Originally posted by Ste2652
The current EU is also partly what the British wanted it to be. We never bought into any of this 'united Europe' stuff, which the French
- This is completely wrong (although it is entirely in keeping with the fairly recent - 20 or so yr old - gross distortion of actual British history
and the truth of the events leading up to the creation of the EEC/EU).
It was Churchill (ex tory PM) actually that spoke of a 'United States of Europe'.
The French and Germans still try to do things to 'unite' Europe (you may have heard that they have a joint military division), but not many
other European nations are up for it
- I think you'll find that whilst there is a small difference of emphasis or degree almost all of the rest of EU Europe is fully behind the ideals
of an ever closer cooperating Europe.
So much so that people are begging to be let in, not the opposite.
The notion of a 'European superstate' is a fake argument that has never been possible and (in the light of the French and Dutch rejection of the
so-called 'constitution') could never be possible.
Hence why we've remained close to the United States.
Britain & the USA have followed a (loosely) similar economic model since the late 1970's/early 1980's.
Playing one off against the other in furtherance of our own interests has long been a British tradition (going back through the whole of the 20th
It's sort of double standards when we moan and complain about people coming here when we do it ourselves
- I'm not moaning.
How could I moan about this?
I'm British and we Brits are one of the biggest bunches of immigrants the world has ever seen
(except 'we' usually did travel the globe and really did end up fighting, killing and completely taking places over).
Originally posted by st3ve_o
there’s a lot of people talking about them due to the fact they are saying they will put an halt to something that is TRUELLY getting out of control
in this country and that’s 'immigration'.
- If you look at the history of our politics there's always been a rump of opinion that claims 'immigration is out of control'.
The truth is every British Gov since 1959 has imposed restrictions upon further restrictions.
the labour party don't seem to have a clue how to put a limit on immigration
- Well that kind of flies in the face of the fact that this lot are about to add even more immigration restrictions on top of those that they have
already put in place to date.
In fact by imposing restrictions upon the movement of Bulgarians and Romanians when they join the EU next year they are going further than has been
done before by any British Gov of any colour.
The idea that they 'have all done nothing' or 'have no control' is simply not true.
don't say it's not a problem in britain, as it's been widely discussed in parliament and in the british press
- That doesn't mean anything especially.
Elements of the British press have been moaning about immigration since the 1950's.
Inevitably they almost never talk about any positive benefits and concentrate almost exclusively on the (claimed) negative(s).
(doctors/dentists) should be first priority if they want to earn a living in Britain (specialist workers we need)
- I think you'll find that is largely what has been going on.
but importing workers to do 'labouring' jobs like factory work is shocking
- Who's doing this "importing" then?
The truth is that we have free movement of labour, the Gov is not "importing" anybody.
EU citizens don't need Gov approval to come here and work (excepting those from Romania and Bulgaria next year).
when we have many middle-class BRITISH citizens unemployed and looking for work.
The British middle classes to fill the labouring and menial jobs gaps now are they?!
You'll perhaps explain where they have been to date then
because the whole reason why British employers are happy to take on these guys is because 'our people', generally speaking, will not do those jobs
for the rates offered.
sminkeypinkey, you make a point about us being in the european collective...well why do we import indians to work over here then?
- Where is this "importing" fantasy coming from?
If you think about this you'd quickly realise that Britain is in a special position (in addition to the EU situation) thanks to the hang-overs of
Empire and the effects of now our 'Commonwealth'.
People from the commonwealth have rights to be British citizens and come here.......and considering so many fought and died for this country in WW1 &
2 (and some still do, serving in the British armed forces) it is hardly asking too much IMO.
The real truth about the whole immigration debate (recognising the manner in which it is invariably conducted in the UK) is that it is a subject few
will debate rationally.
It is almost always exploited by either those seeking to use people's worst instincts for their own narrow political gain or in support of those
seeking to use..... etc etc.
(The siren-song is always the same infantile garbage,if it wasn't for 'them' you'd be living high on the hog and life would be a
This is revealed almost without fail and every time because the 'debate' from those types almost always concentrates only on the negative aspects
and is utterly loath to consider the positive.