake for me to base my opinions on just one article from just one author, and I assure you I haven't. I have spent countless hours of my free time doing online research on many conspiracy topics including Masonry.

Anyways, the article I read is very articulate and goes into great depth about the Mason/Illuminati Order and their plans for a New World Order. According to the author, the Illuminati order is an elite offshoot of the highest ranking Free-Masons and these are the people who are actually possesed with world domination and are the true Luciferians. Thats the reason I stated in my previous post that 99% of Free-Masons are actually well-meaning but misguided sheep! Very few people on this earth know the actual agenda of the Illuminati Order. I am certainly NOT one of them but having said that I do have very strong suspicions as to their true nature and agenda. The author states that to understand some of their intentions one must first understand occult numerology/symbology and then try to correlate the numbers with world event dates. I think he was very successful with the examples he cited! I will not go into more details because the examples he cited where so many i would probably need 10 posts or more to include everything. I will try to find the link so that people can read it and make up their own minds. In the meantime, keep researching on your people as you will find many similar sites that expose these people for who they really are.

P.S. It is always tough to keep secrets but with the information age and freedom of speech it is almost impossible!

Ok. Here is the link: www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Warning if you are very sensitive then maybe you should not read this article or even visit this site and i do not know to what degree if any this information is true

[edit on 24-12-2006 by SkepticGreek74]

Why is it when people on this board don't agree with every thing masons say we don't think for ourselves is the comment? Don't believe everything you read is the next comment. So why should I believe everything you guys are trying to get me to read? Just because you have been a mason for 100's of years? I don't know you people. So who's to say you're not lying to me? Seraphim_Serpente I could care less if the questions I have asked have been answered a 100 times. I will ask it again. If it makes you mad sorry don't answer it.

why don't you open your mind & try to learn something!

No thanks I don't think I need to learn anything else from you nor the freemasons. I have my faith so opening my mind to what you want is something I would rather not do.

Why do you think that there is some sort of deception going on? Why don't you do some of the research your-self?

Thanks for the advice but I have researched for myself. Just because it doesn't agree with you does'nt mean I'am not thinking for myself. I like how this point comes up everytime someone questions what goes on in the lodge. Think for yourself.

SkepticGreek74 - Thank You. Your posts have been very Entertaining! I was wondering when you were going to mention the big bad "NWO"! Let me quote for you the Buddha - "All Things are Impermanent" - so much for the NWO! So "SkepticGreek74" - from what I take it from your posts - you probably believe that "Worshiping Ignorance" is the "Superior Alternative" to the vile "Luciferianism" that you mentioned! Let me guess your religion is the only "True Religion" & your God is the only "True God" & if we are all not exactly like you & agree on everything then we are "Satanists". Correct? Yes we have all been down this road before as well! It reeks of "Divide & Conquer" to me. Sorry I prefer Liberty & Freedom!

OK Andy - hey listen - I have nothing against you personally. As a matter of fact you remind me of another member that I had similar interactions with on this Forum a while back. All that I can say is that I am NOT trying to deceive you or Lie to you. We all have to find our own way in Life. I just hope that you don't get locked into a certain mode of thinking. I am not a "Bad Guy" - I promise! Good Luck!

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Why is it when people on this board don't agree with every thing masons say we don't think for ourselves is the comment? Don't believe everything you read is the next comment. So why should I believe everything you guys are trying to get me to read?

No one asked you to believe everything we suggest. We're just showing you the proverbial other side of the coin. You seem dead-set on believing ANYTHING negative and NOTHING positive about Freemasonry.

That's your choice. It's also closed-minded...like it or not.

Just because you have been a mason for 100's of years?

If I were going to check into a medical condition that I thought I might have, would I be better off asking a Physician or an Architect? Who knows MORE about Freemasonry? A guy off the street (particularly one who will willingly tell you everything you want to know for a few shekels) or uhm....let's see...uhm...a MASON?

I don't know you people. So who's to say you're not lying to me?

Oh. Then do you know the fine folks at "ex-Masons for Jesus"? If not, who's to say THEY aren't lying? Hm?

