[edit on 11-12-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by 11Bravo
He is clearly speaking figurativly.

No, he was speaking literally, from first-hand experience.

Odd how all the vietnam vets that apparently got spit on were
Right Wingers. Is that all that served in Vietnam? Right wingers?

No, it's just that the liberals that did serve, like John Kerry, never marched in Veterans Day parades. Instead, Kerry threw his medals - or was it his ribbons? - over the wall.

The story makes no sense, but you can believe it if you want.
Like I asked earlier, who was doing all this spitting?

Asking silly questions designed to belittle the veterans doesn't say much for you.

Where are the police reports? Why didnt alteast one of the spit upon soldiers beat the living hell out of the hippie that spit on them?

How did you know that there were no police reports? How do you know that some libs didn't get their heads whacked by a vet? Prove it.

My Grandfather, God rest his soul, was a WWII Vet. He told me the soldiers spit on story was a lie.
MY Father, a Korean Vet, (the forgotten war) told me the soldiers spit on story was a lie.
My experience, as a Gulf war vet, tells me that the soldiers spit on story is a lie.

All hearsay, but now I see where you get your views from.

Nobody should give a hoot what her damn motivations were/are. It doesn't matter if she did it cause she's a nut who hates only the people at fort drum for no reason justifiable enough to spit on someone, most likely not associated with whatever "incedent's" may or may not have spurred her, nor because he was a soldier and responsible for 'war crimes' that she never witnessed.

She commited a crime. Period. Plain and simple. No conspiracy. Her crime was extra heinous and insensative because she spat on someone sworn to protect HER. Really who the hell is she to be so self rightious to be able to spit on anybody. Infact I bet part of what pissed of the people of sarycuse so much was the fact that she is probably not fit to spit on a slug.-Last time everybody checked SHE's the scumbag and no doubt any psyciatrist would classify her as being cleary pathalogical.-So please stop apolagizing for her behavior.

Besides for all we know this man may have just gotten back from combat and has been mentally scared for life with the horrors of war. It's pretty damn insensative to spit on someone like that. It's like spitting on a firefighter-they just busted their ass trying to save you and your stupid property and instead of offering them support you spit on them? Pretty scummy.

She deserves any public ridicule that comes with being a COMPLETE and TOTAL JACKASS. Who spits on anybody who has a strong chance of having just suffered greatly? Who condones this?

Yes. She does deserve her address being anounced publicly, and her ridicule. In fact it's the right, just thing to do. See we're a species of animal and like all other species of animal, if a member of the group is doing all they can wether they're aware of it or not, to comprimise the safety of their species then they are ostrisized, and culled out for they do no service to the species and infact their agenda is counter productive to the species. In fact, most species will attempt to kill this individuel. So, she is lucky indeed that she is a member of the human species, which usually don't go to the extream of killing these individuels. Instead we lock them in jail.

Last time I checked when you do something moraly heinous like molest kids, or go around spraying your bodily fluids on random people you go on public record for life. And, you also end up being on COPS or Police Videos: Worlds Biggest Jackass's Caught on Tape. She's lucky it was a soldier she spat on and not a cop, who would have surely tasered her pronto. (which she would have deserved) She's lucky infact that the only physical harm that came to her was the red marks from the arresting officers handcuffs. This Nut got off lucky.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR

Yes. She does deserve her address being anounced publicly, and her ridicule. In fact it's the right, just thing to do. See we're a species of animal and like all other species of animal..

So, because you read an article on the net you're now seemingly willing to go all 'animal' on a person you never heard of before, who, for all you don't know might have had slightly different reasons than those mentioned here or in the media.

what if they got the name or adress wrong? what if the whole story is fabricated? i'm only half joking, if you have nothing to verify the story, chances are acting on it (or even emotionally working up for a future case appearing in your vicinity) is not quite defensible. remember what certain regimes told about minorities and dissenters?

