Would Religion Exist without Writing?

Definition of religion: faithful obedience to God.

Which of the following are necessary for religion to exist?

1) Writing, Speech, and Hearing
2) Writing, Speech, but not Hearing
3) Writing and Hearing, but not Speech
4) Writing, but not Speech and Hearing
5) Speech and Hearing, but not Writing
6) Speech, but not Writing and Hearing
7) Hearing, but not Writing and Speech
8) None of the above

I believe in 8 as the Holy Spirit can touch our Soul in a unique and glorious fashion no matter what our physical abilities are. The blind, deaf, and mute come to mind and they have Infinite capacity to be Holy before God's eyes. In fact, they may be in tune with a greater Spiritual wavelength than those with greater physical abilities. Their religion (faithful obedience to God) might even be supernatural.

God Bless the Blind, Deaf, and Mute and All!!!

Originally posted by GreatTech
Definition of religion: faithful obedience to God.

Which of the following are necessary for religion to exist?

1) Writing, Speech, and Hearing
2) Writing, Speech, but not Hearing
3) Writing and Hearing, but not Speech
4) Writing, but not Speech and Hearing
5) Speech and Hearing, but not Writing
6) Speech, but not Writing and Hearing
7) Hearing, but not Writing and Speech
8) None of the above

I believe in 8 as the Holy Spirit can touch our Soul in a unique and glorious fashion no matter what our physical abilities are. The blind, deaf, and mute come to mind and they have Infinite capacity to be Holy before God's eyes. In fact, they may be in tune with a greater Spiritual wavelength than those with greater physical abilities. Their religion (faithful obedience to God) might even be supernatural.

God Bless the Blind, Deaf, and Mute and All!!!

I believe we would still believe in the old first gods if we didnt have writting hearing and speech. why? well because we could never build off of current belief systems. Everyone would start out clueless, then make an explaination for the unknowns, like lightning, earthquakes, etc.

In short, we would be stuck in time intellectually, because we could never build off of previous beliefs, which is what religion does pretty much. The greek gods were disproved and a new god came to be to answer the next high unknown (orgins and such).

Who cares about religion? is society as we know it the one that wouldnt exist, religion is a product of society, it manages to keep occupied the simpler minds in the name of the prevalence of society and current order.

So in the case of an individual presenting a truly good cause that benefits the whole of humanity and not just those in power, this of course will require a complete change in society and therefore will be considered as the antichrist or some other theologian myth.

I believe that there are many means of communication beyond humanity's current comprehension.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I believe that there are many means of communication beyond humanity's current comprehension.

Esoteric Teacher, I concur. Among humans, I believe the blind, deaf, and mute are more attune to these higher levels of communication. We should not condescend to the blind, deaf, and mute; we should honor them as much as we honor everybody else.

Originally posted by Zeratul
Who cares about religion? is society as we know it the one that wouldnt exist, religion is a product of society, it manages to keep occupied the simpler minds in the name of the prevalence of society and current order.

So in the case of an individual presenting a truly good cause that benefits the whole of humanity and not just those in power, this of course will require a complete change in society and therefore will be considered as the antichrist or some other theologian myth.

I find religion to be the most complex "subject", far exceeding mathematics or physics. Definition 1 of religion, out of the Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary (published in 2001), is the following: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." Science deals with temporal affairs; religion deals with eternal affairs. Eternity is Infinitely more powerful than temporality.

Originally posted by GreatTech
I find religion to be the most complex "subject", far exceeding mathematics or physics. Definition 1 of religion, out of the Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary (published in 2001), is the following: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." Science deals with temporal affairs; religion deals with eternal affairs. Eternity is Infinitely more powerful than temporality.

I cannot agree. Religion is nothing more then philosophy. Although it can be very complex, that is only because we create it to be. Philosophy itself is over thought. It is only as complex as you make it out to be. Math and physics doesn't really change, its complex whether you like it or not. You can be naturally better at it, but it is the same problem, whether you overthink it or not. With Philosophy/religion if you overthink it the question will constantly change and seem increasingly complex.