No thanks I don't think I need to learn anything else from you nor the freemasons.

Then I guess you won't be asking any more questions about Freemasonry, then? You already know all you care to know (even though much of it is unfounded)

I have my faith so opening my mind to what you want is something I would rather not do.

Has nothing to do with what I or anyone on the list "wants" You asked some questions, you posted some info, we responded. That's how a discussion forum works.

Thanks for the advice but I have researched for myself.

Sorry Andy, "Googling" up whatever Google brings up on your screen is NOT research. There's TONS of info out there that's NOT on the web.

Just because it doesn't agree with you does'nt mean I'am not thinking for myself. I like how this point comes up everytime someone questions what goes on in the lodge. Think for yourself.

Has nothing to do with people QUESTIONING what goes on in the Lodge...it has EVERYTHING to do with people CLAIMING that certain things go on in the Lodge when they've never PERSONALLY experienced it.

That's simply nonsense.

I don't think that everything in masonry is negitive. Some of the greatest speechs this nation has ever heard have been done by masons. Presidents to be exact. I don't go for the whole charity angle though. Because any of us can do that. But some of the speechs that have been said over the years. Yes are the best. They can really motivate someone to something out of the ordinary. Agree?

I find it that if one opens his mind many things can happen. An "open mind" is one that is open to all ideas, values, and behaviors. It is often accepted as the unbiased, non-dogmatic alternative to the "closed" mind—the deliberately stunted intellect that clings to a set of beliefs.

The first question to ask the person who tells you to keep an "open mind" is: "Open to what?" Nazism? Creationism? Female genital mutilation? Binge drinking?

Nazism is a political philosophy, which holds that the only purpose of the individual is to make sacrifices for the state and the master race. Should we be open to Nazism?

In many African cultures, female genital mutilation is a very common practice. Is it acceptable? Binge-drinking is one of the most popular weekend behaviors at Duke. Should students be open to binge drinking? After all, rejecting any of these ideas or behaviors would be "closed-minded."

Be open to this position, regardless of the evidence." Is what you are saying Appak?

The "open mind" is a cover for mental laziness. The goal of the person who tells you to "keep an 'open' mind" is to undercut your certainty in your beliefs without having to refute them or justify his own. Once he does this, he feels, "All of my ideas, values, and behaviors are legitimate. No one can say that they are wrong, if they try I'll call them 'closed-minded.'" The particular whims the "open" minded person indulges vary. The uncritical acceptance of his parents' religion, the voting habits of his racial "brothers," the binge-drinking habit of his fellow fraternity members, the Marxism of his Literature professors, or the Zen Buddhism of the Self Knowledge Symposium, are a few popular choices.

To the extent that he has any beliefs, the "open-minded" person chooses and accepts them arbitrarily, i.e., without rational basis. When encountering someone who claims objective knowledge, he is fiercely skeptical. "How do you know you're right? People make mistakes." "Lot's of people disagree with you. Aren't you open to what they have to say?" "Have you read such-and-such's book? Or encountered this religion? Well, then how do you know it's not right and you are?"

Yeah maybe a Mason know more then the guys running some of these websites. But thiers things that you are not going to tell me nor are your books because these are to kept secret. And can only really be revealed by joining the lodge. So why not go look for some different points of view? Can all these authors, webmasters, and scholars be wrong? No. Can some of it be far fetched? Sure.

Sure thier are some are some liars out there on the web. But their are many who are not. Some of it maybe unfounded.

Googling is not the only way to find information. Like we have stated their are a wealth of books availiable to all of us.

I will proably never experence the inititation. You are right about that. But you don't have to experience something to know that it's not right. I have never experience murdering someone neither. But I know that it's wrong. I have never had the experience of going to a stripper bar. But I know that it's wrong. So do I have to experence everything to form my own judgement? No.

"...that everything which man is put to do, if rightly and faithfully done, naturally helps to work out his salvation; that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling, he will be a good man:..." (Pike, p. 211 ).

Christianity teaches,

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2: 8,9. See also Romans 11:6).