What would you say if someone went 'all animal' on you for what you felt was right, like lashing out on anyone who was unfortunate enough to be at the wrong media-supplied address at the wrong time?

just food for thought.

PS: 11Bravo, if veterans were actually spat on uring and after vietnam - or not - does not make much of a difference, it takes no more than a few grand and some scum who execute weird orders to establish any outlandish myth as fact.

...imagine how easy it is to torch a dozen cars each night and blame it on pretty much anyone. i'm not saying that's what's happening, but the ONLY chance to reliably catch the real perpetrators is to nail them on the spot... anything else opens the door for manipulation...


[edit on 11-12-2006 by Long Lance]

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Last time I checked when you do something moraly heinous like molest kids, or go around spraying your bodily fluids on random people you go on public record for life. And, you also end up being on COPS or Police Videos: Worlds Biggest Jackass's Caught on Tape. She's lucky it was a soldier she spat on and not a cop, who would have surely tasered her pronto. (which she would have deserved) She's lucky infact that the only physical harm that came to her was the red marks from the arresting officers handcuffs. This Nut got off lucky.

If it had been a cop as you suggest, this thread would have taken an entirely different tack. The cop would have been accused of abuse and overreacting, and the rise of the American Police State would be said to be imminent.

Originally posted by rdang

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by jsobecky

This is sad. The same things happened to our soldiers when they returned from Viet Nam.

Care to back that up with some facts?
From my little bit of research no returning vietnam soldiers were spit upon.
If you could give me a name or a place or anything else to go on I MIGHT believe you.
Its a classic example of an urbal legend used to vilify the anti-war movement.
Im not saying your Syracuse story didnt happen, that remains to be seen, but the Vietnam soldiers story is just that, a story.

Here go the Kerry type liberals defending this pos's actions.

Well it did happen,and more than once.But as usual liberal types will deny the truth.Were you even born during Vietnam?Just because you can't find a newspaper story does not make it an "urban legend" I do remember,soldiers being hit with eggs,spit on,changing out of their uniform on the plane to avoid the crowds of righteous protesters waiting for them at the airports. Your smug comment "that remains to be seen" like it is another "urban legend" shows you will never believe,what more proof do you want? or does it have to happen right in front of you??

I don't know who warned this man.. but what the hell is wrong with that post????? DISGUSTING display of politically motivated Moderatores if you ask me.

Liberals, hippys, the self righteous left.. they did spit on soldiers .. I have heard many stories from Vietnam men who came back to be treated like dirt. My own father had to go to San Fransico when he got back, ended up pulling a gun in the middle of the street with a few friends because a crowd of hippies calling them baby killers threatend them with physical violence. Then I have an uncle, sprayed with agent orenge and gone through hell, government refuses to acknowledge it, can't get a job because of where he was.. had to lie on his college aplication and said he never went to Vietnam because of the ignorant left. Myth? Please, ask any vietnam vet. S'pose I'll get warned now as well mods?

Originally posted by Rockpuck


I don't know who warned this man.. but what the hell is wrong with that post????? DISGUSTING display of politically motivated Moderatores if you ask me.

Liberals, hippys, the self righteous left.. they did spit on soldiers .. I have heard many stories from Vietnam men who came back to be treated like dirt. My own father had to go to San Fransico when he got back, ended up pulling a gun in the middle of the street with a few friends because a crowd of hippies calling them baby killers threatend them with physical violence. Then I have an uncle, sprayed with agent orenge and gone through hell, government refuses to acknowledge it, can't get a job because of where he was.. had to lie on his college aplication and said he never went to Vietnam because of the ignorant left. Myth? Please, ask any vietnam vet. S'pose I'll get warned now as well mods?

I have also been warned from this thread, you can click on my warning to see the post that did it. I also feel that the warning was politically motivated.

Long,

How on earth have you deduced that I am willing to go all 'animal' on this scummy woman. Yes, anybody who spits on other people for any reason are scummy in my definition. Attacking me is not only a bad debate method but doesn't do anything to further your side of the argument, unless you are arguing in kids court where that strategy might work.