Peoples minds are more complex then the both combine.

Originally posted by grimreaper797

I cannot agree. Religion is nothing more then philosophy. Although it can be very complex, that is only because we create it to be. Philosophy itself is over thought. It is only as complex as you make it out to be. Math and physics doesn't really change, its complex whether you like it or not. You can be naturally better at it, but it is the same problem, whether you overthink it or not. With Philosophy/religion if you overthink it the question will constantly change and seem increasingly complex.

Peoples minds are more complex then the both combine.

Religion is closer to the Truth than math or physics because religion is closer to the creator of everything: God. The Truth is unchangeable. Math and physics change more than religion.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Religion is closer to the Truth than math or physics because religion is closer to the creator of everything: God. The Truth is unchangeable. Math and physics change more than religion.

That is your belief, and Im not going to argue over a belief.

They are both the same because they are both equally irrelevent. Math and Physics never change, we just havent reached the end yet. Math and physics aren't afraid to admit their wrong when they are (well alot are, but some arent) simply because it isn't the end of the world to admit you dont have the answers to everything.

Religion to me is just as relevent as math and physics, because both are secondary in priority.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Math and Physics never change, we just havent reached the end yet.

I stopped with math at the # 30.

Why?

a simple math problem that demonstrates math and numbers are less reliable than we think:

3 guys are travelling together cross country.

they stop for the night and rent a hotel room for $30.

They split the cost of the room between the 3 of them, so each guy pays $10 for the room.

the next morning the hotel manager noticed that the cable television signal was out for most the night. The hotel manager gives the bellhop $5 to give back to the 3 guys.

on the way up to the room the bellhop pockets $2 for himself, and then gives each of the guys $1 back.

so, since each of the three guys originally paid $10 for the room, and since they have each been given a dollar back, then each of the three guys has now only paid $9 for the room.

$9 times 3 guys = $27
plus the $2 the bellhop kept = $29

so we clearly have all $29 dollars accounted for, but what happened to the other dollar? the room cost $30 dollars.

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Religion to me is just as relevent as math and physics, because both are secondary in priority.

Spirituality and Spiritual-nature (worshipping God in every way possible) to me is more powerful than religion, which is much more powerful than math and physics. What is first priority to you?

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Math and Physics never change, we just havent reached the end yet.

I stopped with math at the # 30.

Why?

a simple math problem that demonstrates math and numbers are less reliable than we think:

3 guys are travelling together cross country.

they stop for the night and rent a hotel room for $30.

They split the cost of the room between the 3 of them, so each guy pays $10 for the room.

the next morning the hotel manager noticed that the cable television signal was out for most the night. The hotel manager gives the bellhop $5 to give back to the 3 guys.

on the way up to the room the bellhop pockets $2 for himself, and then gives each of the guys $1 back.

so, since each of the three guys originally paid $10 for the room, and since they have each been given a dollar back, then each of the three guys has now only paid $9 for the room.

$9 times 3 guys = $27
plus the $2 the bellhop kept = $29

so we clearly have all $29 dollars accounted for, but what happened to the other dollar? the room cost $30 dollars.

Thank you for your post, Esoteric Teacher, but your mathematical example is incomplete.

The three people paid 30 but were expected to recieve 5 back, so each was expected to pay 25/3 or 8.33333, or a sum total of 25. They received 3 back, so each actually paid 28/3 or 9.33333, or a sum total of 28. The remaining 2 was kept by the bellhop. The 30 is accounted for.

I always like your posts, Esoteric Teacher, as they stimulate thought.

thanks greattech, you were ahead of me. Order of Operations my friend. Do you not remember algebra 1? The order which you solve it matters just as much as the equation.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Spirituality and Spiritual-nature (worshipping God in every way possible) to me is more powerful than religion, which is much more powerful than math and physics. What is first priority to you?

first priority for me?

