While it's true that Evangelicals are prone to being sidetracked by valence issues in elections, and thus vote for Republicans without realizing that Republicans only pretend to be moral, they're not stupid people and they have a strong faith in God.

Of course, I'm not a Pentecostal and don't want to be . . . almost all Evangelical Christians view Pentecostals as being somewhat extreme, but I support what they're doing, generally. It's better to brainwash kids to do what's right than it is to give them the entire world of choices and watch them choose their own path to Hell amidst a cloud of learning and enlightenment.

Originally posted by southern_cross3
It's better to brainwash kids to do what's right than it is to give them the entire world of choices and watch them choose their own path to Hell amidst a cloud of learning and enlightenment.

Now that I couldn't disagree more with. You honestly believe that,eh? So much for free will. So much for freedom period. Yeah, folks, let's all just brainwash our kids to our own personal ideologies. Let's train them to never question or search for answers on their own. That only leads to "hell." WOW!! Okay.... Hey, but to each his/her own.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 22-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 22-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Its not just brainwashing displayed, but the willingness and participation of familys in the audience. This was truly distrurbing and thank God ( pun intended) this got out to the public, so they see with their own eyes what is going on. Thankfully this camp was closed and hopefully the people in it are viewed suspiciously around children.

there is no justification for this. I dont remember reading in the bible the indoctrination of children. teaching, yes. This utter disregard for the well being of a child, NO.

It's ridiculous to assume that anyone can have a childhood without being influenced, or "brainwashed" as everyone seems to be calling it. Everyone is taught by their parents, or ought to be at any rate, and every aspect of society imparts on us certain ideas. Is this brainwashing? I don't consider it to be so. It's only natural for people to pass on what they believe is right.

If you want to talk about indoctrination, let's take a look at human evolution. This is a theory which is not only taught in public schools as truth, but which has managed to ban the competition as well. Children are indoctrinated to believe in human evolution. Is this brainwashing?

I think not. No matter how much one has been influenced, he or she still has the free will to reject all influence, and many do. Just how many people here agree with their parents or teachers about everything?

Southern,you obviously have not viewed the video. Although, I must say that juding by the majority of your posts, it's doubtful that it will change your stance on anything. So, maybe it's just as well that you not watch it. I don't think it would make much of a difference. You would look for some way to justify their tactic simply on the fact that they call themselves "christian."

Boy where to begin . First off i'm of no religion. I find this video to be very disturbing. I don't see how anyone can view this and not say that it's not damaging to these young children. Create christan camps to drill young children and making them cry that they did such a mortal sin for cursing in school. I hardly believe that GOD is going to vaporize your childs soul for having a fight or name calling in school. The thing of warlocks and Harry Potter was a bit much. Not sure exactly what she was spouting about; Wrong to read harry potter books or actualy use wizardry? Which are nothing more then fantasy. Many kids faces in the video are so confused and puzzled, some even shocked. That isn't damaging? Suddenly their worlds turned because this woman appointed herself 'holier then thou' with 'her' belief.

The part where christian kids should fight for what they believe in and be trained like muslim children is insanity. That is precisely the problem in the world now and this very momment. Give them kids a ak47! Teach them while their young to kill kill kill and blow themselves up! If the evil and war in the world can't be tamed then fight them with our own War! See how sick that sounds? People tend to forget that religion has been the root cause of wars, chaos, death and destruction then anything else.

One part of the video of the kids bowling and her praying to make a strike. What was the final outcome? Gutter ball! This is a perfect example. If that isn't brainwashing then I don't know what is. These kids honestly believe that GOD is going to help them succeed in life. There is no help but self help.

Teaching evolution is being compared to suicidal theologies..?
Get real.


Sick people ran the Jesus Camp, it was recognized as such and shut down. the proof is in the closure of the camp.

Originally posted by toolman




Sick people ran the Jesus Camp, it was recognized as such and shut down. the proof is in the closure of the camp.

Oh no!! Didn't you know, toolman, it was closed down because of intolerance toward "Christian" theology. I am Christian and I can tell you, I would opt to close this "camp" down in a heartbeat.

[edit on 23-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 23-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

OK I'm at 35:35 in Jesus Camp. I have only read about the first page of posts but I have to post now in response to the first page of posts. So far it seems pretty benign. Perhaps some of your misunderstandings of Christianity and its teachings is what is causing some of you to misinterpret what is being said.

1) Christian's believe they are in a war not against flesh and blood people, i.e. muslims but against the devil and the forces of darkness. When they say they want to fight and die for Jesus they aren't saying that they will go out and kill people who aren't Christians they are saying that they will die before they renounce their faith. I hope I would do that in that place as well.

2) Harry Potter is a children's book about witches and majic. If Harry Potter had been a real person in Old Testament times then yes the Jews would have put him to death. This was done many times in the Old Testament. However, Christians follow the teachings of Christ. He walked with sinners and ministered to them. He didn't put anyone to death. He was put to death.