What I said is that humans ARE animals AND as animals we do what ALL animals do, although in a more sophisticated way. It basic survival wireing. If a member of your group is comprimising the safety or wellbeing of the population then they are culled out from the crowd as a way to slow or stop their destructive behavior wether they are intending to be destructive or not. In fact a lot of our laws are built apon this simple principle. Speeders get tickets, cause speeding is dangerous for the general population to engage in, even if they themselves are comfortable going 120 MPH other drivers might panic and do something stupid like make a lane change into the car, and get everybody hurt. So we punish speeding. More offensive stuff like whipping your shlong out in public is punished and delt with by generating laws that not only punish the offender and curb the behavior in general. Society will operate on the same mindset. and when someone is going against the grain they will in general be called out for it. The severity of the ostisizing depends on the moral divergence from the norm and wether or not a crime was commited.

If you don't like the war going on in Iraq (I personally don't like the war there) then do what a lot of people do with out getting themselves arrested and that is be civil about how you broach the topic in public forums. (ie. a senator might try and get investigations going and have more public talk about the war, or stage peaceful demonstrations) Jackass's spit on people and take the disagreement to the physical level. Don't apologize for these people who try to further their cause through violence.

If the idea is a good one then people can eventually be made to listen by the merits of the argument alone. Being a crazy person and spitting on strangers will get you lumped into the 'lets ostrisize this crazy nut catagory.' Thats just life. It's a system that works and not just for people. All animals recognise it and use it, we are no different.

Why would you automatically think that the story was a hoax. What are the goals of the hoaxers. To get a the nice little lady who 'never' spat on a soldier? What about the police report? what about the witnesses at the airport. What about the sarycuse newspaper? Thier source of info was the police report. It's possible that they made a typo and that they had the wrong house address. But if they are copying it from the police log then there is a good chance that the info is accurate. Although people do make mistakes and typos do occure.

Secondly, why would you think that the 'people' are going to lynch this woman or are premeditating to hurt her. And why would you think that I am preparing to work myself up to hurt other people who may spit on soldiers from my local area. Again thats assuming a whole lot, and it's pretty paranoid in thought.

Whats simpler of an explanation.
1. A giant conspiracy, typos in the newspaper, and a rightious woman who 'should' be allowed to spit on people without consequence, but the 'people' are supressing it.

OR 2. Some Piece of S*** spit on someone. A soldier to make it even worse. It pissed off people with a decent concious when they found out about it after it was mentioned in the local newspaper. The newspaper read the public police report copied down the information with fidelity, and puplished the paper.

Occams Razor my friend. Occams Razor.

I hate to break it to ya'll gang, this isn't a neo-Con website. It's a site for ALL people but it seems like you guys are throwing around names and labels at will. Why not address the topic and not what you percieve?

I hope that addresses your issue. BTW, if anyone cares to throw any names my way because I'm Canadian(like "socialist") I'll let you know that my family has served for generations, my son will be next, going into the Engineers in 2 years, so DON'T!

I would recommend lightening up though.

Edit to add: If anyone feels like pursueing this futher, I have 180 vacant spots in my u2u's. Feel free to use that avenue and let this topic continue.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by intrepid]

People like that,who spit in the faces of our soldiers, should be damn proud that they live in a country where they are able to do that without being shot!! The lady should be ashamed of herself.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Care to back that up with some facts?
From my little bit of research no returning vietnam soldiers were spit upon.
If you could give me a name or a place or anything else to go on I MIGHT believe you.
Its a classic example of an urban legend used to vilify the anti-war movement.

Wrong. I wasn't even alive then, but I can tell you stories my grandfather used to tell me about this very thing happening to him upon his return. Also things were thrown at him. Imagine how it must feel to do your job (regardless of your sentiments on Vietnam, the soldiers were following their orders), and then come back home to recieve a nice disease from someone's mouth because they spat upon you.

