US votes rigged as hell, no democracy here!!!

I think it is safe to say at this point that the election of 2002 lacks any credibility at this point. Too many "mistakes", too many malfunctions, too many missing documents, too many dirty tricks, all combine to destroy the illusion that the results to be announced have any basis other than in wishful thinking by those in control of the vote counting process. Certainly the sudden abandonment of the VNS exit polls suggests that the actual polling results are so far out of alignment with the desired results that the media predictions had to be shut down.

The change in the Senate had no effect on the war. Too many Democrats had caved in on the war to change that outcome. The numerical shift is to small to suggest a popular mandate, although no doubt Bush will try to claim there is one. But in truth, no matter what the outcome was, the sheer volume of voting problems, whether accident or malice, renders this election wholly untrustworthy. There is no way any thinking American can assume that the announced results of this election in any way accurately reflect the wishes of the people. It's a fraud, a total fraud! The only contest was whose vote riggers were better. The capture of the Senate by the GOP is overshadowed by the object lesson that the American people no longer have any voice in the government at all. Voters are merely required decorations used to conceal election fraud.

www.talion.com...

www.pbcommercial.com.../2002/October/22-2390-NEWS1.TXT

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.voxnyc.com...

Do not bother replying with posts like "yeah but why don't I see this on CNN or MSNBC that elections are rigged" or I will slap you

There's always mistakes. In my area it seems some voting center can't keep enough ballots on hand. more and more people vote, which is great. The touchpad booths in my suburb are quite nice. In Florida, Dade county I think, (where there were quite a bit of mistakes in 2000) there were international organizations monitoring the elections, as well as media from Japan and Russia. They all said everything went went great. This according to NPR. Nothing is imperfect and I can not believe that the election is w/ out credibility as the Dems would be filing law suit after law suit if they thought there was a chance they could get away with it. But, think what you wish.

[Edited on 7-11-2002 by Bob88]

LoL NWO why can't you just accept that in the long run, people hate democrats?

No one wants those sniveling peckers in office, all they do is take from the middle class and give to themselves and the immigrants, which in turn makes our economy suck and makes the common AMERICAN suffer.

Democratic party hides behind a veil of equality, but every decent person knows that Blacks would be better off voting republican, they just can't afford it in the immediate time period.

Reason being is Republicans understand that Communism sucks, and socialism is not much better, and there fore they realize the need to reinvest in our economy.

Heil to republicans, I think it's a landslide victory, the first thing they want to do is remove the taxation on Dividends...which will be a sever help to our free economy, allowing many to become more involved in partial ownership.

The stinking democrats forgot there is such a thing as partial ownership, which is what they want you to think because they want total ownership, why would they want the black man having a few hundred or thousand shares of a stock, when they can throw a few tax payer bucks at him and shut him up?

Sincerely,
no signature

I don't think you really know in what deep # the US economy is due to your republicans? The veil still hasn't been lifted from before your eyes??

LoL you idiot, those economic problems are a direct result from the Clinton administration, maybe you should take a remedial economic class, one of the first things they'd teach you is that any economic problems is a direct result of previous administrations. Much like Hoover, he had nothing to do with the depression and yet was blamed for it completely.

Get your facts strait.

And clinton's administration was 8 years of Sucking the economy dry for all it was worth, just so he could make a hay-penny in positive deficite, which is all but spent now any ways....

Real prosperity comes from growth or cycling the economy, something democrats haven't really even thought of...but Republicans just naturally are good with.

Sincerely,
no signature

Yeah but why don't I see this on CNN or MSNBC that elections are rigged ?

When you know the Democrats, you understand why the peoples votes for the Republicans.

I like to see crying dems.They're so funny.

The USA did the good choice.I hope the EU will follow them !

Anyway, this topic had to be in the "political " forum. Of course, in a leftist mind,voting Rep, it's a terrorist action.


[Edited on 7-11-2002 by ultra_phoenix]

Everyone, and that means EVERYONE, has the right to vote in a democratic society. There need not be mistakes, incompitence is never a good enough excuse.

Fraud is an entirely different matter, it seems funny to me that many don't seem to care about it enough. In the land of the free, surely it should be of the upmost importance...

I'm agree with you FD.

That's why I did this topic :

xmb.abovetopsecret.com...

The economy is on the rebound.Its the European Nations economy that is on the slide.Germany has 10% unemployment.And Germany's president has predicted a gloomy forcast for the next couple of years.

