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poison in our skies

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posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 11:17 AM
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Littlebird

Could you please explain what horror is in all those links?

A little bit of information would be really good.



posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 12:41 PM
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littlebird,
half of your links are broken

and the other half just contain pictures that are probably taken around an airport

there is nothing in the way of real information given, all conspiracy with no substance



posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 12:46 PM
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*Goes back to sleep*

Posting a ton of links with no comments to go with them doesnt make for a very good thread. Please explain to us this horror.



posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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Strange, I had an email from my Mum last night about a BBC story yesterday on a similar topic. See link below:

eveningnews24.co.uk

This is just one instance. The report my Mum saw also mentioned other tests at ground level in Bedfordshire and across into East Anglia where vans travelled spraying from top vents as they went.
This is probably just the tip of the iceberg and it makes me wonder just what other "tests" were carried out on the population, and how many tests continue today.

Saddam should not be alone on the gallows


[edit on 7-11-2006 by Britguy]

Mod Edit: Link format edited. Please review this post.

[edit on 8-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 03:29 PM
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If you want to confirm for yourselves all you have to do is look up at the sky.

Two things to look for.

1) Contrail. Real contrails disappear a short distance after the airliner.

2) Chemtrails do not disappear. They span the entire length of visible sky and then disapate into a weird haze.

Sometimes if your lucky enough you might be able to get a camera shot of both aircraft in the same vicinity. One with a normal contrail and one with the long chemtrail. I have seen this a few times before and it's just awful.

One more interesting note is during the Martin Government of Canada this issue was brought up a few times in Parliament, how the people have been complaining of US overflights of Canada for the reason of chemtrailing.

Sadly Bush's boy Harper and his gov't doesn't really look into these things.

I think chemtrail have something to do with birdflu. They're weakening our immune systems so they can iniate the next phase. Good thing I smoke weed and exercise. I have never felt more healthy in my life.



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 10:02 PM
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As there is no commentary in the OP and most of the chemtrails/contrails are discussed in Military & Government Projects, I am moving this to the more appropriate thread.



posted on Nov, 8 2006 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by soundaddicted

1) Contrail. Real contrails disappear a short distance after the airliner.

2) Chemtrails do not disappear. They span the entire length of visible sky and then disapate into a weird haze.




I bet you spend your days in high school thinking science is for geeks and nerds.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 12:56 PM
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Come on now, people. The is a real phenomena. Those last, few dying voices denying this phenomena are quickly fading from the field of this argument.

To avoid, however, a tennis match of photo interpretation, I will simply point out some irrefutable items of interest and fact, which are in themselves, enough to quash this argument once and for all; i.e., that aircraft are spraying "new" streams over our heads that are simply not the same condensation trails that have existed for decades.

One obvious question to ask is, Why are so many people around the world asking about aircraft streams?

The failing debunkers keep referring to ice crystals, condensation and other distractions, such as arguing what type of aircraft are creating these streams. Too bad none of this discounts the wealth of information that is driving this phenomena.

I've since moved on from photos that, apparently, are open to interpretation (although, never in my life did commercial aircraft streams spread across the sky and block out the sun) and onto the material often collected under these streams around the globe, and to documentation and programs of this nature that are all easily verifiable.

Although, how someone can look at photos provided here, and here, and suggest that these are normal trails is mind-boggling. The second link was to Tom Bearden's site, wherein Bearden proffers numerous photos of clouds, which he calls "anomalies". Can't argue with him there. Here's another great link.

For starters, it's impossible to look at photos such as these and shrug them off as typical aircraft condensation. How anyone can do this is beyond me. It just points to an absolute denial in the face of a clearly unusual phenomena. This inexplicable and untenable denial proves that belief systems are more powerful than fact.

This first link shows weblike material collected by a witness and his son that is nearly identical to material others have collected around the world. This material has been collected by citizens expressing serious health concerns. In one case, testing on the material was "terminated" - and it was a water sample. Why would a simple test on a water sample be terminated? This stonewalling is part of what is fueling citizens seriously concerned about this.

Ineffective debunkers fall back on the process of ice crystal and condensation formation, which is all well and good - except when it is used as their sole argument against this phenomena, and to the obvious exclusion of unrelated facts that are provided to them. They also talk about the "types" of craft used, or suggest that such an operation would require hundreds or thousands of individuals. These are valid points, but do not act as evidence against this phenomena. Unfortunately, the debunkers more often engage in insulting, off topic, uninformed and general statements rather than disputing the facts provided.

Some of the debunkers are pilots, incredulous that this could go on unnoticed. Here is a link to an airline mechanic, who claims to have stumbled upon a spray system, and the threats that proceeded this discovery. An equally frightened airline manger sends a similarly disturbing letter here.