This woman should have been charged, of course, as it is assault (or is here) to spit on someone. I just hope she gets treatment in accordance with how others have recieved punishment for non-soldiers. Just because she politicized her assault, does not mean she should be treated differently in the eyes of the court.

Sorry I didn't read through this whole thread yet, but I wanted to add my 2 cents and comment on this statement.

I would like to point out an error on my part Earlier I had stated My father was spit on in California, after talking with him I found out that that is untrue. He was spit at in California, apparently the spit fell short at his feet. I then went on to ask him if indeed he had been spit upon. He then went on to inform me that while working guard duty in his uniform in Washington D.C. protesters had spit at him again, this time he was struck by the spit. I then asked him what he did after being spat on, he said he couldn't do anything because he was in formation and had to hold ranks. Apparently the crowd was quite large that day. Don't ask for proof or a link because I offer none take it or leave it.

Now that i have corrected myself i would like to point out some of the sentiment in regards to the press letting out this womans address. It seems that some feel of you guys and gals feel that the release of her address shows how bad it has become here in America, I disagree. I feel that the giving of her address shows how bad it has gotten in the American Press which i believe is pretty bad. A better indication of the American people i believe is in the observation of whether anything happens to this woman. I personally believe that no violence will come of this.

Look at it this way. You just spent 6 months in some hell hole swamp with little angry yellow people that weigh 95 lbs shooting at you from every direction at all times with no relent. You got leeches all over your legs becuase the jungle is nasty.. You've spent hours cleaning your buddy's bone fragments and guts and brain chunks off half your gear and skin. You've had to kill people in self defense from close up, frequently having to look them in the eye as you do it. You get emotionally broken on a daily basis. sleep...yeah right...not for the last 6 months. You're jumpy at everything. Seen people eat some really nasty concoctions, you yourself may have even had to eat pan fried roached or something nasty. Kids are plotting to kill you, and not in a nice way either. Every puddle of water festers disease. And any second or smile from a friend could be your last.

Now you are finally going HOME to your COUNTRY to see your FAMILY and hopefully make the nightmares and post traumatic stress a little easier to manage.

THe second you step foot into the ground of the place you grew up in, that raised you, and some wacko who probably understands very little in the big perspective hocks a loogie onto your arm as you pass by and calls you a piece of S***. You've been through and called worse and are VERY tired. Do you think that person wants to make thier stay one giant lets get the police involved, go to the newspaper, and start some lawsuit.

Probably not. You are a man and you will most likely just want to get home take a shower and eat some of your wifes or moms cooking, and sleep in your own bed. and pray to god that you'll actually be able to sleep for just one night without waking up sobing with some visceral image running through your head.

These soldiers were real men and they went on to live thier lives not call the cops and 'document' getting spit on so that ungrateful people 35 years later will believe that someone spit on you once for doing your job, which you would be thrown in jail for with out repreave if you hadn't.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR

THe second you step foot into the ground of the place you grew up in, that raised you, and some wacko who probably understands very little in the big perspective hocks a loogie onto your arm as you pass by and calls you a piece of S***.

Here in lies the first problem I have with the myth.
Where exactly where these service men being flown to that had crowds of 'liberal hippies' standing in a close enough proximity to spit on soldiers?
Think about it for a second.
IF this was occuring, why didnt the military restrict civilians from gathering on that tarmack or, better yet, why didnt the military have the returning vets plane set down at a secure airbase?
IF you want to tell me that it was an open gathering for all members of the community to greet the returning soldiers, and the hippies were mixed in the crowd and did their spitting from there, I would have to ask why not one family member of a Vet beat the hell out of a hippie when they began spitting? Wouldn't riots ensue if you saw somebody spit on your loved one that had just returned from overseas duty?
Why are there no records of any fights, or riots, or police action of any sort?
Were the police on the side of the 'liberal hippies'?
Where are the pictures? Wouldnt the 'liberal media' be all over this?
Wouldnt they want pictures and stories to boost thier sales and push thier 'anti-war' agenda? If they couldn't get pictures wouldn't they atleast write some articles on it?
IF no documents or articles can be found then one must ask; How did this myth get started and circulated? Where is the first report of it? Was it all spread by word of mouth alone?