[edit on 24-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]

"Masonry teaches its Initiates that the pursuits and occupations of this life, its activity, care, and ingenuity, the predestined developments of the nature given us by God, tend to promote His great design, in making the world; and are not at war with the great purpose of life. It teaches that everything is beautiful in its time, in its place, in its appointed office; that everything which man is put to do, if rightly and faithfully done, naturally helps to work out his salvation; that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling, he will be a good man: and that it is only by neglect and non-performance of the task set for him by Heaven, by wandering into idle dissipation, or by violating their beneficent and lofty spirit, that he becomes a bad man. The appointed action of life is the great training of Providence; and if man yields himself to it, he will need neither churches nor ordinances, except for the expression of his religious homage and gratitude."

Albert Pike


Try using the whole quote in context instead of part of the quote out of context next time.

What Pike is saying is that by doing good things on earth helps further along gods design. And that it makes you a good man. And that if you do bad things, evil things then it hinders gods design and it makes you a bad man. (I put it in VERY simplistic terms) He is not saying that you gain salvation through deeds.

that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling.

Obeys what? The teachings of the lodge or the teachings of the bible?


naturally helps to work out his salvation

Sorry but their can not be salvation through masonry.

that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling, he will be a good man: and that it is only by neglect and non-performance of the task set for him by Heaven,

Obeys what? That doing charity and joining the botherhood of man and the genuine principles of masonry one can get salvation?

The appointed action of life is the great training of Providence; and if man yields himself to it, he will need neither churches nor ordinances, except for the expression of his religious homage and gratitude."

Yielding training to Providence we will not have a need for churches. Yeah okay. I guess I should yield to the Providence of masonry. No thanks.

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
IMPO i don't think all the mason's are satanists. In fact, 99% of the masonists/sheep are probably mislead by the grand masters who ARE LUCIFERIANS especially in the Scottish Rite! I am not sure of the York Right. Here are 3 paragraphs which i found on an anti-masonic 9-11 conspiracy site detailing Albert Pike and providing overwhelming evidence as to his Luciferian Ideals:

Since you seem to not even know, a "Luciferian" is a student of the ancient church fathert St. Lucifer of Cagliari. If you don't believe me, look it up.

(1)Albert Pike (1809-1891) born on Dec 29. US lawyer, historian, general. Masonic author. Brig General, (Confederate Army), died in 1891. Well-known Masonic author (Morals and Dogma) and composer of the ritual for the concordant body, the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, he was elected Sovereign Grand Commander of that body in 1859, an office he held until his death. Appointed Grand Orator of the Grand Lodge of Arkansas on November 7, 1864, from 1853 onward he was, at various times, chairman of numerous committees and boards, as well as Grand Representative of four jurisdictions. The Main founder of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) see also: The Scottish Rite's KKK Project

Most of the above is correct. The problem lies within the last statements. Pike was never a member of the Ku Klux Klan, much less it's "main founder". Furthermore, there has never been any such thing as any "Scottish Rite KKK Project".

(2)Albert Pike created the 33rd degree of Masonry.

The 33rd degree was founded long before Pike was born. Brother Pike received the 33rd degree from Brother Albert Mackey.

This is Demonic in itself. So we have a confessed LUCIFERIAN (666) who created the 33rd degree of masonry and founded the KKK.

These are outright lies. Pike was a "confessed" Episcopalian. He did not "create the 33rd degree". And he was never a member of the KKK, much less the founder (those with more historical knowledge than "SkepticGreek" will recall the KKK was founded by Nathan Bedford Forrest).

Albert Pike addressing the 23 Supreme Councils of the world on July 14, 1889:- "To you, Sovereign Grand Instructors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: 'the Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN Doctrine. . ."

Albert Pike never addressed any "23 Supreme Councils of the World". The above quote is part of the famous anti-Masonic hoax, and was written by anti-Mason Leo Taxil. Anti-Masons throughout history have been notorious liars...thankfully, it's never been very difficult to expose their frauds.