Here is a letter from Alexander Cuppett, US Army & Action Officer, the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Retired), to John P. Jumper, Commander, Air Combat Command. The letter expresses Cuppett's outrage at spraying engaged through the "Treaty of Open Skies" (TOS).

Here is a link to the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session on Thursday, November 18, 1999, to the House of Commons that includes the following Petition:


Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, over 500 residents of the Espanola area have signed a petition raising concern over possible government involvement in what appears to be aircraft emitting visible aerosols. They have found high traces of aluminum and quartz in particulate and rain water samples. These concerns combined with associated respiratory ailments have led these Canadians to take action and seek clear answers from this government.


Here is a link to the "Air Force 2025" program that includes the following language:


Other cloud seeding operations cause a developing thunderstorm to intensify over the target, severely limiting the enemy's capability to defend.


Here are some endorsements from high level U.S. officials.

Here is a patent for "Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding". Here is a patent for " Broadcast dissemination of trace quantities of biologically active chemicals" (is that scary?).

Here is a link to Bill S. 517, or the "Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005".

Here is a link to Bill H. R. 2977, or "The Space Preservation Act of 2001". The wording in this Bill includes the following:


(ii) chemtrails; (iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems; (iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons; (v) laser weapons systems;….(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.


If I see anyone still confused, or unbelieving of the existence of such a program as this I can only assume that that individual is a disinformation agent, because naught but someone on a payroll could be totally and completely bereft the common sense to recognize this as a reality.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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You are linking to crazy carnicoms letters from a fake mechanic? I dont know who wrote those, but its obviously not from a real mechanic. I think those were long ago discredited

Cloud seeding is totally different than what chemmies describe in most of their chemtrail conspiracies, unless maybe the cloud seeding planes have reptilian pilots and are releasing AIDS and SARS. I know more about cloud seeding than anyone here.

So if you find quartz in water or air, it means it comes from airplanes? Let me guess, if you think there is barium in the air, you think the same thing. You should test the air in your house, maybe you will find carbon dioxide, which you find a way to attribute to planes. You people think anything out there comes from airplanes.

Your method is the same as every other chemmie out there. You thought up a bunch of unrelated, unsubstantated nonsense, and hope that some of it sticks. Its just a hodgepodge of things that by themselves mean nothing. But putting up a number of those doesnt make any of them mean anything more.

You do realize how silly you look, when you use that standard argument that anyone who disagrees with you must be on goverment payroll as an agent??

[edit on 9-11-2006 by firepilot]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 03:10 PM
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I'm not even sure a response is warranted here.

What kind of a statement is this (below)?



You are linking to crazy carnicoms letters from a fake mechanic? I dont know who wrote those, but its obviously not from a real mechanic. I think those were long ago discredited


It starts with a derisive, insulting comment about a sincere individual, and makes a claim, the verity of which has not been proven, and further isn't backed up with anything - it's speculative.

You don't, in fact, have to be a pilot, or understand how condensation forms to be able to read the word "chemtrail" in this government [url=http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html]_/url]. I would suggest that these facts exist despite, and irrespective of the process of condensation, or the existence of any particular type of aircraft - which has as much relevance as your comment(?) below,



...reptilian pilots and are releasing AIDS and SARS


Also, your comment (imm. below) is all the proof I need to determine just how blinded you are by your own unassailable reasoning,



I know more about cloud seeding than anyone here.


Really? I'd like to see that proof forthcoming (although, don't take that as an invitation, because I really don't).

I would also dispute your comment (imm. below), by saying you are dismissing government documents and military official testimony as "unrelated, unsubstantiated nonsense".



Your method is the same as every other chemmie out there. You thought up a bunch of unrelated, unsubstantated nonsense, and hope that some of it sticks.


The statement (below) is your own, and doesn't reflect, or dispute the specific assertions being made,



So if you find quartz in water or air, it means it comes from airplanes?


Your further statement (below) is simply confused. I've cited government and military documents and programs, any one of which could be responsible for this unusual spraying.



Its just a hodgepodge of things that by themselves mean nothing. But putting up a number of those doesnt make any of them mean anything more.


You also said,



...You do realize how silly you look...


Do you realize how silly you look?




[edit on 9-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]

[edit on 9-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by OnTheDeck

It starts with a derisive, insulting comment about a sincere individual,


Oh, please. Cliff Carnicom is nuttier than a fruitcake. He's on a par with Nancy Leidner.

