Originally posted by jsobecky

So could you, marg, so I don't really know what you are trying to defend here. Esp. when you're always so proud of your husband's service to his country.

Very simple, JS, something that you have not seen . . .

How this story has brought a part of human nature that brings only the negative part of one and each of us.

While some are very clear on the dislike of the woman in question . . . for her actions. . . if this has been done on a none military . . . would it have made it into the news and on this thread? JS.

Now what it bothers me and I believe it should raise concerns on others isThis type of sentiment when somebody post about having some type of violent action . . . against the woman in question. . . that. . . comes to mind.

That I find it very wrong and troublesome, Don't you JS? But I also find wrong her actions, but by no means I will advocate for her demise or corporal punishment.

What are we going to end up doing next? start killing each other and calling for the demise of other American citizens because we disagree?

Now going back to the topic in question

I will like to have more information on the incident, because I don't know about you JS . . . but is sounds kind of weird that she before spiting on the soldier in question. . . .

Why did she walk to the soldier and asked him if he was from Fort Drum and them spit on him .

What is so special about been from that particular place?

Does anybody knows, for what I see is something that trouble the woman about that particular place and perhaps She could very well be a nut case.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
This thread brings up an interesting issue of how much personal responsibility soldiers should take for the blunders of the US government. I am not saying that people should spit on soldiers or that every US soldier has murdered or otherwise directly harmed innocent Iraqis, but we should question whether they are truly blameless. On one hand, many soldiers do not approve of the USA's blunders in Iraq, so they should not be personally blamed for incidents like Abu graib or the killings in Haditha. Many are serving in Iraq against their will and would not serve if they had the option. On the other hand, "just following orders" is not a valid excuse.

Your thoughts?

Well, since the soldiers usually come from poor social classes, often to protect those of your ilk and are then betrayed by the very people they are sent to protect, no they arent blameless. They shouldnt be so willing to give their lives for a group of people who would not fight for their country even were it absolutely necessary.

You make some good points, although you would be hard pressed to find someone who is critical of the US military or its personnel when it fights wars that are absolutely necessary. It is a shame though, that people are enlisting because going to Iraq is the most lucrative option in their life. We can point fingers at big corporations for creating this situation by outsourcing good jobs and encouraging BS wars, but ultimately we support these corporations. We drive around in oversized SUV's, buy cheap foreign goods rather than shell out a little extra for goods that are made in America, and vote for politicians that allow it all.

Soldiers as a group can be blameworthy in that they do not do enough to speak up. Not enough soldiers are criticizing the president for putting their lives at risk so Halliburton can have a boondoggle. Too many soldiers and their families are supportive of the administration. Perhaps it is because it is difficult to come to the realization that your life or the life of someone important to you means less to the political leaders you admire than someone's stock portfolio. People need to wake up and make this realization. Soldiers are not bad people because George Bush and company would rather see them killed than for Halliburton to actually make a profit by going out and competing in the private sector free market, George Bush and company are the bad people. Soldiers have to realize this and speak up.

Originally posted by JackJuice

Your dispicable, My father came home after vietnam and landed in california only to be spit on by a long haired hippy.

So your dad was the soldier spit upon?
There are no public records of this ever happening.
YOu dont have one shred of evidence to back up your claim.
Atleast with this Syracuse story we have a link.
Dont you think if it had happend to the vietnam vets you could produce alteast one link to one article about actual vietnam vets getting spit upon?

Until you can give me a link it will remain an urban legend.

Im amazed that you folks will jump to name call and label but not stop for one second to research your facts.
The Vietnam Vets spit upon story is an URBAN LEGEND.
Prove otherwise or dont state it as fact.

She deserves jail time, imo.

Jail time for an ignoramus oinc oinc. She's piggish, small minded and should be put out of her mysery.

Originally posted by rdang



Here go the Kerry type liberals defending this pos's actions.

Well it did happen,and more than once.But as usual liberal types....

Here go the ignorant name calling fools defending an urban legend that cannot be substantiated with one shred of evidence.
IT DID HAPPEN is good enough for them. No there are no pictures, no there is no video, no there are no news articles, but it DID happen.
Come on, give me one link to ANY information about Vietnam vets getting spit upon.
I will gladly read whatever you have to offer, and if it is verifiable I will appologize to you for saying its an urban legend.

I've met quite a few VietNam vets, and

not one was ever spat on before. That's BS. This woman is an isolated incident- a pig.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I've met quite a few VietNam vets, and

not one was ever spat on before. That's BS. This woman is an isolated incident- a pig.

My sentiments exactly.
I know quite a few Vietnam Vets myself, being a member of the local VFW, and none of them were ever spit on.

I know ATS has rules about posting known falsehoods, what are the rules about presenting urban myths as fact?

