Love and judgement day

Many aspects of salvation in the Christian sense center around a love and acceptance for Jesus, a trust in him to save you. Many aspects of spirituality also center around acceptance and love for all things. Therefore, if you accept all things, then apparently if you came across Jesus, then surely you would accept him, if you had found a way in yourself to do this with anything.

It is just really neat, thinking about how many religion would succeed in this simple test of love and acceptance, without ever being christian. If ya think about it, any belief that shows love and respect for everything, would ultimately show love for Jesus regardless. Anyway, wow! I love the implications of this.

However, the Bible talks about a deciever. I have to wonder just who would I be if I didn't show the deciever the same trust and love, and therefore the deciever is not going to be some guy, but it will perhaps be our own doubt.

Anyway, how could we turn our backs to this "deciever" (in the endtimes story of revelations, whether you take it literally or symbolically) without sinning ourselves?! That is the big question for me atm.

Originally posted by Novise
Many aspects of salvation in the Christian sense center around a love and acceptance for Jesus, a trust in him to save you.

Wow...you know...I am a notorious 'christian basher' here at ATS...and that is truly one point I have never thought of ! In that particular sense....
Good one!

Not that I bash Christ or Yehoshua or anyone else....all I really try to do is shake them up a little, maybe knock 'two' eyes into 'one' eye? You know?

And the bible says that Christ said to Love God and Love Your Neighbor as Yourself (so right there that is 3 we must love because we must first love ourselves to know how much to love our neighbor!)...

Christ didn't even mention himself! At all!

Never ever ever did he ask for love or acceptance....only trust in His word as coming from the Father...

It is nice to get it, but truth is better, IMO...to be hated for telling the truth is better than to be loved for telling a lie!

Therefore, if you accept all things, then apparently if you came across Jesus, then surely you would accept him, if you had found a way in yourself to do this with anything.

NO doubt! But that is not the christian theology - so christians were found (according to a recent survey by secret covert angels) to be the LEAST likely to actually play that roullette wheel to win....which is, of course, treat all the same - as if they were Christ or God Himself!

It is just really neat, thinking about how many religion would succeed in this simple test of love and acceptance, without ever being christian.

That is truly profound. I hope and pray that christians will hear what you are saying!

If ya think about it, any belief that shows love and respect for everything, would ultimately show love for Jesus regardless. Anyway, wow! I love the implications of this.

I'm assuming you are not a christian?! That you are a 'lover of brethren?'

However, the Bible talks about a deceiver. I have to wonder just who would I be if I didn't show the deceiver the same trust and love, and therefore the deceiver is not going to be some guy, but it will perhaps be our own doubt.

Yep...doubts caused by FEAR? as in 'look I fear' or 'luc i fer?'
Which is still rather ironic, since Lucifer is just one of the names for the bright and morning daystar of LOVE and UNITY....

BTW, the UNITY is a very recent policy change..

Anyway, how could we turn our backs to this "deciever" (in the endtimes story of revelations, whether you take it literally or symbolically) without sinning ourselves?! That is the big question for me atm.

Well, you would be surprised at what goes on behind our backs
....not watching our monkey gets us both into trouble (the monkey AND ourselves)
....even worse, so many people HAVE no idea that we ALL have a monkey
...they think it is only there on the backs of those people they call 'I am glad I am not...'

The general impression I get is that is best to make buddies with your monkeys...

Many aspects of salvation in the Christian sense center around a love and acceptance for Jesus, a trust in him to save you. Many aspects of spirituality also center around acceptance and love for all things. Therefore, if you accept all things, then apparently if you came across Jesus, then surely you would accept him, if you had found a way in yourself to do this with anything.

This is a neat utopian thought but riddled with problems. First you need to define just what you mean by "accept all things"? Is this in regards to accepting all beliefs and religions? If so how is that even possible when they all disagree. I hold to Truth being Absolute and that God alone is the Author of that Truth. Do you accept that? The atheist holds that truth is relative and there is no God. Do you also accept that?

The Hindu claims there are over 2 million gods and the Buddhist (some forms) claim that all is an illusion. Are you accepting of all these world views as "true" and equally valid?