My first priority is whats next to do.

Just think about that. If finding truth is my purpose, then I can never find truth.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
thanks greattech, you were ahead of me. Order of Operations my friend. Do you not remember algebra 1? The order which you solve it matters just as much as the equation.

You are right about the order of operations. 30-5+3+2=30. If we can only perfect the order of operations in surgery???

Is your current religion based on what has been written, spoken, or heard? Percentage breakdown? If you are on the verge of changing religions, is it based on what has been written, spoken, or heard? Percentage breakdown?

My favorite religion is Roman Catholicism and it partly based on what has been written, spoken, and heard. I am not on the verge of change, but am welcome to a religion that would surpass all other religions.

Originally posted by GreatTech
You are right about the order of operations. 30-5+3+2=30. If we can only perfect the order of operations in surgery???

well actually its 30-5=25. now [(25/3)+1]*3=27.99999 now add the 2 and you get 30 because the .999 will go on forever. you cant say well your missing .000001, because it never ends, it just keeps going infinately.

Well anyway the order of operations show that it wasn't a dollar missing but an INFINATELY small decimal which cannot be messured. That only happened because you tried to divide it amoung an odd number of people. Had you divided an even number amoung an even number of people, that would not have happened simply because it factors evenly.

say you have one dollar and want to split it 3 ways evenly. You cant. You could possibly give everyone 1/3 of a cent, but then there would still be 1/9 missing right? well then divide that evenly. 1/27 missing then, and could go on evenly.

Ultimately, you found a problem because of inability to factor evenly. had 6 people rented a room for 30 dollars. 5 dollars each. then get 10 dollars back, each gets a dollar and the bus boy pockets 4 dollars. those are all even numbers except for the 5 which is not relevent in this case. Their original payment is obsolete. Because all the numbers can factor into eachother, you will have no problem.

I hope I explained what I meant though overall.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Is your current religion based on what has been written, spoken, or heard? Percentage breakdown? If you are on the verge of changing religions, is it based on what has been written, spoken, or heard? Percentage breakdown?

My favorite religion is Roman Catholicism and it partly based on what has been written, spoken, and heard. I am not on the verge of change, but am welcome to a religion that would surpass all other religions.

mine is based one what is felt, and has nothing to do with external sources. Writting, hearing and spoken are all external sources, none of which I use to guide me. They cannot accurately guide me. They could have certain rules which are similar to mine, but it is not an accurate guide.

Originally posted by grimreaper797

mine is based one what is felt, and has nothing to do with external sources. Writting, hearing and spoken are all external sources, none of which I use to guide me. They cannot accurately guide me. They could have certain rules which are similar to mine, but it is not an accurate guide.

grimreaper797, you are smart. I do not always agree with you, but you make good comments. Are you running for office as a representative in 2011? I might vote for you, but i live on the West Coast. God Bless You in your ambition.

Regarding the above quote, I admire your independence. I am a Roman Catholic, but an open-minded Roman Catholic, so I draw many beliefs from my personal experiences, and not just Church dogma. In the past, however, when I failed to identify with a religion, I felt less Love and Peace in my mind and soul. Identification with at least one religion has created greater Love and Peace in my mind and soul and helped me become a better person towards others. I believe Love and Peace is what life is about and is the Ultimate Guiding Force of the Universe.

Does your lack of identification with a religion created more or less Love and Peace in your mind and soul?

Does Heaven or Hell have to exist for religion to exist? Both, or neither? I believe Heaven has to exist for religion to exist as the purpose of many religions is to assist the Soul in reaching Heaven. I do not believe Hell has to exist for religion to exist but the painful thought of it certainly perfects our thoughts and actions to perform God's Heavenly Will. In my belief, Heaven and Hell exist, but only Heaven is required to exist for religion to exist.

What perfects our thoughts more, Heavenly thoughts or "scared of Hell" thoughts?