An Advanced Civilization on Earth Thousands Of Years Ago??

For those who haven’t heard of the greatest Indian epic, the Mahabharata, here’s a small primer. This is an epic written in Sanskrit more than 2000 years ago and describes the technology of those bygone eras.

At the time of the complete literal English translation, between the years 1886-1890, no aircraft ever flew and missiles were unheard of.

This is an extract of the text from Volume III, Vana Parva, Section XLII (42), with images of what the author could have been possibly trying to describe.


Vaicampayana said: After the Lokopalas had gone away,
Arjuna - that slayer of all foes - began to think,
O monarch, of the car of Indra!
And as Gudakeça gifted with great intelligence was thinking of it,
the car endued with great effulgence and guided by Matali,
came dividing the clouds and illuminating the firmament
and filling the entire welkin with its rattle
deep as the roar of mighty masses of clouds.


Swords, and miscrias of terrible forms,
and maces of frightful description,
and winged darts of celestial splendor


and lightnings of the brightest effulgence,
and thunderbolts

There’s more here!!

Was all this imagination? Is it possible for anyone to write about and describe something he had never seen before and was non-existent at that time? Was it true then? If so, it changes ancient history as we know it!!.

Courtesy: Holger Isenberg

wishing you had bothered to use the search function on this one Mike
its been done to death
the final consensus was
it all depends on which translation you are using
and really
the Mahabarata was written as you rightly said around 500bce
so are we supposed to believe that these details were passed down for some reason without being written down for thousands of years
what was it a secret or something, somebody sets off a nuke and nobody notices apart from some scribes thousands of years later
and also of course
there is no evidence of any advanced weapons technology in ancient human history anywhere except for a few anomalous texts that on the whole arent all that ancient and generally have been proved over and over to have been translated incorrectly by people with agendas

Originally posted by mikesingh
At the time of the complete literal English translation, between the years 1886-1890, no aircraft ever flew and missiles were unheard of.

en.wikipedia.org...

On 24 September 1852 he made the first powered and controlled flight traveling 27 km from Paris to Trappes.

Oh and rockets has been used since the 14th-15th century and was quite refined at the time... Does "--- And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, ---" ring a bell?

So I say that statement is incorrect. They knew about flight and they knew very well about rocketry. But granted, they did not know about flying machines using heatseeking missiles that could level entire cities to the ground, no.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by merka]

Does "--- And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, ---" ring a bell?

yes its from the lyrics to the star spangled banner written by Francis Scott Key in 1814.
thats 31 years after the first manned flight in a balloon by the montgolfier brothers

folks, let's not ridicule....lets look at this with an honest and open discussion.

first of all, as much as i hate to agree with marduk about anything, parts of Mahabharata (the really fantastic stuff) were written much later through visions given to the writers by the spirits of their ancestors. having noted that, however, there is alot of proof out there of possible nuclear explosions in prehistoric asia.

the following links were provided by fellow ats member Long Lance in my thread entitled civilization on this planet:

source
The following item appeared in the New York Herald Tribune on February 16, 1947 (and was repeated by Ivan T. Sanderson in the January 1970 issue of his magazine, Pursuit):

When the first atomic bomb exploded in New Mexico, the desert sand turned to fused green glass. This fact, according to the magazine Free World, has given certain archaeologists a turn. They have been digging in the ancient Euphrates Valley and have uncovered a layer of agrarian culture 8,000 years old, and a layer of herdsman culture much older, and a still older caveman culture. Recently, they reached another layer.of fused green glass.

It is well known that atomic detonations on or above a sandy desert will melt the silicon in the sand and turn the surface of the Earth into a sheet of glass. But if sheets of ancient desert glass can be found in various parts of the world, does it mean that atomic wars were fought in the ancient past or, at the very least, that atomic testing occurred in the dim ages of history?

This is a startling theory, but one that is not lacking in evidence, as such ancient sheets of desert glass are a geological fact. Lightning strikes can sometimes fuse sand, meteorologists contend, but this is always in a distinctive root-like pattern. These strange geological oddities are called fulgurites and manifest as branched tubular forms rather than as flat sheets of fused sand. Therefore, lightning is largely ruled out as the cause of such finds by geologists, who prefer to hold onto the theory of a meteor or comet strike as the cause. The problem with this theory is that there is usually no crater associated with these anomalous sheets of glass.

additional links provided by lance:

The Evidence for Ancient Atomic Warfare

Nuclear Warfare in Antiquity

that last link is more of an alien oriented kind of sight, but still has some useful info for this discussion.

you failed to mention that your extract is currently being used by the ooparts site to prove that the earth was built in seven days in 4004bce by some guy called God
s8int.com... (halfway down the page)

but okay then i see your 1947 article and raise you this contemporary analysis of the same desert glass
www.saharamet.com...