Originally posted by dgtempe
I've met quite a few VietNam vets, and

not one was ever spat on before. That's BS. This woman is an isolated incident- a pig.

Not true, my father-in-law was spit on when he arrived in California for a stop on his way home to Texas from Vietnam in 1970. I find it sad how easily some people will classify something they didn't witness as BS. Maybe the Iranian president was right when he said the Holocaust didn't happen then. Because he certainly didn't witness it. But this woman is definately a pig. Freedom of expression only covers what doesn't physically effect another person. Spitting on someone is not free speech. In some places, it is assault. She can have whatever political view she wants to, but her actions only invalidate her views in my opinion. And dg, shame on you for dismissing what has happened to some Vietnam Vets as BS, only because those you know were not spit upon. Until you have met every single one, you cannot say what has happened to all.

Uniform or not, I probably would of bitch-slapped her or punched her out for spitting on me. It's too bad that matters of personal honor aren't solved on the lowest possible level the way they used to be solved. The spitting woman obviously felt so insulted by the presence of a uniformed soldier in her face that she forgot that he to was a thinking and feeling human being.
She's possibly a left fundamentalist who thinks that anyone who disagrees with her 'peaceful' agenda is a baby-killing war monger. She maybe suffering from mental disease because what she did was fairly risky to her continued good physical health. She did spit on a soldier who has probably been trained to kill with his bare hands. Crazy people do stupid things like that and expect the world to cheer them on for doing it.

She also may have done it for the media attention it would gain her. As my old 1st Sgt used to say you can't fix crazy or stupid.

The spitting woman obviously felt so insulted by the presence of a uniformed soldier in her face that she forgot that he to was a thinking and feeling human being.

I thought the article said they were out of uniform?

Regardless, what she did was stupid and wrong. In some places, as has been said, it's considered a form of assault.

I've been spit on for just doing my job, so I have a lot of sympathy for the soldiers. It sucks, but they'll get over it. Meanwhile, this lady will have her fifteen minutes of infamy, and then go back to taking care of her cats, or whatever.

no, i commend the soldier for his restraint, but this type of thing isnt isolated anymore. anyone remember the thread about the soldier up in wash state that got attacked (allegedly?)

here in monterey a small group of soldiers were downtown at the bar one night and got harrassed, they dealt with it and kept enjoying their night. as their group dwindled to two one of them went to the latrine and the last one standing alone in the bar the group came back and beat on him, out of no where comes a baseball bat. kid ended up in ICU for several days.

the sad part is that if he had really injured one of them defending himself someone woulda tried to press charges against him because he's "trained" or some such BS.

ive been out for a couple years but my wife is in...someone assaults her and watch how fast my walking stick becomes a quarter staff and i dont care how long they wanna try to lock me up. 12 years sworn to defend these morons but ive sworn my life to my wife and ill be damned if someones gonna get to her for doing what she feels is right.

but thats just me.

oh, and while i do think it was a bad idea to put her address in the article, if her name was there its a short flip to the phone book to find her if someone was so inclined...but ill think its really sad if anyone did anything to this woman. she has a right to express herself, but spitting one somene is technically assault. if she had spit on an FBI agent or cop she'd have gotten charged with a felony...why should a soldier be any different?

or hell a firefighter, teacher, avg joe.

just my opinion, take it or leave it

Originally posted by marg6043
Giving away her address violating her privacy means nothing to any of you for what I see.

I have absolutely no problem with her address being given out. It is her own fault that she called attention to herself. Whatever happens ... she planted the seeds HERSELF.

BTW - giving out an address publically isn't a 'violation of her privacy'.

another BTW - SHE violated HIS right to not be harrassed and assaulted. SHE violated his right not to be spat upon.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
hope people show up at her house wearing belaclavas (so they don't get in trouble)and spit in her face at random times and for no reason.

Think she'd learn her lesson? She sounds like a complete idiot. I doubt that she'd learn, but I think it couldn't hurt for her to get a taste of her own medicine. What a freak'n moron she is.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
how much personal responsibility soldiers should take for the blunders of the US government. I am not saying that people should spit on soldiers or that every US soldier has murdered or otherwise directly harmed innocent Iraqis, but we should question whether they are truly blameless.

How about how much CREDIT should the soldiers be getting for having LIBERATED Iraq from Saddam, his death squads, government sponsored mass murder, government sponsored mass rape, etc etc. How much CREDIT should the souldiers be getting for VOLUNTEERING to put their lives on the line to defend America and Americans? How much CREDIT should they be given for being SELFLESS and giving up a good chunck of their personal lives for the greater good?

It's a matter of CREDIT .. not blame.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I've met quite a few VietNam vets, and not one was ever spat on before. That's BS.

When I was in the Army I WORKED with many Vietnam Vets. Many of them were indeed spat upon and yelled at when they went home during the Vietnam years.

