US votes rigged as hell, no democracy here!!!, page 2
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reply posted on 8-11-2002 @ 10:21 AM by OrionSirius
I think our little buddy (Freemason) is backlashing and insulting other people...therefore i might well as call him an asshole. The state our economy is NOT DUE to the clinton admin. Im sorry i dont care about a mans personel life just as long as he is a good president..does his job right..and thats exactly what Clinton did for America. The Economy is due to Bush ..and his republican buddies..that just like his fuking father he only worries about war and the military..and he is too CONSERVATIVE to be president. Im tired of all these conservative people in office..times are changing we need a whole new office.
Clinton was a smart man (well at least smarter than BUSH) he was a good speaker...And our foreign policy was good until BUsh came into office. Clinton was the kind of guy i wont mind representing me and my country...Bush on ther other hand is a disgrace to the american people.

Many people did not HATE us as much as they do now when Clinton was in office. This war not due to OIL...or Phony Terrorism. Come on people our foriegn policy sucks..if i lived in a thrid world country and saw what the american govt was doing..i would be pretty pissed off too. Ironically, many people dont realize this...and the reason is many poeple in the US do not travel..they have not seen how it is in other parts of the world..they do not know how it is in a third world country..and this is not something you can just read about and know..you have to actually experience it.

So yes Bush SUcks ass..and i wish someone would just throw his drunk ass out of office
HEH
OrionSirius


reply posted on 8-11-2002 @ 11:41 AM by Bout Time
No, as I've explained a 1000 times, it seems, the recession started in Mrch of 2001. You folks throw around terms and labels and then do nothing but salute the false definition ( third variance in Webster's definitions of 'Fascist' I believe )
Look, the ecomomy is a scalable, trackable, mathematical market paradigm. Like any formula driven math, there are cycles, with starts-middles-ends. The recession started in March of 2001. Period, end of story. What the spin applied to it in order to shift blame from Bush is acknowledging, is that the economy had hit a plateau and was starting it's decent under the last year of Clinton & first year of Bush. SLow down after HISTORIC GROWTH DOES NOT EQUAL A RECESSION. A recession is a decline in economic TRADE and PROSPERITY shorter than a depression.
It gets floated under the old Fascist axiom:" Repeat the lie enough & they'll think it true"
Same as Gore inventing the Internet; he never said that he did. He did say, rightfully so, that as a member of Congress he co-authored the legislation which brought the communications network now known as the Web, over to the public domain from it's birthplace as a government/research lab exclusive entity.


Sure sign the American Economy is in BIG trouble: Mcdonald's Is Laying off & closing Locations!

money.iwon.com.../alias/money/cm/nw

Sure sign the American Economy is in BIG trouble #2: Top SEC Cop, hired to bring confidence back to the market, fired auditing firm at his company because they caught the books being cooked!

www.nytimes.com...

[Edited on 8-11-2002 by Bout Time]


reply posted on 8-11-2002 @ 02:08 PM by Bout Time
It figures you'd like Rome, that little weasel. Who was the QB who kicked his butt on air?

All the Republicans who did well ran as Democrats, so it all works out! More proof positive that the country is firmly moderate. I can't believe anyone in the South would vote for any candidate who would want to take their hunting gun away. People think that NY is nothing but NYC. Right! We're more 'hick red neck' in parts of this state than anyone living in the trailer park next to Thomas!

Yes, I know when Bush was sworn in. It's not a question so much of giving birth to the recession, but doing nothing to stop it and hastening it on for ulterior motives, specifically the tax cut. Historically, the economy goes into stasis during a presidential election year voting period. Why? Logically, the people with speculative call in Corporate America are going to see who the winner is and which fiscal platform is going to be applied. The president's office does not make legislation. It does not drop interest rates like the FRB. But it does have the bully pulpit and the country does listen. All of the Bush rhetoric during the campaign, and after inauguration centered on the key theme of recession. A recession would be all that was needed for his tax cut as stimulus plan switcheroo. You do remember all the speeches about hitting the Trifecta that Bush made, don't you?
Not getting into the label tutorial again, the recession started then, but the degrees it progressed to in 2002 where not nearly as severe in 3/01. The fault is in the Bush administration looking to surf it out instead of applying stop gap measures to curtail it, in other words, they could have sealed the finger hole in the dyke early instead of it turning into a gusher. Intentional or incompetent, his was a negative effect regardless, just like ignoring the Israel/Palestinian conflict for 18 months.
Failed policies of Clinton? Where? And where's the proof? You have an economy that did in his 1 1/2 terms what the previous 3 terms of GOP stewardship couldn't do: raised the standard of living, took more people off of welfare, closed the gap between the haves & have nots with more Americans rising above the poverty line, and grew the economy to it's historic highs. To not think something is going to come down from a pinnacle is to not understand the physics of economics. Prosperity in the 90s was the result of technological innovation, productivity and globalization; and not Reganomics. The costs of speculation and the limits of global expansion, previously ignored, are now playing into the formula. Don't look for that chapter of history to repeat itself anytime soon.
The economy IS the real issue, and the rest are fireworks to keep people looking at the sky and not to the ground. The problem with fireworks is that attention span is only so long... and in order to keep attention you need to keep making bigger and brighter blasts. This administration is dealing with urgencies instead of priorities, urgencies mostly of its own making. This is very poor management and stewardship. The game here is to keep us engaged until the next wave hits. Hopefully by then we have not been made ragged.


reply posted on 8-11-2002 @ 04:43 PM by FreeMason

Originally posted by Bout Time
a tax cut to the wealthiest 2% only stimulates their portfolio, not the economy


I've never heard such ignorant people before, THIS is why the economy sucks, because people like you think every penny a business owner makes, should be given to the poor bum working at the laundromat.