Did you ever read the pages on his web site where he gives himself a home root canal?




posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Actually I will put up my messages against yours, my knowledge of aviation, meteorology, science against yours. And yes, cloud seeding is about trying to seed moisture rich cloud, not about large trails over a clear sky. That contradiction seems to escape most chemmies

If you think rational thought is silly, then by all means. And yes, you can find plenty of chemmies who believe its orbs, ufos, reptilians, etc that are involved. I am sure we can find plenty of links to that, even on carnicoms board.

And speaking of carnicom, maybe he is sincere, and I would say he is a bit mentally unhinged. You can find picture on there from his do-it-yourself home dentistry, and his claims that chemtrails slow the speed of the earths rotation.

And again, care to tell us why contrails can not persist? Tell us what the temperatures up there are and what happens to liquid water.

Still waiting for a sampling of jet exhaust that shows your spraying conspiracy.

Do you think KLM, Southwest, United, Virgin, are spraying you?

I dont need a bunch of links to do my arguing for me, I can do it fine by myself. And yes, claims your opponents must be paid government agents is silly and some delusion of self importance.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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So Carnicom prefers home dentistry. Van Gogh (although this is marginally related) cut off his own ear - that doesn't mean he was an imbecile.

Either way, Carnicom's site alone is an encyclopedia of knowledge. And it is not just his own speculation - he has a wealth of photographs of this material, which he performs numerous tests on. It's also interesting that he is also studying ELF waves...Anyway, he also provides links to credible outside sources...

What I presented does not rely on Carnicom's observations alone to validate it. But the guy is sincere, and if an agent/disinformant were going to try to discredit someone it would have to be him, simply because he's tenacious - he's one of the primary figures in this information campaign - and also because he is researching not only chemtrails, but their relationship to the Earth's electromagnetic field, ionization, and ELF/VLF (Extremely Low Frequency and Very Low Frequency, respectively) radiation.

His studies, and assertions contend the existence of these waves as originating from an artificial source, and that they could be used in conjunction with an atmospheric program (i.e. HAARP) to effect weather, as well as human subjects. He includes that,


Six significant effects or mechanisms of ELF radiation upon human health have been identified through initial research on this topic, including but not limited to:
1. human mental functioning, influence and control, 2. disruption of cellular metabolism, 3. suppression of the immune system, 4. genetic modification and/or DNA effects, 5. influence upon free radical formation, 6. cyclotronic resonance


I haven't read all of it, but if you were involved in a program such as this, you'd probably want this guy to quit it. Anyway...You have to give the guy credit for the work he's doing; his diligence and tenacity.

If you want a meteorologist's point of view, you can go here. He discusses bizarre weather phenomena (including chemtrails) like unexplained "holes" (although, all you'd need to explain those is knowledge of the technology creating them), and a Russian ionization program (that is clearly at work in the U.S.) of making, or suppressing rain.

If you want a pilot's perspective you should read here - Part 1 and Part 2.

In any event, the fact that something bizarre is going on in our skies is an understatement.


[edit on 9-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]

[edit on 9-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:22 PM
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You are still at it, bringing up HAARP, ELF, anything else hoping to link it to chemtrails, hoping it is evidence of chemtrails, which is is not.

Doesnt matter how sincere you think Carnicom is, I think unfortunately he is in some state of mental decline.

Good ol' Scott Stevens, still stealing pics from airliners.net.

Wax in the fuel? Ahem...that would quickly clog things like fuel nozzles and fuel controllers, not to mention it goes thru a VERY HOT RUNNING ENGINE! Being open minded does not have to mean little silly theories camp out in your head.

Tell us exactly which pictures on those links do you think are chemtrailing aircraft.



posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 05:15 AM
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] They also talk about the "types" of craft used, or suggest that such an operation would require hundreds or thousands of individuals.

Maybe I'm paranoid. But quit referancing to me.

I talk about how the types of planes used, the designs of them, the people involved, instead of seeing something weird in the sky, buying a jump to conclussions mat, then using it.

Two, I have never tried to say chemtrails are fake. All my posts have been saying KLM 777s spraying chemtrails accross the sky is BS and how people make things up from the back of there heads.


except when it is used as their sole argument against this phenomena, and to the obvious exclusion of unrelated facts that are provided to them.

Like two fake, inconsistent emails from so called people in Airlines? Or how spider webs are collected in Jars out of nowhere? Or how Chemtrails only appeared from 1995 onwards


Unfortunately, the debunkers more often engage in insulting, off topic, uninformed and general statements rather than disputing the facts provided.
Mmmmmmm. Since the above was directed at me, I have never once insulted anyone.



Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, over 500 residents of the Espanola area have signed a petition raising concern over possible government involvement in what appears to be aircraft emitting visible aerosols. They have found high traces of aluminum and quartz in particulate and rain water samples. These concerns combined with associated respiratory ailments have led these Canadians to take action and seek clear answers from this government.

That's it again. People jumping to conlussions saying it's Comercial jets doing this. Where is the link?



It starts with a derisive, insulting comment about a sincere individual, and makes a claim, the verity of which has not been proven, and further isn't backed up with anything - it's speculative.

How do you know he was sincere?


Good ol' Scott Stevens, still stealing pics from airliners.net.

lmao.
Disclaimer from A.net

All photos on Airliners.net are copyright protected and may not be used in any way without proper permission. No copyright license, either express or implied, is granted to the user, other than what is stated on the Use Photos page.
.
Looks like them photos are illegal.


Also, please quit calling people who try to disprove chemtrails your stereotypical view of a debunker. I don't think all Conspiracy theorists a bunch lunies now do I?


[edit on 10-11-2006 by PisTonZOR]

[edit on 10-11-2006 by PisTonZOR]

[edit on 10-11-2006 by PisTonZOR]



posted on Nov, 10 2006 @ 10:37 AM
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PisTon, I didn't have you in mind specifically when I wrote anything. My statements with regard to those arguing against this were general statements. My apologies if you felt you were targeted.

I should clarify that I don't have the least bit of ill will toward anyone on these boards. Period. I don't in my life, and that extends to these boards. I may, like everyone, appear heated in my posts, but I got nothing but bonhomie for everyone involved in these disscussions. Even if someone gets personal, that's fine. People are people.

It's too easy to be manipulated by words on a screen. Anyone can type anything they want and come off in all sorts of ways, deliberately - and anonymously. Also, the printed word is very easy to misconstrue. People can seem angrier, or more sarcastic or cynical than they really are. I try to be careful not to come across in a negative way.

I forgot to post a link to the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. Here it is.

PisTOn, I will agree that I've never seen you insult anyone. Even if you did, it's not my place to judge.

As for Carnicom, despite receiving praise for his efforts by a large segment of the alternative community, he sure has taken a beating at the same time...That's up for everyone to decide on their own...

The weather guy has compiled a very persuasive argument, and he has factual information, not to mention his expertise, to back it up. His studies can be backed up by government documentation, and are based in reality.

Carnicom the individual may seem unusual, but the evidence and information he is presenting, when taken on its own, is equally persuasive. But somehow people want to focus attention on the personality involved instead of what they're trying to show you. If you were to follow up on either of these individual's research you would see that they are presenting factually verifiable information.

To anyone interested in these subjects, I would suggest spending your time and energy where it is best served, and that is on the evidence and information being offered.

PisTOn, you said,



Also, please quit calling people who try to disprove chemtrails your stereotypical view of a debunker. I don't think all Conspiracy theorists a bunch lunies now do I?


The dictionary definition of the word "debunker" is written as,


to expose or excoriate (a claim, assertion, sentiment, etc.) as being pretentious, false, or exaggerated


The term is broad, and its use is broad. People advancing the chemtrail conspiracy theory are advancing what some would definitly call "false" or "exaggerated". Ergo, anyone wishing to expose or excoriate (to denounce or berate severely) could be considered a debunker proper.

And "conspiracy theory" is written as,


A theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act


I think we're all conspiracy theorists to one degree or another, whether on these boards or not. It's a broad term, and there are many credible witnesses to events or phenomena considered at one time to be conspiratorial that have later surfaced as fact. It just depends on which one(s) you choose, and further, which ones later surface as fact.

I like the sense of community either way that these boards provide. I live alone and don't have any friends, so this is my only contact with the outside world. I'm kidding. I do think it's cool though that individuals of every stripe are communitcating on these matters and others, and from around the world...

If you are alone and have no friends, well...by reading this you've gained one...

Peace out!



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 01:08 PM
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I have a few sites that are really promoting Orgone energy as an antidote to both chemtrail and cell phone mast radiation.

Here is a statement from one individual in Connecticut (link):


Within two hours of pouring the first gallon of polymer resin and metal shavings , I had three mysterious white planes doing a search pattern over my house along with one orb and a disk craft. Four days later and after the seccond gallon of matrix poured into bucket, I am observing the air being swept clean of EVERYTHING: no contrails from airliners, and when chemtrails arive from the west....bada bing within 20 minutes, gone!


He mentions seeing an orb, as well as what he calls a "disk craft" along with these streams. He also mentions,


I also wish to report that decloaked chemsprayers are or appear to be tandem cubes as reported by others. I have other eye witnesses to the sky events including chemsprayers appearing, dissappearing and decloaked. These silent running white planes are not planes at all in my opinion...


