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Shriners

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posted on Jan, 8 2007 @ 08:37 AM
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I have a question about the Shrine and MOVPER that I was hoping someone could help me out, its on:

belowtopsecret: General Chit-Chat: "Grotto vs. Shrine" (thread 256402)




posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 11:28 PM
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John Salza in his book Masonry Unmasked talks about the Shriners a little bit. He mentions that they swear an oath to "Allah" on the Koran.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
John Salza in his book Masonry Unmasked talks about the Shriners a little bit. He mentions that they swear an oath to "Allah" on the Koran.


Interesting. I (along with the other 87 members receiving the Shrine 'degree') raised my right hand and said "I do" and saw no Quoran even present (although I do own a copy myself)

After that they played childish pranks on us and finally said "welcome to the Shrine, Nobles!"

The Shrine is a "playground" the ritual is based on nonsense and conjecture and the purpose is to support our Childrens Hospitals and have a little good fellowship along the way.

Much like the Catholic Order of Al Hambra...which is quite similar to the Shrine, even down to calling the elected officers the "Divan" (quite an interesting Arabic word, isn't it?)



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Appak


Interesting. I (along with the other 87 members receiving the Shrine 'degree') raised my right hand and said "I do" and saw no Quoran even present (although I do own a copy myself)


That particular myth is taken from the book "Mystic Shrine Illustrated" by, you guessed it, "Anonymous". The ritual described therein bears only a slight resemblance to the authentic Shrine ritual.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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"Allah" is Arabic for the Hebrew word "Yahweh" - the God of Abraham. Arab Christians use the word as most here would use "God" or "Lord" (but not "Jesus").

The Muslim concept of God ("Allah") is different from the Judeo-Christian concept, but the term "Allah" itself does not (or should not) have any negative connotation as some might attribute to it.

I can't comment on the Shriner ceremony since I'm not a Shriner. As an Alhambran, I can comment on that, and our ceremonies and character are said to be similar to the Shrine.



posted on Jan, 13 2007 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
That particular myth is taken from the book "Mystic Shrine Illustrated" by, you guessed it, "Anonymous". The ritual described therein bears only a slight resemblance to the authentic Shrine ritual.


Ah yes, our old friend Ezra Asher Cook he hated fraternal organizations almost as much as some of the fine folks on ATS. The commentaries in his various expose's are hilarious. Slanderous hatred...all in the name of Christ.



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 10:50 PM
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In response to beacons question:


YES Bill Schnoebelen in his videos has his certificates to his rosi cross ties and scottish rite ties, also shows all his certificates upon completion of his 33 degrees.


Everybody take a look for yourselves.


video.google.com...:en-US
fficial&sa=N&tab=wv



posted on Jan, 17 2007 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by Zhenyghi
"Allah" is Arabic for the Hebrew word "Yahweh" - the God of Abraham. Arab Christians use the word as most here would use "God" or "Lord" (but not "Jesus").




Yahweh/Javhe is different than Yehowah/Jehovah.

Explained here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Yehovah, AElohim, Allah, Alim, Elohim, Alaha, etc. are names for the Divinity.

Yahveh is a demon.



Also, from what I've learned, Shriners do indeed study the Qur'an:

www.abovetopsecret.com...






Regards




[edit on 17-1-2007 by Tamahu]



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
Also, from what I've learned, Shriners do indeed study the Qur'an:


LOL! Sorry to disagree Tamahu, Shriners are the "fun" branch of Freemasonry. "Fun" as in "silliness" and childish pranks. The only serious side of Shrinedom is supporting our Orthopaedic Hospitals.

Outside of that there's no philosopy, etc. taught in the Shrine. It's more along the lines of "who's buying the next round of Camel's milk?" (beer)

Trust me. ...been one a LONG time.



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by Appak
LOL! Sorry to disagree Tamahu, Shriners are the "fun" branch of Freemasonry. "Fun" as in "silliness" and childish pranks. The only serious side of Shrinedom is supporting our Orthopaedic Hospitals.

Outside of that there's no philosopy, etc. taught in the Shrine. It's more along the lines of "who's buying the next round of Camel's milk?" (beer)

Trust me. ...been one a LONG time.