These soldiers were real men and they went on to live thier lives not call the cops and 'document' getting spit on so that ungrateful people 35 years later will believe that someone spit on you once for doing your job, which you would be thrown in jail for with out repreave if you hadn't.

IM not sure if you are implying somehow that I am ungrateful, but as a third generation United States Army Infantry soldier I assure you that just because I am skeptical of something does not mean 'ungrateful'.
What am I suppose to be grateful for any way? What did the Vietnam Vets do that my Grandpa didnt do? Or my Father? Or me?

How am I suppose to show Im grateful? By accepting a story as fact, even tho if flies in the face of logic, even tho there is nothing more then hear-say to back it up?
If I accepted the 'spit on' story, that would make me grateful?
Then what? I could make some ignorant comment about 'liberal hippies' ruining the nation? I could equate anyone who is anti-war with spitting hippies? I could empathize with the Vietnam vets if only I accepted this story?

I say it again...my Father raised me to believe none of what I hear and HALF of what I see.
So far all I have done is HEARD stories, but I have SEEN no evidence to back these stories.

The spitting didn't occure when they fist step foot on the ground, it couldn't have as you have pointed out that they couldnt get close to the plane. Alot of spitting happened when soldiers were by themselves going home using a civilian airport. Or during large protests where an unfortunate soldier was unlucky to be nearby dressed in his uniform. I have also read reports of WWII veterans spitting on vietnan vets when they tried to join the VFW, I don't know anyone who has experienced that though.

Originally posted by JackJuice
The spitting didn't occure when they fist step foot on the ground, it couldn't have as you have pointed out that they couldnt get close to the plane. Alot of spitting happened when soldiers were by themselves going home using a civilian airport. Or during large protests where an unfortunate soldier was unlucky to be nearby dressed in his uniform. I have also read reports of WWII veterans spitting on vietnan vets when they tried to join the VFW, I don't know anyone who has experienced that though.

Well now, thank you for your answer Jack.

The OP made the statement that the spitting ...

happened to our soldiers when they returned from Viet Nam

and it was backed by claims like

my father-in-law was spit on when he arrived in California

and supported with statements like

(my beliefs) in no way change what happened to those soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen when they returned

and

my grandfather used to tell me about this very thing happening to him upon his return

Which spreads the MYTH that there were crowds of people waiting at the airport to spit on dang near ALL returning vets.

If you can admit that it didnt happen when they first set foot on U.S. soil, because of the impossibility of being close enough to actually spit on people, then the next question you should ask is

'Do any other aspects of this story not make sense?'

None of it makes sense to me, and when I ask for evidence and receive nothing but hear-say, it reaffirms my belief that it is an urban myth.

It is just "hearsay" and like i said before, the fact that Uncle Joe said...isnt going to cut it. I'd like to see real evidence or first hand accounts of people literaly being spit on.
As i said, after mingling with Marines for years, i've never heard of an account of this in the first person.

I have heard of spitting accounts of navy men coming right off the boat and a few marines. Some ports are easier to access but again I have not heard of this first hand. but Again i feel i must reassert that i have heard first hand reports of spitting elseware on US soldiers after a tour from vietnam.

Look all I'm saying is that soldiers coming back from vietnam probably had enough to worry about. Getting spit on although hurtful to their feelings probably wasn't enough to get them running of to the police. So there is a good chance that that is why there are little to no substanciated reports about this.

ANd yeah, If a soldier says he got spit on, at least give him the benefit of the doubt, since he did go and fight for his country and your freedom. You can say that vietnam never bought you any freedom and it would be true. But he's still a soldier, and it's ungrateful to dismis their words so easily. At least hear them out or be respectful to them when you disagree with them over wether or not they got spit on.