The other issue is that no one accepts Jesus. No one wakes up one morning and says...."Ya know, I want to accept Jesus as my Lord and Saviour!" The Scriptures speak rather of man being called by God and given faith by God to believe.

Queenannie stated,

Never ever ever did he ask for love or acceptance....only trust in His word as coming from the Father...

This left me scratching my head as my mind brought up several passages that say otherwise.

John 5:39-40
39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
NASU

Right here Jesus states clearly that if you do not "accept" Him you have no life. What does it mean to "come to Me" other than "accept Me"?

A few verses down Jesus states the same thing.

John 5:43
43 "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
NASU

What is the work of God the people ask Jesus in John 6:28 and Jesus replies,

John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
NASU

John 6 is full of references to Jesus being our only source of live yet if we reject Him we have no life.

Then we have the famous dialogue between Peter and Jesus in John 21.

John 21:15-17
15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Tend My lambs."

16 He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He said to him, "Shepherd My sheep."

17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Tend My sheep.
NASU

Queenannie, are we reading the same Scriptures??

You also stated this,

It is nice to get it, but truth is better, IMO...to be hated for telling the truth is better than to be loved for telling a lie!

With that in mind have you not mispoken about your previous statement regarding Jesus, love and acceptance?

I am reading the LIVING WORD...

you seem to still be reading the dead book made of cut-down trees, UnrealZA.

Do you open a book or do you open your heart?

The one who He sent....this time HE sent THREE!!!
And you have not listened to even one of us yet!

And still, nothing has changed!

You search the scriptures....thinking in them you will find life....
THE life is a LIVING thing - in the flesh - spirit once again has come for God's purpose...

and I, for one, was dismayed to realize there are still Pharisees! After all that you are still at it! Murder in the name of our GOD is not any sort of viable religion!

ONLY LOVE....God is a GOD of loving-kindness! Read King David - he KNEW....

MAKE loving-kindness your religion, UnrealZA....fair warning! I speak the truth!

You want to judge when you have not even looked at yourself - with love and with mercy....

You are no different than anyone else. Neither am I. We are all humans and we are all brothers....

Shiloh has come - time to hear those who are sent!

So only the Scriptures you want to use are valid?

That's pretty safe eh?

You can use Biblical passages, name people from the Bible, and give us an explanation of those passages but if anyone else seeks to do so...the hammer comes down. That's very convenient.

It is illogical to argue in your manner. You make a claim, that Jesus never asked for love or acceptance yet how do you know His name is Jesus (Yeshua)?? How did you come to know the name of God? Did you read it somewhere or did it just come to you?

You know the name because you read it in Scripture at some point in time but what if His name is really Fred? My point is that you trust Scripture in some things but not in others, why? Because those other things disagree with your preconceived notion of who and what God is. If a Scripture demonstrates that you're in error, like the ones I posted, then obviously those are not of God.

This can be easlily demonstrated if you wish to deal with a question honestly? How do you know Jesus never asked for "love or acceptance"?

You may now seek to ignore my questions but others, even if they disagree with me, see how illogical your reasoning is.

Originally posted by UnrealZA
So only the Scriptures you want to use are valid?

Not at all....I know that ALL words are part of the WORD. But I know the word as ALIVE....and yet I cannot express myself to the full potential of my spectrum because there is still too much division and unrighteous judgment amongst the murmurers!

That's pretty safe eh?

'SAFE' means nothing to me...good for you - I could care less about 'safe.'

You can use Biblical passages, name people from the Bible, and give us an explanation of those passages but if anyone else seeks to do so...the hammer comes down. That's very convenient.

No, actually it is EXPERIENCE.

You make a claim, that Jesus never asked for love or acceptance yet how do you know His name is Jesus (Yeshua)??

That was NOT his name! That is not a hebrew name...Yehoshua....if you wanted to call him in English, say 'Joshua!' JUST like the one who came after Moses...

How do I know? BECAUSE I was THERE. And I knew him better than the boys...but it wasn't a competition...it was teamwork...it is ALWAYS about teamwork.....but three doesn't even make a basketball team...not that we had that, back then, but you know...

How did you come to know the name of God? Did you read it somewhere or did it just come to you?