FD, once an area not to far from me ran out of ballots and a jet flew some in from the state capitol, the were replenished within an hour. Ironic hearing some Europeans talking about economy. Didn't I read that Berlin in Germany has a 42 BILLION dollar debt - not to mention the low unemployment nyeff just mentioned or that Germany hasn't seen any economic growth the past ten years or so. Even in this recession we're still seeing economic growth. Here's a few things being reported today:

For the 12 months ending September, productivity grew at a 5.3 percent rate, the strongest showing since the 12 months ending in the third quarter of 1983.

Eventually, this will lead to lower unemployment. Nor do I think our economy is really 'that' bad. Housing is going crazy people have put their money into bonds instead of stocks. If you've been around long enough you know these things come and go. Hopefully this will be like every other cycle and that fact that we're still seeing bright spots indicates to me that it's a normal cycle.
Illuminati-NWO, you're calling the kettle black.

Funny, since when is everyone entitled to vote?
In the beginning of this nation, only those who had a stake in the nation voted. Of course, since there is a party that thrives on taking from the producers and giving it to non-producers, they need everyone to vote.

America seems to have said that they aren't buying the crap. The democratic party has been taken over by the far-left and that is plain for all to see, and it see, and it seems the majority acted upon that.

Figuring the average contribution to the republican campaign is $50.00 whereas the democrats rely on the big money, yet the repubs out collect them, I'd say it says alot about where the people stand.

Night after night the alphabet news shows try and convince us that the left is "mainstream" or "center", but by looking at who is snapping up the viewing public (Fox), it appears that, once again, we aren't buying it.

Say it again, conservation-minded people are a minority. It doesn't make it anymore factual, but say it if it makes you feel better. The party that seems to be the home of the conservatives at this point in politics picked up the majority of the Senate, held the House, and did it in the mid-term elections while a conservative president was sitting. Nothing else need be said.

Ah-hem...

(First, while I'm neither a fan, nor hater of Clinton politics, I liked slick-Willie... he seemed like the first president in a long time who really enjoyed being President... there's an interesting quality to that... like he's someone you could enjoy spending an hour with at the pub.)

Now...

What exactly makes you lay the blame for current economic situations on any presidential administration?

(I have an answer, but I'd like to hear yours first.)

I don't think a return to allowing only white males over 21 to vote would help the nation. Everyone has a stake in the nation. the problem is that many people find it easier to let politicians decide the future, than to take responsibility for the country.

Most people understood Thomas' comment to mean "equity holders." People who own property or corporate share.

In reality, should people feeding 100% of the public teat have say in how fat and juicy they want their teat?

No, I don't mean that only white males over 21, I mean those who own a stake as in property-owners, those who are penalized with taxes that not only support what the constitution dictates be supported but also the huge social programs that are not allowed by the constitution. I realize that to bring the constitution up in the argument at this late date of the nation is rather moot, but there are plenty of voters that want to know what they can get from the government and the taxpayers rather than to guide the nation into a stronger direction.

The point I was making, as well, is that the idea that everyone has the right to vote is false. The general population, yes, but everyone specifically, no.

While it shouldn't be of age white males only of course, the fact is still that it isn't an individual right to vote. Insane people in a mental ward shouldn't be given a quarter and a lift to the polls to cast an uniformed vote. Is that a right?

[Edited on 7-11-2002 by Thomas Crowne]

taken over this board!!

So the dems are now the real problem?

Funny, how everyone forgets the 12 years of recession and inflation that coincided with the Reagan & Bush-daddy 3 term fiasco!!

Lets see here:

> The largest budget deficit EVER, IN THE HISTORY OF THE US of A!!!

> The highest unemployment rate during a 3 term run by one party.

> The largest disparity EVER between the haves (Republican glad-handers) and the have-nots (the average American who makes less than $25000 per year and has no health care or retirement fund thanks to the Republican business owners who SCREAM "Buy American", yet outsource their entire businesses to Malaysia, China, and Taiwan).

The Illuminati are bringing their final phase into fruition, creating the new thirdworld version of the US of A. Once their vision is fully in place:

> your union will no longer exist, driven to extinction due to a lack of any real jobs.

> your American dream will need to be exported to some foriegn country to find a job close to the one you may have now or you'll have to settle for the choice of that tele-marketing job or flipping burgers at McOstrichburgers.

> your parents will be herded into a retirement goulag where they will be forced to work until they drop and die, essentially saving the state the extra 20 to 30 years of monetary support.