Libyan Desert Glass is a natural glass composed of nearly pure silica (98 wt %). The formation of this glass, because of its unusual composition has for long been considered as mysterious. Chemical analyses show that the glass is locally enriched in meteoritic elements, with typical chondritic proportions. The only explanation for these observations is that Libyan Desert Glass results from a meteorite impact on a silica-rich target.

This comes with an available booklet from a meeting of qualified experts who all analysed this desert glass
www.df.unibo.it...


I would also raise you this statement by Essan on the very same subject

Come now Marduk: you should know full well by now that posting links to internet websites that support your conjectures is simply not allowed. Showing that every other expert on the subject agrees with you, or that your idea is support by masses and masses of empirical evidence is simply cheating and means you're incapable of thinking for yourself!

What you have to do is refer people to a long out of print book from the 19th or early 20th century, preferably by some bloke no one has heard of. Note: it must be one which takes no account of modern scientific theories all of which are complete bunkum (plate tectonics? pollen studies? don't make me laugh ....!!!! ). This shows that you have done proper research and are undoubtably right about absolutely everything.

your call Snafu

folks, let's not ridicule

there has been no attempt to ridicule as of yet
is this another shallow attempt on your part to discredit the truth because of your erroneous personal belief ?

[edit on 20-12-2006 by Marduk]

I'd like to add that the crater to which the Libyan desert glass can be attributed has actually been found.

It's a recent geological find. I'd provide a link to more info on it, but I fear to use Google anymore and I'm on the computer at the Library (no "favorites" file.)

I guess it would be okay to use a Yahoo search or maybe Ask.com?

Try the search terms "Saharan glass crater."

Harte

Originally posted by Marduk



I would also raise you this statement by Essan on the very same subject

Come now Marduk: you should know full well by now that posting links to internet websites that support your conjectures is simply not allowed. Showing that every other expert on the subject agrees with you, or that your idea is support by masses and masses of empirical evidence is simply cheating and means you're incapable of thinking for yourself!

What you have to do is refer people to a long out of print book from the 19th or early 20th century, preferably by some bloke no one has heard of. Note: it must be one which takes no account of modern scientific theories all of which are complete bunkum (plate tectonics? pollen studies? don't make me laugh ....!!!! ). This shows that you have done proper research and are undoubtably right about absolutely everything.

your call Snafu

folks, let's not ridicule

there has been no attempt to ridicule as of yet
is this another shallow attempt on your part to discredit the truth because of your erroneous personal belief ?

this is exactly what i'm talking about with you. instead of just presenting the facts, you have to interject personal remarks and attempt to ridicule people in order to show how smart you are. well congratulations marduk....in all the time i've been here, i have never felt the need or desire to add anyone to my ignore list.....but you have just become the first. the really sad part is that if it werent for your smartass behaviour, you could be a star here on ats with your wealth of info.....i for one, however, would rather be in the dark in regards to your information than to be submitted continuously to your complete lack of respect for anyone or anything. seeya around (actually, i wont....hehe).

now that i no longer have to deal with the troll, shall we continue the discussion? i have no doubts about his information regarding this particular field of green glass, but has there be any research on any of the others? this, afterall, is not the only field of green glass out there.

Now how about the discovery of green glass in the ruins of Mohenjo Daro?

The archaeological expedition, which carried out excavations near the Indian settlement of Mohenjo-Daro in the beginning of the 1900s, uncovered the ruins of a big ancient town. The town belonged to one of the most developed civilizations in the world.

Scientists Davneport and Vincenti put forward an amazing theory. They stated the ancient town had been ruined with a nuclear blast. They found big stratums of clay and green glass. Apparently, archaeologists supposed, high temperature melted clay and sand and they hardened immediately afterwards. Similar stratums of green glass can also found in Nevada deserts after every nuclear explosion.

So what does one make of this?

Here..

I read the Mahabharata in high school. It's a really good book. I never got even the slightest impression that it bespoke of an advanced civilization.

A lot of popular, ancient literature have very colorful, illustrative, and figurative writing that could easily be interpreted incorrectly in our modern society.

Originally posted by Marduk
but okay then i see your 1947 article and raise you this contemporary analysis of the same desert glass
www.saharamet.com...