You can blame John Kerry and his lies during Winter Soldier for much of that. You can blame John Kerry and his lies that he told before Congress on national TV. WINTER SOLDIER .. google it. Kerry should be in jail. Not just for the lies he told at Winter Soldier and in front of congress, but for the lies he told about the US service men and women that caused them to be spat at and yelled at. 'Baby Killer' was a favorite slam used against some of my former co-workers.



[edit on 12/10/2006 by FlyersFan]

First of all The law deals with wrong and no wrongs that is why we have it.

Calling for her death after her demonstration and invading her home is wrong.

If we are going to fight over Bushes war and tell each other to get into each other homes that disagree with us and wag wars with our own peers and American citizens, makes us no better than the people that are killing each other in the land that We liberated in the name for the good of th world..

Are we better people or just Hypocrites.

That is my point. Take it of leave it, and then we call our nation a civilized one.

This how is been worked to be, if American people stays divided and fighting we each other for opinions to the point of violence we are easier target against anything that our own leaders may have planned for us our own government and their spinning machine is working on Americans indiscriminately and we all falling for it.

This topic and responses are the very issue I trying to point out.

Yes, wrong is wrong but two wrongs do no make anything right.

Originally posted by PapaHomer

And dg, shame on you for dismissing what has happened to some Vietnam Vets as BS, only because those you know were not spit upon. Until you have met every single one, you cannot say what has happened to all.

I speak the truth and never have i met anyone who served in VietNam who was spat upon. I married a marine, he had his buddies from Camp LeJeune and other bases who still visit to this day, we frequented the VFW before we had kids and not ONCE have i heard of this.

Maybe, in all honesty i was too young to get the whole picture, but as i said i never encountered anyone who was spat on. Should i lie? Does this mean that because a couple of ignorant people spit on our troops we can say " VietNam veterans were spat upon return"??? Isnt that generalizing way too much????? This is America, full of the good the bad and the ugly. What can i say?

For anyone out there thinking of spitting on our men, SHAME ON YOU- I hope they stick the spitters in jail for a long time,. or create a separate trailer park out there for them.

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by jsobecky

So could you, marg, so I don't really know what you are trying to defend here. Esp. when you're always so proud of your husband's service to his country.

Very simple, JS, something that you have not seen . . .

How this story has brought a part of human nature that brings only the negative part of one and each of us.

While some are very clear on the dislike of the woman in question . . . for her actions. . . if this has been done on a none military . . . would it have made it into the news and on this thread? JS.

It would not have made news if it were just two average citizens.

I can see where it has brought out negative responses, but I don't see how anyone could find anything positive to say about the lady, marg. Can you?

And it's human nature to have gut reactions. Who among us hasn't wanted to kill a child-murderer or similar? And I'm not putting this woman in the same category as a child murderer, but people have varying degrees of tolerance.

Now what it bothers me and I believe it should raise concerns on others isThis type of sentiment when somebody post about having some type of violent action . . . against the woman in question. . . that. . . comes to mind.

Yeah, but take it for what it is, marg. People exaggerate all the time - it doesn't mean they will actually do it. Their true actions, given the opportunity, would fall way short of their words.

If we believed everything we read here on ATS, we'd be in big trouble!

Why did she walk to the soldier and asked him if he was from Fort Drum and them spit on him .

What is so special about been from that particular place?

Does anybody knows, for what I see is something that trouble the woman about that particular place and perhaps She could very well be a nut case.

Probably no big mystery. Fort Drum isn't far from Syracuse, and that, other than the evening news on CNN, is probably this woman's only exposure to the military.

Marg, every time I disagree with you, I feel like I should put my arm around your shoulder and tell you that I don't mean to hurt your feelings. Why is that?

Still not one link to any credible source of an actual documented case of a Vietnam soldier being spit on?
Where is the evidence to back up these claims?

Its amazing how all these people say 'it happend to me' or 'it happened to my father' but there is not one bit of actual factual evidence.

I would like to apollogize for calling your belief an URBAN LEGEND, but I cant do that until you give me something, ANYTHING to go on, other than hear-say.

All Im asking for is one link to something other then a Blog.

YOur 'Vietnam vets were spit on' story would not hold up in any court.

And NO, its not just because I have never seen it happen. Its because every single Vietnam Vet I have talked to IN PERSON says that it didnt happen.

DOnt you think that if it DID happen, especially if it was as widespread as some of you seem to think it was, that there would be atleast ONE news story about it?

I mean seriously, if this did happen and now we cant find ANY RECORD of it, then there must be a conspiracy to hide the evidence right?

A conspiracy of great magnitude to cleanse all news sources, police records and historical documents of all references to Vietnam Vets being spit on?