So y'all just yuck it up at the expense of any true democracy, and in a few years we'll see where your redneck rightwing
philosophies have taken us as a people.

I saw someone mention a need for others to take economics courses at your local CC but I would suggest taking some history courses as well, since our current administration appears to have been sleeping (or snorting coke?) while this class was in session.

It's sounds old and cliche bit it is all too true: "Those who fail to learn the failings of others historically, are doomed to repeat their fate".

So go right ahead you rightwingers, blunder forth blindly and do whatever ole dumbass er.. uh... Dubbya tells you too.
Once again we're led to the dumbing down of America and in this instance its the idiot in the Whitehouse who is the worst offender.

But keep this in mind for the next presidential election;
the number of registered democrats in the USA is nearly 10 times those registered as republicans.

All the dems need is a real candidate that presents an alternative to this centrist psuedo-conservative drivel that has been our "choices" since Bill left.

Another quip comes to mind as well, "be careful what you wish for"!

Free Mason - "Heil to republicans" & "those economic problems are a direct result from the Clinton administration"
I always said John McCain should have been President - that way you wouldn't be throwing up the 'Zig heil' to the Republican party as it sits now. When exactly do you consider responsibility will start with George, 2010? There has been NO REMEDY given to the economic picture by this administration: a tax cut to the wealthiest 2% only stimulates their portfolio, not the economy. Repeal of the estate tax ( or death tax for sinister effect) only benefits million dollar estates. An SEC chairman who was Ivan Boesky's lawyer, at a time when investors are looking for faith in the market so they can invest, does not help. Nor does his appointment of a Corporate Accounting cop who sat on the audit board of a company that cooked the books AND is not an accountant. Luckily, I think they both are gone, but unfortunately, the SEC is now adrift without a rudder.
Basic macro economics: protectionism kills free trade and starts retaliatory measures. We need the world markets open to sell our goods, not closed off as pay back to Bush's policy of using Corporate Welfare to protect our industries which make some nations key exports priced out of consideration. It stupid and we have enough examples of how it does not work in Europe & Asia to be doing it here.

ultra_phoenix - "Yeah but why don't I see this on CNN or MSNBC that elections are rigged ?" You mean AOL-Time Warner & Microsoft - General Electric - nope they spent BILLIONS propping up and covering for the Bush regime, why would they blow it now?

Bob88 - "For the 12 months ending September, productivity grew at a 5.3 percent rate, the strongest showing since the 12 months ending in the third quarter of 1983. Eventually, this will lead to lower unemployment. Nor do I think our economy is really 'that' bad." - Torture numbers and they'll admit to anything! False. It won't lead to lower unemployment. That number has been on an upward vector for some time, yet 5000 more jobs were lost in both Sept. & Oct. The numbers indicate, in simple terms, that companies are doing more with less, a good thing in general, because it's forced evaluation of redundancy and a streamlining of cost to market. The indicator to watch for is Capital Expenditures - when a company buys new equipment & services. That means that inventories have been sold off and new orders necessitate the purchases. Housing is another misleading indicator: the segment relevant to the vast majority of Americans, the $150K -$200K, has actually dropped significantly, and what is driving the new housings starts is the $350K+ segments. Simply, affordable housing is not growing, luxury housing is. The tradesman carpenters are doing well, relatively, but how many million dollar home developments can you make?

Thomas Crowne - "the average contribution to the republican campaign is $50.00" - Yeah, uh-huh. Not even in the realm of reality to respond to, but it does look pretty sitting next to the tooth fairy fable, no? I think the Pharmaceutical Industry & the Insurance Industry out spent the Dem fund raisers by themselves! But the Pharma industry did get to write the House prescription drug plan and the Insurance industry did get billions of corporate welfare assurances, so I guess it was money well spent by them.

10 times more dems than GOP? That sounds a little high.

The question is why are all the dems voting for republicans??????

I think that we are crazy to adopt electronic vote tabulation measures that DON'T include a paper trail receipt per vote, which Touch Screens do not.
The possibility of Hacked results is way, way too high.

Spin sanity - Right wing propaganda's life blood!
Dems lost the Senate, but the gains were greater than the losses ( House, Senate, Govenors combined).
Being a political mercenary, I do have to align with one side in a fight, though I don't buy all that they stand for: you folks know I wanted McCain for president & I voted Pataki here in NY.
But the Dems do need a Icon with a strong voice - I hate Gephart and though I admire Daschle's accomplishments & military record, he is just too genteel.