(3)"Magic is the science of the ancient magi.... ``Magic unites in one and the same science, whatsoever Philosophy can possess that is most certain, and Religion of the Infallible and the Eternal. It perfectly ... reconciles these two terms ... faith and reason ... those who accept [magic] as a rule may give their will a sovereign power that will make them the masters of all inferior beings and of all errant spirits; that is to say, will make them the Arbiters and Kings of the World....'' Albert Pike Morals and Dogma

The actual quote from p. 841 - 842 of "Morals and Dogma" is as follows:


Magic is that which it is; it is by itself, like the mathematics; for it is the exact and absolute science of Nature and its laws.

Magic is the science of the Ancient Magi: and the Christian religion, which has imposed silence on the lying oracles, and put an end to the prestiges of the false Gods, itself reveres those Magi who came from the East, guided by a Star, to adore the Saviour of the world in His cradle.

Tradition also gives these Magi the title of "Kings;" because initiation into Magism constitutes a genuine royalty; and because the grand art of the Magi is styled by all the Adepts, "The Royal Art," or the Holy Realm or Empire, Sanctum Regnum.

The Star which guided them is that same Blazing Star, the image whereof we find in all initiations. To the Alchemists it is the sign of the Quintessence; to the Magists, the Grand Arcanum; to the Kabalists, the Sacred Pentagram. The study of this Pentagram could not but lead the Magi to the knowledge of the New Name which was about to raise itself above all names, and cause all creatures capable of adoration to bend the knee.

Magic unites in one and the same science, whatsoever Philosophy can possess that is most certain, and Religion of the Infallible and the Eternal. It perfectly and incontestably reconciles these two terms that at first blush seem so opposed to each other; faith and reason, science and creed, authority and liberty.

It supplies the human mind with an instrument of philosophical and religious certainty, exact as the mathematics, and accounting for the infallibility of the mathematics themselves.

Thus there is an Absolute, in the matters of the Intelligence and of Faith. The Supreme Reason has not left the gleams of the human understanding to vacillate at hazard. There is an incontestable verity, there is an infallible method of knowing this verity, and by the knowledge of it, those who accept it as a rule may give their will a sovereign power that will make them the masters of all inferior things and of all errant spirits; that is to say, will make them the Arbiters and Kings of the World.

Science has its nights and its dawns, because it gives the intellectual world a life which has its regulated movements and its progressive phases. It is with Truths, as with the luminous rays: nothing of what is concealed is lost; but also, nothing of what is discovered is absolutely new. God has been pleased to give to Science, which is the reflection of His Glory, the Seal of His Eternity.

It should be noted that Pike's words here are nothing new: the Wise have always known it, and have always taught it among the Sons of Men.





[edit on 24-12-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling.

Obeys what? The teachings of the lodge or the teachings of the bible?


naturally helps to work out his salvation

Sorry but their can not be salvation through masonry.

that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling, he will be a good man: and that it is only by neglect and non-performance of the task set for him by Heaven,

Obeys what? That doing charity and joining the botherhood of man and the genuine principles of masonry one can get salvation?

We are not here speaking on what will or what will not gain salvation. Each man has his own personal opinions about that; however, this is not a religious forum, so the question is not here our concern.

The question, in accordance with the topic, concerns the ideas of Brother Albert Pike, and the modern anti-Masons who would seek to malign him just because they disagree with him.

If you guys disagree with Pike, fine. Nobody's trying to force you to agree with him. But we as Masons have no choice but to question a person's integrity if they have to a lie about someone just because they disagree with him (and Andy, I'm insinuating you are lying about anything, I'm only making a point, re: other people in this thread who have lied about Pike just because they know perfectly well that if Pike were alive, he would certainly have pointed out they were full of s***).

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Sorry but their can not be salvation through masonry.

that if he obeys the genuine principles of his calling, he will be a good man: and that it is only by neglect and non-performance of the task set for him by Heaven,

Obeys what? That doing charity and joining the botherhood of man and the genuine principles of masonry one can get salvation?

Andy

You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that freemasonry offers some form of salvation. It does not.

from www.grandlodge-england.org...