3) The tone of the posts seem to say that these people are a cult. The definition of a cult means to be set apart. Christians are to be set apart from the world by trying to live lives that honor God.

Lastly, I was raised in a strong Christian family and understand things about the Christian faith that many of you apparently don't. However, I am not a good example of a Christian so don't go pointing out my failings as anything negative about Christians.

[edit on 23-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Christian's believe they are in a war not against flesh and blood people, i.e. muslims but against the devil and the forces of darkness. When they say they want to fight and die for Jesus they aren't saying that they will go out and kill people who aren't Christians they are saying that they will die before they renounce their faith. I hope I would do that in that place as well.

Well,as I have already asked, is a 5-10 year old intelligent enough to understand this concept, particularly in the manner that this "camp" presented it? I am well aware of the whole "spiritual warfare" bit. I'd also be willing to lay my life down for God, but I am 29 years old and have the ability to make that decision. I am sorry, but a 5-10 year old child doesn't have that innate ability to make that decision. They shouldn't be asked to make that at such a young age either.

[edit on 23-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by arius
OK I'm at 35:35 in Jesus Camp. I have only read about the first page of posts but I have to post now in response to the first page of posts. So far it seems pretty benign. Perhaps some of your misunderstandings of Christianity and its teachings is what is causing some of you to misinterpret what is being said.

1) Christian's believe they are in a war not against flesh and blood people, i.e. muslims but against the devil and the forces of darkness. When they say they want to fight and die for Jesus they aren't saying that they will go out and kill people who aren't Christians they are saying that they will die before they renounce their faith. I hope I would do that in that place as well.

2) Harry Potter is a children's book about witches and majic. If Harry Potter had been a real person in Old Testament times then yes the Jews would have put him to death. This was done many times in the Old Testament. However, Christians follow the teachings of Christ. He walked with sinners and ministered to them. He didn't put anyone to death. He was put to death.

3) The tone of the posts seem to say that these people are a cult. The definition of a cult means to be set apart. Christians are to be set apart from the world by trying to live lives that honor God.

Lastly, I was raised in a strong Christian family and understand things about the Christian faith that many of you apparently don't. However, I am not a good example of a Christian so don't go pointing out my failings as anything negative about Christians.

1. Yeah till one interprits it wrong a desides to kill like in 911.

2. Yeah if Harry Potter was real and lived back then they would of believed he was a god or the devil. However, ironically Jesus in a sense was a Harry Potter. Yet in this camp Harry Potter is work of the DEVIL. So the teaching here is these kids shouldn't read Harry Potter. Maybe Jesus and the bible is fantacy a 2000 year old Harry Potter book.

3. If it isn't a cult then why do they have to box themselves into a CAMP and drill young children and making them cry forcing them or else? Intead of having a fun time enjoying camp they jumped right into polluting these young minds with a bunch of crap. Boohoo i'm sorry mommy for stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, lets all pray in tongues and flop around on the floor like a fish. You people are insane.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Well,as I have already asked, is a 5-10 year old intelligent enough to understand this concept, particularly in the manner that this "camp" presented it? I am well aware of the whole "spiritual warfare" bit. I'd also be willing to lay my life down for God, but I am 29 years old and have the ability to make that decision. I am sorry, but a 5-10 year old child doesn't have that innate ability to make that decision. They shouldn't be asked to make that at such a young age either.

[edit on 23-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Speaking for myself ofcourse I understood completely that it was a war of the spirit and not of the flesh. I think people are confusing Islam and Christianity.

So is it better that a child of 5-10 years old choose evil over good since we shouldn't teach them about right versus wrong until they are in their teenage years and plagued by hormones?

Originally posted by sean

1. Yeah till one interprits it wrong a desides to kill like in 911.

2. Yeah if Harry Potter was real and lived back then they would of believed he was a god or the devil. However, ironically Jesus in a sense was a Harry Potter. Yet in this camp Harry Potter is work of the DEVIL. So the teaching here is these kids shouldn't read Harry Potter. Maybe Jesus and the bible is fantacy a 2000 year old Harry Potter book.

3. If it isn't a cult then why do they have to box themselves into a CAMP and drill young children and making them cry forcing them or else? Intead of having a fun time enjoying camp they jumped right into polluting these young minds with a bunch of crap. Boohoo i'm sorry mommy for stealing a cookie from the cookie jar, lets all pray in tongues and flop around on the floor like a fish. You people are insane.

1) Christians didn't fly those planes into the trade towers and kill thousands of people. Check out what the muslims teach their youth. It isn't about a spiritual war between good and evil it is about a literal war between muslims and everybody who isn't muslims.