Libyan Desert Glass is a natural glass composed of nearly pure silica (98 wt %). The formation of this glass, because of its unusual composition has for long been considered as mysterious. Chemical analyses show that the glass is locally enriched in meteoritic elements, with typical chondritic proportions. The only explanation for these observations is that Libyan Desert Glass results from a meteorite impact on a silica-rich target.

This comes with an available booklet from a meeting of qualified experts who all analysed this desert glass
www.df.unibo.it...
dit on 20-12-2006 by Marduk]

That's also what I said in that thread. I didn't have the source to back me up, but I knew it had to be another, more logical possibility.

TheBorg

Originally posted by mikesingh

So what does one make of this?

Here..

Complete fiction.

For starters, the skeletons were found on layers above the ruins of the city, showing they had died long after it had been abandoned. And some of theoir bones had deep cuts inn them - typical of sword or axe injuries.

They were originally used as evidence for a hostile 'Aryan' invasion but nowadays are believed to be the remains of squatters killed by bandits.

And rather oddly, none of those who actually carried out excavations at Mohenjo-daro ever reported melted clay or glass indicative of very high temperatures ... I wonder why?

www.geocities.com...

snafu
this is exactly what i'm talking about with you. instead of just presenting the facts, you have to interject personal remarks and attempt to ridicule people

snafu
if it werent for your smartass behaviour

snafu
your complete lack of respect for anyone or anything

now that i no longer have to deal with the troll

Hypocrite:-
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

you could be a star here on ats with your wealth of info

I have no wish or desire to be a star here or anywhere
I just post the truth backed up by credible links

i for one, however, would rather be in the dark in regards to your information

theres this river in africa
perhaps you've heard of it
dictionary.reference.com...

Marduk and Snafu! PEACE!

Looks like there's another darn 'Mahabharata' goin' on between the two of you!!

...Which resembles 'Lightnings of the brightest effulgence, and thunderbolts hurled at each other, illuminating the ATS firmament and filling this entire freakin' thread with a rattle as deep as the roar of mighty masses of clouds'!!!

No use telling Marduk to behave himself and be more objective in his presentation of his 'facts'. Ridicule is his way to kill a topic, he has all the time in the world to do it here while the rest of us have a life and other work to perform. Just ignore him, cos no matter what he presents, his only interest is in killing a thread, having the last word, show his deluded sense of 'intellect', nothing to do with the truth.

IF only he had been more objective, he would have research both views on a topic and do a proper presentation, but unfortunately no, he prefers to stick to old school of thoughts, not question old knowledge for the betterment of science and be comfortable there in that zone.

I can understand that emotion, because he probably studied hard to be where he is and others MUST respect his 'knowledge'. Unfortunately, knowledge is not a lake but a running stream. What we know today will be obsolete with new understanding tomorrow. This is a fact. Please prove me wrong.

Take the example of LDG - libyan desert glass. His claim that ALL geologists agree to it is due to metorite origin in another thread is erraneous. Many are comfortable with that explanation, but unfortunately, many others are not due to several factors. Unless we have all the facts, to allude LDG to metorites is only lying to ourselves and that's NOT the way of science or knowledge

A) If any is from Washington University in St. Louis, go check "The Enigma of Libyan Desert Glass." a presentation by Robert A. Weeks, prof. emeritus, Vanderbilt U in Oct 2000.

Briefly:-The enigma of this glass is:

1. The amount. It is the largest known deposit of a natural silica glass, ~98% SiO2 , on Earth.
2. It's distribution. The distribution is approximately elliptical, ~130 km by ~50 km with the major axis ~NNW by SSE.

3. Physical properties. The composition and structure of the glass are consistent with a hypothesis that the glass was formed from melted desert dune sand and subsequently cooled over a period greater than 24 hours in an Earth atmosphere.

4. Fusion energy. Possibly a meteorite or comet impact, but there are no meteor craters detectable from satellite photos with a resolution of ~5m within 150 km. No Libyan Desert Glass has been found at the nearest meteorite crater, located in Libya, ~150km to the west.

5. Chemistry. The glass cannot have been fused from the local exposed sandstone.

6. Age of glass and dunes. The dune sand and dunes have been formed in a time estimated to be less than 1,000,000 years, yet the fission track dates of the glass have a mean of ~28,000,000 years.

7. Surface geology. 28,000,000 years ago some geologists estimate that the sandstone was beneath ~300m of limestone and covered with vegetation.

B) Another school of thought, hydrothermal hypothesis
hometown.aol.de...

C.)New Mexico atomic blast test turns desert sands into fused green glass:- New York Herald Tribune on February 16, 1947

D.) Radioactive melting. A primer for Thermal radiation:-en.wikipedia.org...