Freemasonry lacks the basic elements of religion.

a) it has no theological doctrine, and by forbidding religious discussion at its meetings will not allow a Masonic theological doctrine to develop.

b) It offers no sacraments.

c) It does not claim to lead to salvation by works, by secret knowledge or by any other means. The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with modes of recognition and not with salvation.

It's all god M.L. I know what you are saying. It's been said many times here that Pike founded the K.K.K. I'am not sure if he did our didn't. That was a very long time ago...in a galaxy not far away.... Couldnt resist. Let's say that record keeping wasn't like it is today. Theirs no way to prove he was a founder. Unless their's a picture of this guy in a pillow case hood. That's the only way to really prove it. So I think it's time to move on with the K.K.K and the Pike connection.

Next subject/topic

Masonry teaches its Initiates

Now Pike is says that Masonry teachs the Initiates. From reading the paragraph what I said in my other post I believe it means.

He believes the genuine principles of his calling he will be a good man. What if the mason believes that the genuine principles of masonry is his calling? When it should be the word of god that's our calling.

First, in my last post, I meant to say I'm not insinuating you were lying. Sorry about that, just a typo.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
He believes the genuine principles of his calling he will be a good man. What if the mason believes that the genuine principles of masonry is his calling? When it should be the word of god that's our calling.

I believe that the genuine principles of Masonry and the word of God are the same thing. I cannot speak for Brother Pike, but if I were a betting man, I'd wager he probably would have agreed with me.

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
It's all god M.L. I know what you are saying. It's been said many times here that Pike founded the K.K.K. I'am not sure if he did our didn't. That was a very long time ago...in a galaxy not far away....

Couldnt resist. Let's say that record keeping wasn't like it is today. Theirs no way to prove he was a founder. Unless their's a picture of this guy in a pillow case hood. That's the only way to really prove it. So I think it's time to move on with the K.K.K and the Pike connection.

Next subject/topic

Masonry teaches its Initiates

Now Pike is says that Masonry teachs the Initiates. From reading the paragraph what I said in my other post I believe it means.

He believes the genuine principles of his calling he will be a good man. What if the mason believes that the genuine principles of masonry is his calling? When it should be the word of god that's our calling.

I believe that God would want me to be a good man... What the mason believes as far as religion is his own journey, it has nothing to do with the lodge.

God wants us all to be good men. We don't need masonry to do this though. I has been well documented that you must believe in a supreme being when wanting to join the lodge. So in actuality religion and this Pike quote has much to do with the lodge.

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
God wants us all to be good men. We don't need masonry to do this though. I has been well documented that you must believe in a supreme being when wanting to join the lodge. So in actuality religion and this Pike quote has much to do with the lodge.

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]

No you don't need masonry to be a good man. But the principles that masons live by helps them to be better men.

So myself I'am a good man. Now I need masonry to be a better man? And only through masonry I will be a better man? I really don't think so. Their are many men out their who are not masons who are great men. I really don't think that I need masonry to get better enlightenment or to be a better man.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
So myself I'am a good man. Now I need masonry to be a better man? And only through masonry I will be a better man? I really don't think so. Their are many men out their who are not masons who are great men. I really don't think that I need masonry to get better enlightenment or to be a better man.

No. You do not. I have personally said it before. Masonry is NOT for everyone. It is OBVIOUSLY not for you, Andy. In fact, you've apparently drawn your own conclusions about the fraternity so you OBVIOUSLY would NOT be a good Mason. Therefore we neither NEED you, NOR do we WANT you.

No offense meant by that.

You do not need Freemasonry and Freemasonry does not need you.

I for one LOVE Freemasonry. Do I NEED it? Not necessarily. Do I enjoy participating in it? CERTAINLY.

Can I be a good man without it? Again, Certainly.

Has it been good for me? Certainly.

Not everyone would or even COULD enjoy it. That's why it's not for everyone.

BUT the fact that it's NOT for everyone (including obviously YOU) doesn't make it evil.

[edit on 24-12-2006 by Appak]