Perhaps it has degenerated into that aspect only.

But the Shriner degree is based on Ancient symbolism.


Not that there's anything wrong with having fun; but the meaning of the symbolism should not be kept somewhere in the background.

Well it is actually all right there, for those that hath eyes to see and hath ears to hear.


Just start by studying the Moorish Science Temple thread I've quoted.







Regards



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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Here's some interesting info:


MOOR45



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
Perhaps it has degenerated into that aspect only.
But the Shriner degree is based on Ancient symbolism.


Again, sorry to disagree unless you've taken a "degree" that I haven't, the initiation into the Shrine (which Shriners do not call a "degree" but a "ceremonial") is based on nonsense and conjecture. There's nothing truly serious or symbolic about it at all. Oh, we mention pyramids, crescents, and the like, but no real symbolism is connected to them except that they sort of "set the mood" for the traditions of the Shrine.

Shriners draw their membership from Masons, true enough. BUT the Shrine is NOT (that bears repeating) is NOT a "Masonic" body and confers no "Masonic" (or other) "Degree"

It's all fun, nothing more. No "studying" required by anyone and likely no "studying" done by ANYONE regarding the Shrine.

There are certainly some befezzed groups out there who ARE meant to be taken seriously, but the Shriners...we're there for the fun and to support our Hospitals.

Want to study symbolism and deep-meaning in Masonry...it's in the Scottish Rite. NOT the Shrine.


Well it is actually all right there, for those that hath eyes to see and hath ears to hear.


While that certainly sounds deep and somewhat impressive, I myself haveth eyes and ears and I see-eth childishness and heareth malarky in and about the Shrine Center, yea the very Temple itself.


Just start by studying the Moorish Science Temple thread I've quoted.


You're confusing two entirely different and unconnected organizations.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the Moorish Science Temple but they have NO CONNECTION with the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. NONE. ZILCH. NADA.

Now THEY may have some deep symbolism and I'm sure they DO study the Quoran...but Shriners (who are ALL Masons) do not. (At least not "as Shriners") Some individual members may and probably DO study it, but it's not a part of Shrinedom.

www.shrinershq.org...

[edit for spelling]


[edit on 18-1-2007 by Appak]



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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The Shriners and Moorish Science Temple are not synonymous, I agree.

But the symbolism is all related.

It is no accident that they're related.

Why is(or was) it necessary to complete the 32 Degree of the Scottish Rite in order to join the Shrine, if it is "only for fun"?


See this:

www.geocities.com...


Not to say I agree with everything in it...



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 07:47 PM
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Personally I am not a fan of the "Shriners". This group allows abuse of animals and this should be stopped.
www.circuses.com...

from page:
Cruelty Under the Shriners Big Top
Shrine Circuses have deplorable records of cruelty to animals, serious violations of the federal Animal Welfare Act, and animal attacks resulting in injury and even death. Elephants used by Shriners have rampaged, killing trainers and injuring children. Although many successful charitable organizations never use circus fundraisers, about 150 of Shrine's 191 temples host annual circuses. These circuses raise funds for the temples' administrative costs, not for the Shriners children's hospitals.

Animals in circuses are beaten to make them perform tricks on command. If they do not perform properly, they are beaten some more. In cases where they snap and either run amok or attack someone, they are beaten again. After one recent incident, a whistleblower notified PETA that a gang of trainers armed with bullhooks, electric prods, and pipes were awaiting an elephant who stomped her trainer to death as she was unloaded from the transport trailer in an obscure location.

Circuses and animal exhibitors performing for Shriners have been cited and fined by the U.S. Department of Agriculture for failing to provide veterinary care, failure to provide minimum space, inadequate and unsafe enclosures, mishandling animals, endangering animals and the public, failure to provide shelter from inclement weather, failure to provide exercise, and failure to provide nutritious food and clean drinking water.

In 2004, Shrine Circus elephant supplier Hawthorn Corporation admitted to 19 violations of the federal Animal Welfare Act and paid a $200,000 fine. Hawthorn had been charged with using physical abuse, causing harm and discomfort, failing to provide veterinary care, and unsafe public contact.