He mentions "tandem cubes" and "cloaked" craft, which is consistent with what has been observed and reported at Orbwar.com. This page shows photos of this in action.

This link also shows the phenomena of orbs accompanying chemtrail streams. (same link)

Here is a link to a site with photos of an invisible (you can use the word "cloaked" if you want) aircraft spraying a stream. I'm sure this is the result of condensation or ice crystals... ... ... NOT (Borat). Conventional aircraft are not invisible, and I challenge anyone to find photos of invisible conventional aircraft (and don't offer a photo of blue sky and say there's a plane hiding there).

Here is a link to a site with a photo of a black beam being aimed right at the Atlantis Space Shuttle in 2001. It looks like it's coming from the vicinity of the moon, but it could actually be originating from a satellite, or far side of the Earth.

This is all just to point out that something bizarre IS going on, we are just on a learning curve to figuring out exactly what it is.

Look at all of the government and military agencies that have visited Carnicom's site (below). The list is over a hundred and probably growing. Is this attention prompted by a conspiracy nutjob? He's getting some serious attention.

1. Desert Research Institute in Nevada (weather modification research institution) (repeat visits)
2. Fort Lewis Army Military Base in the state of Washington (home of special forces air squadron)
3. Lockheed Martin (aviation and space defense contractor) (repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits)
4. Los Alamos National Laboratory (repeat visit)
5. Allergan Pharmaceutical Corporation (Allergy Pharmaceutical Research Company)
6. Alliant Techsystems (Space and Strategic Defense Systems contractor)
7. Raytheon Defense Systems (Defense Contractor) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)
8. BOEING AIRCRAFT COMPANY (100 visits minimum)
9. United States Defense Logistics Agency (supplies and support to combat troops)
10. Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tuscon AZ (home of 355th Wing)(repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits)(repeat repeat repeat visit)
11. Dept of Defense Naval Computer and Telecommunications Area Master Station
12. U.S. Naval Sea Systems Command
13. Western Pacific Region of the Federal Aviation Administration, Lawndale CA. (repeat visit)(repeat visit) (repeat visit)
14. National Aeronautics and Space Administration Langley Research Center (10 visits minimum)

Carnicom notes:


Let it also be noted that United States government computer systems are to be used for official purposes only.


Rense.com has listed the same visitors list - link.

This is a must read article on the subject of chemtrails. It is part of a larger agenda. This article cites very credible outside sources.

This article is just as critical to help get a full picture of what's going on. Very compelling and disturbing read.

I wanted to provide more information on orgone and its uses here. Mind you there may be a verifiable, effective and practical use with regard to aerial spraying and ELF/radio wave radiation, but this subject is somewhat "alternative"; i.e., whether it's meant as disinformation, or to drive people from this technology (I use the term loosely), you will come across some more outrageous claims, such as these devices can counter evil, etc. This is up to you to decide. The proof's in the pudding.

Here is a direct link to an audio file wherein Sherry Shriner (I'll post a link to her site below) mentions that some of the people offering designs for these orgone devices may be offering bogus, or harmful versions of the device. I offer this, because the possibility of being mislead is very real - and I accept that could mean Sherry's version is included in this (I'll link to hers as well).

Sherry's orgone device (link). Sherry's website (link). Many of these are for sale, but there is enough info, including Sherry's site, to build your own.

Orgone on Educate-yourself.org.

Orgone, a brief history.

Here's a link to "CTBusters!". Do these work? If the chemtrails disappear over the device, then it's very possible.

Here is Don Croft's Cloudbuster.

People using Don's CB review it (link).

Orgonise Africa (link)

Put the device and not the person to the test.

[edit on 12-11-2006 by OnTheDeck]



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 11:07 PM
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You are treating those agencies like they are some robotic monolith, instead of seeing them for what they are, which is people just like us. I am sure they look at carnicoms website for a good laugh, back when his site was more active. His message board has about 5 people posting on it now, it looks like.

And of course people occasionally spend time browsing the internet at work. I certainly have, but that doesnt mean my employer is checking up on people.

I would expect them to be curious and look at silly chemtrail websites, after all these websites practically accuse them of attempted murder and trying to kill of lots of people.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by soundaddicted
If you want to confirm for yourselves all you have to do is look up at the sky.

Two things to look for.

1) Contrail. Real contrails disappear a short distance after the airliner.


As anyone who knows anything about meteorology can tell you, it all depends on atmospheric conditions. Sometimes they don't form at all, other times they can last for hours and spread out into sheets of cirrostratus.

Before you invoke a conspiracy you need first to eliminate the mundane.



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