2) The teaching is that kids shouldn't read Harry Potter. However, my sister is probably the best example of a Christian that I have ever met and she loves the Harry Potter movies and the Lord of the Rings movies. Kids should be taught not to grow up casting spells. That doesn't mean they can't watch movies. Hey they were kinda cool movies. As long as kids are taught not to take them seriously whats the problem? Oh, Jesus never flew around on a broom. But he could have! Ha Ha!

3) They aren't crying about stealing a cookie. They are crying about the thousands if not millions of babies that have been killed by abortion. Christians are against abortion. We believe it is something worth crying about. Those children will grow up and be against abortion they will not grow up and support flying two planes into the dome of the rock.

We dont know what these children will grow up to be.
There are plenty of preacher's daughters dancing in strip clubs of los angeles, Children forced to conform at early ages usually lash out as young adults.

The Problem i have with the Fundamentalist movement, or evengelical, is the belief that " i am right, you are wrong, your going to hell" mindset.
Christ never asked someone if they were Christian, Christians didnt exist. He simply fed the hungry, housed the homeless, cared for the ill and incarcerated. He led by Example.

I would like to ask a question that other fundies seem unable to answer; is the only path to Heaven through Jesus CHrist..?
and if so what happens to the promise God made to his chosen people? What happens to the millions of human Beings that lived before Jesus, or in Africa, or Australia, and never heard of Jesus, God, the Bible ?

i get very contorted and tortured reasoning, but i am interested in the various responses from fundies. They seem unable to grasp the Divine Nature of God.

Originally posted by arius
1) Christians didn't fly those planes into the trade towers and kill thousands of people. Check out what the muslims teach their youth. It isn't about a spiritual war between good and evil it is about a literal war between muslims and everybody who isn't muslims.

While that is indeed the case, and I do not believe that a TRUE Christian would ever commit such an act. I don't operate under the illusion that a Christian is somehow immune to the kind of hatred to do such an act. Christians are human just like anyone else.

Arius, you do, albeit a bit subtley, make a good point. The coming battle between good and evil is not going to be a distinct group against another,but people who are overall good,regardless of religious affiliation, against people who are overall bad,regardless of religious affiliation.

Originally posted by toolman


We dont know what these children will grow up to be.
There are plenty of preacher's daughters dancing in strip clubs of los angeles, Children forced to conform at early ages usually lash out as young adults.

The Problem i have with the Fundamentalist movement, or evengelical, is the belief that " i am right, you are wrong, your going to hell" mindset.
Christ never asked someone if they were Christian, Christians didnt exist. He simply fed the hungry, housed the homeless, cared for the ill and incarcerated. He led by Example.

I would like to ask a question that other fundies seem unable to answer; is the only path to Heaven through Jesus CHrist..?
and if so what happens to the promise God made to his chosen people? What happens to the millions of human Beings that lived before Jesus, or in Africa, or Australia, and never heard of Jesus, God, the Bible ?

i get very contorted and tortured reasoning, but i am interested in the various responses from fundies. They seem unable to grasp the Divine Nature of God.

My response to your question is a question to you. Did not Christ die for the sins of the entire world?

Speakeroftruth,
I will agree with you that Christians are not immune to that kind of hatred. I am simply standing up for the people portrayed in the film. I am not pentecostal but I do see some them doing some of the same things that I saw growing up in another denomination. Pledging allegiance to the Christian flag and to the Bible, I did it and I would do it again. Emotions are part of religious expression as well. My point is this, it might seem weird some of the things that they were doing to people who are not a part of that group. It would be the same watching Buddhist's or Muslims or whatever worship. I just think that some people could miscostrue what they are seeing.

Humans are silly animals. We have the most base of instincts and habits. Two people can read a paragraph and interpret it differently. We should use understanding in how we relate to other religions and people. The way forward is not the sword.

The Bible tells that the final victory in this spiritual war that these people are talking about will be won not with the sword............but.........with the power of the lamb, i.e. peace. How many lambs have you seen fighting? These people know that they can't win, that the final victory over evil must come from God. They fight symbolically to help change the world for the better until Christ returns. Their weapons are the sword of the spirit, the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness. All these things correspond symbolically to how they can be better people to their neighbors, etc.

I'm sure you know this as I have read many of your posts but; if a man seeks the flame of light that is within him then more will be revealed to him, if he does not seek the light that is within him he will remain in darkness. I can be no judge as to how another chooses to seek that light. It would seem that these people are seeking that light. The path is long and the destination is not traversed in a single day.

You have voted arius for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Here is what I had to applaud you for,Arias.

if a man seeks the flame of light that is within him then more will be revealed to him, if he does not seek the light that is within him he will remain in darkness. I can be no judge as to how another chooses to seek that light.

Arias, you just made a very true comment. While one should not judge, being human we are going to form opinions. I am not going to state that thes people were spiritually wrong, but I have to question their tactics.