Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
King, while that may indeed be the case. Do you really think a ten year old child is old enough, especially in the manner that this camp is coming across, to understand this?

I think a children should know there is a spiritual war going on and that they need to fight (spiritually) against evil but the manner in which they are being told is not something I would want my child exposed to. I don't know many people that would.

Kacen, the only reason I think that there may be some cause for hope is because some of those kids had questioning expressions on their face. At some intervals they were like, "Wait a minute? That doesn't sound right."

Originally posted by Ford Farmer
What makes those kids any better than the "terrorists," They are willing to murder for their "righteous" cause. it makes me sick

I find the woman's most accurate insight is the comparison she draws between her camp and the brow-beating, learn by rote, hate the infidel camp of her self-proclaimed nemisis - the fighting muslims.

In hindsight, I watched the whole thing a while back, I find a great deal of pathos in the woman's intentions; which she believes are entirely good. I heard the camp has since closed down, I wonder if all the backlash has solidified her dogma or loosened it. We all know that old platitude the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

One of the most disturbing moments is Haggard's sermon and involvment in the camp. It's well known among investigators that pedophiles are attracted to jobs with children. That kind of environment with it's mental manipulation and dogmatic authority are perfect for such predators.

I wonder how young Ted Haggard's penchants go.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by clearwater]

Originally posted by kinglizard
I think a children should know there is a spiritual war going on and that they need to fight (spiritually) against evil but the manner in which they are being told is not something I would want my child exposed to. I don't know many people that would.

I can accept that.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Kacen, the only reason I think that there may be some cause for hope is because some of those kids had questioning expressions on their face. At some intervals they were like, "Wait a minute? That doesn't sound right."

Maybe, although nothing like that stood out to me for some reason. Maybe I wasn't paying attention hard enough...

I just wanted to add that I found the end of the movie a rather ironic visual analogy. There she is scrubbing her car clean. The single greatest cause of the end of civilization as we know it and the largest source of contention over which the powers fight - oil. There she is happily scrubbing her 2000 pounds of modern sin clean.

Originally posted by Kacen
Maybe, although nothing like that stood out to me for some reason. Maybe I wasn't paying attention hard enough...

Well, being someone who doesn't like talking on the phone because I like seeing their facial expressions while I am talking to them, I notice things like that. Facial expressions tell us alot about people's opinions of what they are being told.

HOLY FRIGGIN' CRAP.

wow, that blew my mind man. all those weak minds make for some scary stuff.



[edit on 20-12-2006 by stingray]

Stingray,I think that is the major problem that most of us have with this "camp." Perhaps when this lady is talking about going to war, she is just referring to a "spiritual war." However, you average 5-10 year old kid is not going to even undestand what "spiritual warfare " is, especially when presented in a manner such as this.

Would I die for God? Certainly. However, I am an adult and have made that declaration on my own. When these children are asked that question....it's a whole different ballgame. Why? Well, for one they have not even lived long enough to answer that question with any degree of honesty or what the implication of such a decision is.



[edit on 20-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

it seems there is a desperation growing among fundamentalists:'..Bush / republicans recieved the backlash they deserved at the Polls...."Christian Leaders" are being arrested for molestation, solicitation, There are many apocryphal Books of the Bible being published, the gospel of Judas, the De Vinci Code, etc, etc....

It seems a subconcious realization that the Christian Faith is undergoing some testing by fire, and it isnt looking good. People might get more proactive to recruit and brainwash if need be...

its an unfortunate interpretation of such simple mission that Christ left for his church.

I believe children that have been raised in Christianity understand the difference between spiritual warfare and physical warfare. You've got songs like "I'm In The Lord's Army" and "Onward Christian Soldiers" and even the Salvation Army. The Bible supports the idea of spiritual warfare and that forces of Satan must be battled.

Not saying that the folks running the camp were right, just saying that they aren't necessarily wrong.

Oh,Southern, I am not implying that some of their principles were not right because I think that some of them were. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to present them. I think if you will watch the video, you will come to the conclusion that some of their tactics were at least questionable.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
ivzm, you are right. Not all Christians are like this. However, unfortunately for the Christian faith, there does seem to be a move in that direction. Although, I think there is enough good Christians to fight off this onslaught, I am just concerned about how the secularist and such are going to react to this stuff. I mean, hell, I am Christian, albeit not an orthodox one, and this sickens me. I can only imagine what runs through an atheists mind when they watch this video.

As an athiest, this basically tells me that I should try and fast as I can to get off this planet, just like Stephen Hawking says. :-P It infuriates me that they're teaching children that Muslims are bad and Christians are better, and then proceed to tell them to be willing to lay down their lives for God, all while worshipping the worst President this country has ever known! Half these kids looks so overwhelmed and confused by all the yelling and everything that is going on. They don't even know why they're crying!

When that one dude tells kids to pray to god to end abortion, he mentions the 'protoplasm or whatever that is.' Everyone laughs off the the notion that somehow we managed to SCIENTIFCALLY PROVE how babies are made. It's #ing genetics! They revel in their own ignorance to forward their agenda.

I just had a wash of inspiration. Now that I think about it, every powerful organization counts on themselves not knowing all sides of a story, to better further their cause. Good thing I'm not in a rush for power, lest I completely QUIT the ATS community and stop learning more about the world around me. Everything is God's fault/path...I guess when you have a coverall like that you can get away with anything...

Sorry for the rant, but this has gotten to my core.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Well,gforce, any attempt to "leave the planet" is not likely to happen soon. Although, even as, at least technically speaking, a Christian there are times I wish this world would just quit spinning and let me jump off as well. This video didn't do anything to alleviate that desire.

[edit on 21-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

"they are so usable in Christianity" I almost died when I heard that, I cant believe she actually said that.

A couple little things that caught my ear.

I wonder if she conciously realizes that she is taking advantage of children, or if she truly believes it is all part of her "calling."

Bull#.

Oh, on a slightly more humorous note, Teddy boy says that Levi's interest in preaching faith is "Fabulous."
Then, he says "use your cute kid thing until you're 30, then you'll have good content."

What he then says right after that, talking about evolution vs. creationism - he doesn't seem to be discussing the fact at all, he merely states that they tell this to children because this is what they'd rather believe. I guess my point is that this guy realizes he's lying to kids, but would not dare say so.

"It's a fabulous life." - Teddy

Prick.

P.S. - Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against homosexuality. But it's the deceit and the complete lack of credibility that he now has that irks me.

There's something I don't get.

Who are these people worshipping? God? Jesus W. Bush...err George W. Bush? The United States? A fetus? I thought Christians were monotheists, but they seem to worship a number of different gods.

These Neo-Christians confuse me.

Super Cheetah, they seem to be somewhat confused themselves. If they don't even understand exactly what they are doing, then surely one must understand that a 5-10 year old child doesn't understand. Actually, this is what makes it really scary is because they don't understand.

Now, we can try and justify the "war talk" as being a reference to "spiritual warfare;" however, it would be interesting to do a poll to determine whether these kids understand that.I suspect that they may not.