Do you know the name of YOUR father? Surely unless you grew up in an orphanage you know the name of your dad?

SO DO I! (my dad, not yours, that is)

His name is really Fred?

Wow. That is really close..a bit too long, but WOW...now I should ask you: who told you my father's name?

My point is that you trust Scripture in some things but not in others, why?

Because it has been edited in places...or translated poorly..nothing intentional. But hey, it is a very old book! OLD OLD OLD

If a Scripture demonstrates that you're in error, like the ones I posted, then obviously those are not of God.

Look, all I can say is that you are able to choose that which is alive and that which is dead....you have BOTH within you reach..free of charge and fully transferrable...

Yet you remain stiff-necked....it has been 2000 years! When will you loosen up and LIVE a little?

This can be easlily demonstrated if you wish to deal with a question honestly?

I do. You do not listen nor do you regard my words of any worth. I'm used to it.

But I AM getting tired of it....for YOUR own good I am tired of it...

How do you know Jesus never asked for "love or acceptance"?

Because I was THERE....and I gave him both - before he asked. It really only takes ONE....
ONE good woman or ONE good man ( I mean as far as loyalty and constancy!)

You may now seek to ignore my questions but others, even if they disagree with me, see how illogical your reasoning is.

I never ignore you on the basis of disagreement - but one of us has to know when to walk away before it gets to be bickering...I am not the rock of offense.
I am not the rock upon which you should stumble...I am the rock upon which you should stand.

And no more are coming...there are no further 'arrivals!' Not of the pleasant type, that is...and IF you would see than I am not what you think I am...and just see no one but a handmaiden with a slave's earring on.....if you would only believe the words of those who has sent THIS time....

PLEASE UnrealZA! Ask Him! Pray! He sent me! I want to be heard but not as anything else than a trumpet of the LORD....

there is no 'annie.' She died quite some time ago....but annie is the body with the mouth that works and the fingers which type and if you want to hear then open your ears!

No, I don't believe you. You bring a false gospel and for this Scripture calls all who do "accursed".

You believe you physically lived and walked with Jesus? If so that's absurd, you come across, not only to me, but others also I am sure, as dillusional.

Gal 1:6-10
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.
NASU


So queenannie here I am sure we part ways. Continuing with you in the area of theology is like speaking to a shifting sand dune. It's always being blown around and changing.

Originally posted by UnrealZA
No, I don't believe you. You bring a false gospel and for this Scripture calls all who do "accursed".

There is no more curse...At long last....no more curse.

You believe you physically lived and walked with Jesus? If so that's absurd, you come across, not only to me, but others also I am sure, as dillusional.

Why?

So queenannie here I am sure we part ways.

That is totally up to you - I can't make your decisions for you...if I could...this would be LONG behind US ALL! Trust me....I am tired.

Continuing with you in the area of theology is like speaking to a shifting sand dune. It's always being blown around and changing.

No doubt....the spirit that is holy blows the snow white sands....in the parched place where the snakes and scorpions live...but there was a bright light ONE JULY at a place called 'the Trinity site.'

I was only gone from April 30. 1945 to July 16, 1945...just long enough to cross the Atlantic ocean... On the wings of a dove...

Yes it is but a utopian thought and yes, it is riddled with problems. I wanted to bring up here because I thought it was rather compelling and interesting. There is no way we are going to see this from the same point of view. If someone else had written it, and I read it, there’s no telling how I would have taken it. Hopefully we take something from it. Also, I look forward to discussing it, learning from it, and putting it behind me taking what I had learned from it, just like all my other thoughts.

I tried to convey it as best I could with this in mind. I don’t want to present it as my belief, but as a thought, a hypothetical situation. Take a Buddhist perspective, who aims to be at peace with everything. And by “accept all things,” I basically meant to convey “to be at peace with all things.” It is pretty hard to define “all things” in the first place, and that doesn’t make it any easier to think about and discuss.

So if a person who aimed to be at peace with and show love and respect for every thing he came across, then that person would also upon seeing Jesus, show the same thing. I’m not trying to be tricky with words here, I’m not trying to pull something, I wanted to use this hypothetical situation to further explore spirituality and religious ideas. I have heard some podcasts on Buddhism. The man I have listened to was talking about how the mind can be at peace (not be distracted, not be prejudicial) with any sort of stimulus or perception that it comes in contact with, it is up to the person how it is taken!