As much as i hate to link to websites for research, i would recommend those who are serious to go to your local libraries for information. It is more detailed. google fu are only summarised or limited versions.


Edit:- Allow me to spare you using the dispute of trinitite/atomite glass from atomic test explosions in comparisons to LDG. The type of glass is fully dependent on the type of geological ground the impact occurs, as well as as the power magnitude of the explosion/blast.


[edit on 21-12-2006 by SeekerofTruth102]

Although there may be some doubts over how and when the Libyan desert glass was formed, it's a massive leap of faith from that to suggesting it fo
formed as a result of a nuclear explosion. And it does appear that there is no evidence at all that t formed within the past few hundred thousand years - making it somewhat unlikely to be evidence of a ice age civilisation indulging in nuclear conflicts.

The most recent theory is a tunguska type meteoritic explosion in the atmosphere

news.bbc.co.uk...

No use telling Marduk to behave himself and be more objective in his presentation of his 'facts'. Ridicule is his way to kill a topic

please feel free to show me where I ridiculed anything in this thread at the point that Snafu accused me of doing so

his only interest is in killing a thread

I have already stated that my only interest is in showing the truth backed by very credible links
yours seems to be to attack me at every oppotunity and post complete crap backed by nothing but your personal belief. Is it any wonder that most people regard you as a complete crank who wouldn't know the truth if it kicked you in the ass.

he prefers to stick to old school of thoughts

thats why my links are always contemporary and up to date backed by empirical evidence whereas yours are usually based on an old claim from a pseudo history site thats normally easily traced back to an alternative historian or a pseudoscientist

What we know today will be obsolete with new understanding tomorrow

in your dreams what we know tomorrow will be based on our current understanding of the facts and not your fertile imagination

Many are comfortable with that explanation, but unfortunately, many others are not due to several factors

this is a total straw man argument
name me some qualified geologists that believe that LDG was formed by a nuclear weapon thousands of years ago
please name just 10
no
name 5
or even just one

so here is some brand new information for you to consider
it certainly overturns the out of date crap that you listed for your hydrothermal hypothesis
www.planetary.org...

According to a news item in this week's issue of Science magazine, planetary scientist Farouk El-Baz has just discovered "the largest crater yet found in the Sahara," and is suggesting that it has the right characteristics to answer a long-standing mystery. Since 1932, scientists have been picking up yellow-green glass in a 60-by-100-kilometer (35-by-60-mile) area of the desert of southern Egypt near the Libyan border. Study of the glass has revealed the unmistakable isotopic signature of an asteroid impact, but the source crater has never been found -- until now.

so basically seekerof lies you can stick your ideas where the sun doesnt shine because once again they and you have proven to be totally erroneous and a complete waste of time

and i'd like to point out here that you started your post complaining that I ridiculed someone when i clearly didnt and then risiculed me yourself
so you can have this to put on your trophy shelf as well
Hypocrite:-
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

lol! do go on with your 'stick it in the place where the sun don't shine remarks'. As usual, only your links are 'truth' and 'credible'. Anyone specialist or professor who disagrees with your hubric delusions are psuedo quacks.

Sigh...after all these years here, i would have thought you would have come out with something original. Don't you get tired of it? or is this hubris delusion is a form of 'life' to your warped pathetic lonely existence?

lol! do go on with your 'stick it in the place where the sun don't shine remarks'. As usual, only your links are 'truth' and 'credible'. Anyone specialist or professor who disagrees with your hubric delusions are psuedo quacks.

my links are credible because they are up to date
and i see you couldn't produce one qualified geologist who agrees with your version of events
now why might that be d'ya think

Sigh...after all these years here, i would have thought you would have come out with something original. Don't you get tired of it? or is this hubris delusion is a form of 'life' to your warped pathetic lonely existence?

I have been posting here since Registered: 17-9-2005 so once again you are barely registering the facts of the matter during your ranting
I never get tired of showing up pathetic little liars like you who would rather believe the fantasy that is formed in their childlike understanding of the world around them than actually look at the true history of mankind
you psuedonym is seekeroftruth, you don't think thats a little erroneous when everytime someone hands you the truth on a platter you resort to personal attacks
why don't you go back through your posts in this thread and show me where just one of them doesn't contain a personal attack against me
then you'll be able to see which one of us lives a

warped pathetic lonely existence?

laughing at your lack of intellect and reason
your useless attempts at offense make me roar with laughter Seekerofcrap
i wanted you to know that

merry xmas