In 2001, a parent chaperoning schoolchildren to the Medinah Shrine Circus in Chicago reported that children were traumatized when they saw a trainer beating an elephant. She wrote to the local newspaper, "When the elephants were brought behind the curtain, the trainer began verbally abusing and hitting the elephant. We watched in horror as he swung a stick with all his force and struck the elephant in the back of the leg. This must have hurt because the elephant let out a scream that could be heard throughout the UIC Pavilion."


Sorry i just had the urge to post that....



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
The Shriners and Moorish Science Temple are not synonymous, I agree.

But the symbolism is all related.

It is no accident that they're related.


No, it isn't because the founders of the Shrine (Billy Florence, an Actor and Walter Fleming, a medical doctor) utilized some Arabic symbols when they INVENTED the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine.

Certainly they share some symbols. The circle within the triangle is sometimes used in the Royal Arch Degree and it's the symbol of Alcoholics Anonymous. But there's no connection except that the symbols are the same.

I've seen the Cross within the Crown used in a local Methodist Church AND it's the symbol of the Masonic Templars. But there's no connection between the two.

It, like the above, is no accident, they simply chose the same symbols for their completely unconnected groups.


Why is(or was) it necessary to complete the 32 Degree of the Scottish Rite in order to join the Shrine, if it is "only for fun"?


Because that's what the founders WANTED. It had nothing to do with having greater knowledge. And actually the original requirement was that one be at least a 32nd Degree member of the Scottish Rite OR a Knight Templar of the York Rite. I was both when I joined, as are numerous Shriners.

Today one must only be a Third Degree member (Master Mason).

Believe me there are PLENTY of Third Degree (Master) Masons who know PLENTY more than a LOT of the members of the York or Scottish Rite.


See this:
www.geocities.com...
Not to say I agree with everything in it...


Nor would I. I would, however recommend an actual book or two (the internet is fine, but is lacking in many ways)

See: "A Short History of the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine" available from the HQ in Tampa, FL

As far as the "fun" aspect, it has this to say:

"In 1870...many Masons made it a point to lunch at Knickerbocker Cottage, a restaurant at 426 Sixth Avenue (Manhattan). At a special table on the second floor, a particularly jovial group of men used to meet regularly. The Masons who gathered at this table were noted for their good humor and wit. The often discussed the idea of a new fraternity for Masons in which fun and fellowship would be stressed more than ritual."

In short, they liked to have a few cocktails, tell a few jokes and relax. That's what we still do. Oh, some of us ride silly little go-carts and make fools of ourselves in parades, too. People love that. Shrine clowns visit sick children in hospitals.

"Parade to Glory: The Story of the Shriners and their Caravan to Destiny" by Orville Findley Rush is also good and can be found at used book-sellers websites.

But again, there may be some symbols that the Shriners borrowed to make it look authentic, there's nothing "Ancient" "Arabic" or "Mystic" about the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. . . but the things our hospitals do for crippled and burned children are nothing short of "Noble"



[edit on 18-1-2007 by Appak]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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Well I think we can agree to disagree about the A.A.O.N.M.S. being "just for fun".


Did you read that article I just posted; and also, that quote from the Supreme Wisdom Lessons posted in the Moorish Science Temple ATS thread?


Perhaps I'll come back with more research, as there are a few books(not internet) on the subject I'd like to look into.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:53 PM
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[edit on 19-1-2007 by Appak]



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 07:32 PM
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posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
Appak

This is interesting:
Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine


Yep. And about as accurate as many Masons (and Masonic writers) who claim that Freemasonry ACTUALLY ORIGINATED at the building of King Solomon's Temple. Hell, some even claim 'ol King Sol himself was the First Grand Master. SOME say Adam was. Where does it stop?

Trying to give a Masonic degree or rite "time immemorial" status is nothing new Tamahu. If you want to believe the Shrine is actually "Ancient" and "Arabic" and that it existed (in ANY form) before it was founded in the 1870's by an actor and a doctor, suit yourself.

Admittedly though, I'll be disappointed as most of your posts seem to indicate that you tend to be interested in fact and not fairy tale.


[edit on 7-2-2007 by Appak]



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 09:09 PM
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It may be worth checking out though.

Does anyone know anything about this work, or it's author?


Masonic Light?



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