The problem is right there, and admitted at the end of my post. Because through accepting anything, the deceiver would also be accepted, and that would be big trouble.

On the same note, by showing this (and any) abomination our hatred for it, are we not breaking a rule? We are not doing unto him as we would have him do unto us. That is another problem I see with the original lessons taught from scripture, and I sort of said that at the end of the post. It’s like the war on terror. We say we can’t become the terrorist to fight the terrorist. Well what if we become the beast to try to make sure we aren’t deceived? I don’t think this is what necessarily happens, but what about it?

I write these thoughts and ask these questions trusting that I will learn something from the responses and that we will get something out of it. I would write more to make the ideas more presentable, but I think I’ve rambled on too much already, and really they are what they are!

I appreciate the replies and enthusiasm.

I'm assuming you are not a christian?! That you are a 'lover of brethren?'

I take it as a compliment for you to assume such (because you seem to appreciate it), and really I like the sound of that. Don’t read too much into my post, I have not had any special experiences with things of a spiritual nature, however a ‘Lover of Brethren’ sounds like something I would strive to be (and do strive to be).

I hope my questions are things that can be answered readily, and discussed.

Originally posted by Novise
Hopefully we take something from it. Also, I look forward to discussing it, learning from it, and putting it behind me taking what I had learned from it, just like all my other thoughts.

Those are TRULY wise words...maybe you will serve as an inspiring example...for you are willing to tread carefully where even Angels heart's have dread!

It is pretty hard to define “all things” in the first place, and that doesn’t make it any easier to think about and discuss.

No doubt! But that is basically it.
'Be like passers-by!'

The man I have listened to was talking about how the mind can be at peace (not be distracted, not be prejudicial) with any sort of stimulus or perception that it comes in contact with, it is up to the person how it is taken!

That is all it is about, honestly. We can react or respond or just sit quietly in awareness!

Because through accepting anything, the deceiver would also be accepted, and that would be big trouble.

Well, only in the sense of being deceived.
If not deceived - we have but one task....forgive the deceiver! (more than likely they are their own greatest victim and so their deceit of others is actually secondary and can't be held against them any more that we lie to our ownselves unknowingly!)
But if deceived - then there is two-fold forgiveness. And if we have trouble forgiving ourselves for being deceived (because we were so SURE we were RIGHT) then we will have even more difficulty releasing the other from our grudge!

On the same note, by showing this (and any) abomination our hatred for it, are we not breaking a rule?

I don't know if we can say so until necessary.
Circumstances dictate!

That is another It’s like the war on terror. We say we can’t become the terrorist to fight the terrorist. Well what if we become the beast to try to make sure we aren’t deceived? I don’t think this is what necessarily happens, but what about it?

hmmm.... I think you might be on to something...hadn't ever thought of it that way....but I will ponder it a bit!

I'm assuming you are not a christian?! That you are a 'lover of brethren?'

I take it as a compliment for you to assume such (because you seem to appreciate it), and really I like the sound of that. Don’t read too much into my post, I have not had any special experiences with things of a spiritual nature, however a ‘Lover of Brethren’ sounds like something I would strive to be (and do strive to be).

Assumptions can be applied as encouragement! As such: I am speaking of what WILL be in the tense of what IS....and you already said you like the sound of it...
So be it.
Thoughts are things and what we say today will be our future down the road.

WE make our destiny with our words! The bible warns us of this...but most of us do not heed that...

I hope my questions are things that can be answered readily, and discussed.

With you, yes, I think there is great possibility. But there are many things I might say that will cause others to disrupt the conversation. But I will hang in there with calmness and equanimity for the sake of your exploration!

Originally posted by UnrealZA
So only the Scriptures you want to use are valid?

use them all, and then apply ALL the scriptures to ALL, and then you may see that her perspective is not decieving you, your perspective may be decieving you.

i believe this is one of the points that Queenannie is trying to share.

Originally posted by UnrealZA
No, I don't believe you. You bring a false gospel and for this Scripture calls all who do "accursed".