I USED to think that way myself, I used to be a CPUSA member (for those of you ignorant enough in politics, and many of you are, that's the Communist Part of USA)

However after debating endlessly why I am right, with people who actually make economics and business their lives...I realized what they REALLY were saying.

It's not a question of who has the money but YES how well the economy is doing...the economy only does well when there is a LOT of reinvestment in the economy BY the government, which means tax cuts and incintives for BUSINESS OWNERS and INVESTORS.....you all live in a socialist dream world. But as I've seen in previous posts...many Socialist nations such as Germany HAVE NO GROWTH!

We are the most prosperous nation on earth, we MUST grow...now I'm sick of hearing these Clinton Lovers...and I think Bush is an idiot...but I'd take a Non-Partisan any day over anyone as long as he is moral, and a Republican over any Democrat, if there is no NP running.

The fact is the DEMOCRATS live in a dream world, and don't realize how disasterous they are to the economy, they make life easier for the working man, and when the Republicans take office after them and the economy starts to go to hell, THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE FIRST TO POINT THE FINGER....even though it is THEIR fault, and anyone, especially you Bout Time who'd say it's NOT Clinton's fault this round, should review HOW we had 0 deficite.

Don't you know the US Budget is available on line? Maybe you should read it for once.

Sincerely,
no signature


reply posted on 8-11-2002 @ 04:54 PM by FreeMason
LOL ORIONSIRUS!!!!!!

If it wouldn't help US for Saddam or Ossama Bin Laden to admit who they REALLY hate...they'd tell you it is ALL Clinton's fault.

Need we discuss the Pharmecudical plant he purposely targeted? The reinstating of routine bombings of Iraq, which if you don't know...the Arab nations have a loose coalition much like the Confederate States of America did, and bombing the second most influential "States" of this coalition is NOT a very popular move.

Because of Clinton we pulled out our UN inspectors "for reasons of danger" and refused to send them back in after complaining that we couldn't inspect, and after Saddam said "fine you can come back"

I'm sorry but I've seen Saddams soldiers....there are two basic units "suicide units" and "regulars"

The suicide units just have bombs strapped to them "yes that's a real threat" *rolls eyes*
and the regulars have NO! regular miltiary left....Saddam has at most 40 long ranged missles that can reach only to Israel at most (and of course Israel IS the real reason they all hate us)

Saddam has enough for ONE punch, we aren't even sure he's got that much....and Clinton has done a wonderful job of bombing such a nation.

Just because the LIBERAL media doesn't post every little missle that blows something up, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There have been DAILY bombings in Iraq since 1998....mostly over the no-fly zones.

We have decimated the nation well during the clinton administration, so don't be blaming all this on the Bushs...

Sincerely,
no signature


reply posted on 8-11-2002 @ 05:33 PM by Bout Time
Originally posted by FreeMason
I think Bush is an idiot...but I'd take a Non-Partisan any day over anyone as long as he is moral


I knew there was something that I remembered liking about you, thanks for spelling it out for me!
My undergraduate is in Computer Science, and while I did not finish ( maybe someday) I did attend The Wharton Business School. I've owned my own practice since 1993, with a client base and service targeted to the Fortune 1000 ( IT Engagements)
So please don't confuse my critique of poor apllication of fiscal management with socialist sympathies...how did you get THERE ANYWAY!?!?!
On economic stimulus: I see these companies daily, I sell to these companies daily, I get my expense account raped regularly by members of these companies. I know what the business climate was in 1990, under Bush I, how it was dramatically improved under Clinton 4 years later, and I see how it's been in the last 18 months: we're at the valley of this roller coaster for sure!
I am not a Democrat or Republican. I do favor the Dem point of aid to the economy though: a targeted tax cut to households making uner $150K, extending unemployment insurance coverage, and collection of taxes from corporations who were previously registerd in the US -took an out of country registry-yet continue the same business in the US.
I'm all for incentives for business owners, but right now the way it's happening under Bush, is that it's targeted to large Corporations as corporate welfare and most importantly, it's not given with conditions. I think it's extremely immoral and unjust for the Federal gov. to lay millions on a corporation and for that corporation to turn around and lay off thousands of workers.I also don't like this wave of Union busting. It's wrong. A union is a working partner to the companies well being.
Republican fiscal policy, when it goes hardcore into 'trickle down' mode like it's in now, is utterly horrible. It follows the same 'death spiral' fault as Communism: the theory only works if those at the Top aren't greedy.
The Gov. pumping money into the economy devalues the dollar and causes inflation. The economy is best served when everyone has discretionary income; THAT gets invested, homes are built, cars are purchased, trips are taken, etc.
A feeling of health in the economy makes everybody spend.

[Edited on 8-11-2002 by Bout Time]
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