Now Im sure some of you will keep believeing this myth, but as for me, I need a little more than unsubstantiated claims and hear-say. Besides, a conspiracy to cleanse all public records would be too vast to ever work, and there is no way they could remove all records of an event that some people think happend on a daily basis.








[edit on 10-12-2006 by 11Bravo]

Originally posted by marg6043

I will like to have more information on the incident, because I don't know about you JS . . . but is sounds kind of weird that she before spiting on the soldier in question. . . .

Why did she walk to the soldier and asked him if he was from Fort Drum and them spit on him .

What is so special about been from that particular place?

Does anybody knows, for what I see is something that trouble the woman about that particular place and perhaps She could very well be a nut case.

Good point, that's why there's a legal system and laws prohibiting publication of the addresses of accused.

For all we know her daughter was gang-raped by soldiers attending Fort Drum, heck - maybe he was one of them.

Knee-jerk assumptions and reflexive conclusions because of emotional feelings surrounding circumstance do not justify persecution.

Sounds like media opportunism to drum up unthinking responses in fear social ostracism.

The cruelty directed at the returning soldiers of Vietnam was against a back-drop of very active and vocal anti-war demonstrations and agitation.

People were burning their draft cards and actively recruiting people with the slogan 'What if they gave a war and noone came.'

Asking all citizens to take personal responsibility and just NOT PARTICIPATE in the war.

Those who did participate were not seen as just 'soldiers following orders' but active supporters of a self-serving and elitist dogma.

Today, there seems to be a greater assumption of learned helplessness in the consequence of government policy and further identification for those directly involved in the carrying out of said policies.

Or more than that, a passive acceptance of whatever social construct is thrown out in the CNN age.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Still not one link to any credible source of an actual documented case of a Vietnam soldier being spit on?
Where is the evidence to back up these claims?

I'm not sure how old you are but I would like you to know that the Internet hasn't been around forever, infact it is quite new to this world. They did not have the internet in the 70's infact they didn't even have personal computers and had to type up their news stories on type writers. Now you might be asking why I brought this up. Well, because of this, very few of the newspaper stories from that time period are digitized and on a computer. That means your not going to find the little link you think constitutes proof of anything.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Its amazing how all these people say 'it happend to me' or 'it happened to my father' but there is not one bit of actual factual evidence.

I would like to apollogize for calling your belief an URBAN LEGEND, but I cant do that until you give me something, ANYTHING to go on, other than hear-say.

All Im asking for is one link to something other then a Blog.

YOur 'Vietnam vets were spit on' story would not hold up in any court.

And NO, its not just because I have never seen it happen. Its because every single Vietnam Vet I have talked to IN PERSON says that it didnt happen.

DOnt you think that if it DID happen, especially if it was as widespread as some of you seem to think it was, that there would be atleast ONE news story about it?

I mean seriously, if this did happen and now we cant find ANY RECORD of it, then there must be a conspiracy to hide the evidence right?

A conspiracy of great magnitude to cleanse all news sources, police records and historical documents of all references to Vietnam Vets being spit on?

Now Im sure some of you will keep believeing this myth, but as for me, I need a little more than unsubstantiated claims and hear-say. Besides, a conspiracy to cleanse all public records would be too vast to ever work, and there is no way they could remove all records of an event that some people think happend on a daily basis.
[edit on 10-12-2006 by 11Bravo]

I would also like to state that getting spit on, even soldiers, in the 1970's was not considered news worthy to the media of that era. You see they hadn't invented the 24 hours new networks yet. Also most vietnam vets would not want the public attention since they were already being lambasted in the media. Really how many soldiers would go and report to the news "Hey i got spit on" None. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You see we didnt have a public effort to protect the dignity of our soldiers back then as we do now. You know why we even have it now? Because of what happened with Vietnam. You can pretend what ever cute reality you want saying that you know so many vets that haven't been spit on. And I guarantee there are many that haven't been but I'm sure you went to every one of them too and asked them if they were humiliated in this way. Most importantly though it doesn't matter if it wasn't as wide spread as we all may believe and it probably isn't but what really matters is that it did happen and that these vets were treated VERY poorly and deserve your respect and gratitude. Questioning whether they were spit on or not really is a disgrace to what they have been through.

clearwater,

Exactly . . . you pretty much see what I also see . . . I hope.

Is more to this story than meet the eye . . . perhaps the woman has personal issue with soldiers from that base. . .

No necessarily involving Iraq and any anti war protest.

JS thanks for the last line on your post.. This thread raised some important issue even about the reaction of others when it comes to incidents that may or may not have to do with war in Iraq turn immediately political I am guilty of it too.

This makes me come to the conclusion that perhaps we are been manipulated to become this divided about issue without even stopping and thinking what is behind it to Begin with.

The whole spiting issue could be nothing than personal no war related.

I find it very troublesome the reactions to this particular case without knowing the entire story and facts.