You believe you physically lived and walked with Jesus? If so that's absurd, you come across, not only to me, but others also I am sure, as dillusional.

Gal 1:6-10
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

if these are indeed the words of God, then it would seem God is "amazed" with Queenannie.

7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

but christ's gospell has had over 2,000 years of time. and yet, still not 7 consecutive days without war, killing, and destruction on earth in 2,000 years?

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

but:" that which you do to the least of my brothers is that which you do unto me."
so, what if what has been preached to me has been recieved by me?

9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Oh, good. so, if i have recieved it, then i am not to be accursed! good news!

10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.
NASU

perhaps if god wanted the same thing men wanted?
perhaps if men wanted the same thing god wanted?

what does god want?
what do men want?

So queenannie here I am sure we part ways. Continuing with you in the area of theology is like speaking to a shifting sand dune. It's always being blown around and changing.

and yet, the oldest structures on earth lie with the sand dunes.

[edit on 25-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Ahhhh yes, the bearded star who ruled as a man...not once, not twice...but THRICE!

Inanna
Anastasia
annie

an an
clouds prophecy divination!
peace in heaven's sky!

Originally posted by Novise
Yes it is but a utopian thought and yes, it is riddled with problems. I wanted to bring up here because I thought it was rather compelling and interesting. There is no way we are going to see this from the same point of view. If someone else had written it, and I read it, there’s no telling how I would have taken it. Hopefully we take something from it. Also, I look forward to discussing it, learning from it, and putting it behind me taking what I had learned from it, just like all my other thoughts.

I tried to convey it as best I could with this in mind. I don’t want to present it as my belief, but as a thought, a hypothetical situation. Take a Buddhist perspective, who aims to be at peace with everything. And by “accept all things,” I basically meant to convey “to be at peace with all things.” It is pretty hard to define “all things” in the first place, and that doesn’t make it any easier to think about and discuss.

So if a person who aimed to be at peace with and show love and respect for every thing he came across, then that person would also upon seeing Jesus, show the same thing. I’m not trying to be tricky with words here, I’m not trying to pull something, I wanted to use this hypothetical situation to further explore spirituality and religious ideas. I have heard some podcasts on Buddhism. The man I have listened to was talking about how the mind can be at peace (not be distracted, not be prejudicial) with any sort of stimulus or perception that it comes in contact with, it is up to the person how it is taken!

The problem is right there, and admitted at the end of my post. Because through accepting anything, the deceiver would also be accepted, and that would be big trouble.

On the same note, by showing this (and any) abomination our hatred for it, are we not breaking a rule? We are not doing unto him as we would have him do unto us. That is another problem I see with the original lessons taught from scripture, and I sort of said that at the end of the post. It’s like the war on terror. We say we can’t become the terrorist to fight the terrorist. Well what if we become the beast to try to make sure we aren’t deceived? I don’t think this is what necessarily happens, but what about it?

In a nutshell novise we are to love only God and seek only His will. If we love our Lord God and He is in us then we shall love our neighbor (which is not just ones literal next door neighbor) and the command "do unto others as we would have them do unto us" would then be a by-product of that relationship.

Perhaps you can aswer your own hypothetical with this question....or questions. A person drinks too much and runs over your pet dog. He keeps on driving as if nothing happened. You though are crushed with pain, anguish and anger towards the drunk driver. God would want us to love that drunk correct? OR are we to be angry at his drunkeness but love the person?

A loved one close to you steals from you and you catch them redhanded. Your love for them is not gone but surely you hate their act of theft. Your relationship with them, say as a cousin, does not change nor is it broken but rather your fellowship is broken. This then needs to be restored and healed. If my daughter lies to me that lie cannot change the fact that I am her father BUT our fellowship is broken. It though will eventually be restored as she seeks forgivness and I accept it. The saying, "Love the sinner, hate the sin" holds some truth in the sense that we are to love our nieghbor BUT this does not mean we have to like or accept what they do.

As a Believer am I to "love" or "hate" Satan? Well if Satan is the father of lies, the Deceiver and Accusor of the brethren and I am told to flee from sin and avoid it then obviously I am not to "love" Satan.

Satan is already defeated. He is no threat to the Believer so to Believers it's a non-issue.

In a nutshell novise we are to love only God and seek only His will. If we love our Lord God and He is in us then we shall love our neighbor (which is not just ones literal next door neighbor) and the command "do unto others as we would have them do unto us" would then be a by-product of that relationship.

First of all, UnrealZA thanks for moving on and trying to help me, I didn't feel like I really did your own questions justice. Just didn't want to ramble on too much about stuff I didn't know.

This is a beautiful thought, It will be sinking in over the next few days.

Perhaps you can aswer your own hypothetical with this question....or questions.

These questions did a lot of good for me, I have heard it before but not from you.
I think I understand what you are telling me much better now.

I have to say that in my case, I have always tried to "love the sinner" by aiming to understand them, their situations, their motives, trying to "walk in their shoes." Perhaps this is where my confusion comes from.

As a Believer am I to "love" or "hate" Satan? Well if Satan is the father of lies, the Deceiver and Accusor of the brethren and I am told to flee from sin and avoid it then obviously I am not to "love" Satan.

I guess I could be on a dangerous (or stupid) path, just trying to understand everyone and their reasons, so that I can say, "oh that is ok then, you are fine by me." And then of course, assuming everyone has a good reason to do what they do. You see, this is part of how I aimed to accomplish the golden rule myself (and to forgive, and to be positive towards others), basically. Or at least to make it an easier task.

That's enough for that post I think. Easy to see I don't have it all figured out! Thankyou guys.

[edit on 26-11-2006 by Novise]

[edit on 26-11-2006 by Novise] to get the quotes right!

[edit on 26-11-2006 by Novise]

Originally posted by Novise
I have to say that in my case, I have always tried to "love the sinner" by aiming to understand them, their situations, their motives, trying to "walk in their shoes." Perhaps this is where my confusion comes from.

NO! Not at all!!! That is EXACTLY what you should do...walking in their moccasins...finding out they aren't any different, and neither are the feet inside...or the dirt outside....

And eventually you won't worry about loving sinners but just loving others...
Why make them a sinner when to do so, you have to make yourself back into one, too?

Just let that whole concept fly out the open window...
free the mind
and you'll lose the blind!

I guess I could be on a dangerous (or stupid) path, just trying to understand everyone and their reasons, so that I can say, "oh that is ok then, you are fine by me."

NO it is dangerous for you to not understand and accept EVERYONE with ALL of their myriad and assorted reasons and mechanisms for coping...
We ALL have them....until the day we lose our flesh we ARE human.

Hopelessly human. WITHOUT exception.
But the only truly hopeless mindset is that of being 'mortal.'
We don't have to be mortal - only human.
Once we understand that....and know that once God was human, too - and continues to be human every day through each one of us...ALL of us but on the eachother level...then we realize we are immortal.

Mortality is 'death' = the wages of 'sin' are death.
But humanity is the eternal factor and that's a condition that is FREED from sin.
Freed means 'no longer bound and determined by.'

And then of course, assuming everyone has a good reason to do what they do.

Well, at the time, YES! Even if it is borne from self-delusion, it obviously is the only way presently to cope with the situation...none of WANTS to lie to self....we ALL do it....but if we know it's better...and when we see that we are, it means our mind is now able to face head-on that which it hid from us with its veil.

Delusion is not untruth - it is more like just giving an incomplete picture.
It becomes 'deception' when we believe the incomplete is complete already and don't allow it to continue to reveal itself...(dance of the seven veils!)
And it becomes a 'lie' when we KNOW it isn't fully revealed yet insist to others that it is because that's WHERE WE want it to stay....

The bible can be full of deception, contradiction, and delusion....
but it can also be nothing but good solid perpetual truth.

It all depends on what is in our hearts and minds to see...
a reason for our self-made purposes?
or a purpose to find our reason?

You see, this is part of how I aimed to accomplish the golden rule myself (and to forgive, and to be positive towards others), basically. Or at least to make it an easier task.

Sincerely - that is exactly how I approached it. You CAN NOT lose if you continue to do the same - as honestly as you are ABLE to....

Just try and don't give up...
on yourself or on being human!

Just quit being mortal.

God bless you!