Rumsfeld et al to face War Crimes prosecution?

I find this kinda Amusing. Ok say that there is a trial for Ol man Rums. Lets now say that he is found guilty. Who is going to come get him?

Ohh I see, so it is a might Vs Right issue? Well, I guess, what you fail to see, is that the US is not nearly as strong as you think it is. I told you, and LAmaximus, and Centurion, and the rest of your ilk when the Iraq thing started you were going to get spanked - and you have, repeatedly. What I saw, and you aparently refuse to, is that the American military is designed to go against another army - not a civilisation - and what this Hauge Invasion Act does it put the US right in opposition to everything the civiliased world stands for.

In other words - it is the US Vs the rest of the free and non free world. The US losses this worse than you guys lost Iraq. If you think it wouldn't happen, remember the polls, and Politicians in other countries are just like your own, and when public opinion is so overwhelmingly for War crime charges to be laid against them, the politicans will be forced to listen. Obviously not enough to invade the US, but all there need to be are warrents, and then any country they go to can(And dare I saw will, whether for ethical/moral reasons, or for political gain) take them into custody.

I have no doubt that should Germany(Although I'd love it if Canada did it, heck send them to Hauge via Syria just for good measure) take the lead and do something, there will be major problems world wide - but it is important to not that we did not start this - the US, via Bush did, so should the US go in, then it will literally be the US Vs the rest of the planet, and the simple fact is, you guys can't deal with one enemy very well, let alone 20 or 30. Wake up, before it becomes obvious to everyone what a moe-moe you and your country has become.

You are either with us(The civilised world) or you are against us.

You're living in a different planet if you think the world will somehow unite and independently try, convict and capture a US head of state. That idea would last about two seconds. Also, this might vs. right issue, laws are self imposed restrictions, they are nothing if people do not recognize or enforce them.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
You're living in a different planet if you think the world will somehow unite and independently try, convict and capture a US head of state. That idea would last about two seconds. Also, this might vs. right issue, laws are self imposed restrictions, they are nothing if people do not recognize or enforce them.

*takes deep breath*..OK, see if you can follow this. The world doesn't have to unite. It merely has to recgonize international laws, of which it has already recgonised. The precedent of holding a person wanted for war crimes has already been done.

As for living on a different world - I have no doubt I live in a different world than you do. However, seeing as you still seem to be incapable of seeing the reality of the War, the reality of what has been taken from you and incapable of seeing outside the American envelope; I would say I am living in the "real" world, and you are living in one mainly comprised of Faux news outlooks. So for that - Thank you.

I do however agree, that to do so would be a very dangerous for the "offending" country - UNLESS - it is so overwhelming approved by the populus. It would put them in danger of American response - but then that would put the world against the US. Which would bring about the above scenerio where by we all lose.

All because so many Americans are just too dumb to see what has happened to their country. Remember - september 12, 2001 - the entire world was with you. September 12, 2006 and just about the entire world distrusts your government(Which puts the rest of the world firmly ahead of many AMericans in intellect). That didn't happen because of terrorists, nor did it happen because of any outside force. It happened because of decisions, concious decsions, from your commander and cheif - the decider. Be happy, despite all of this crap the world has had to deal with because of moron(s), the average American isn't disliked - but those that have done this have to be brought to trail. It would be nice if American could grow a pair, but failing that, the world will, even if the entire world doesn't - some country will.

Oh please, save you speech for someone else, I have no interest in it. If you are so desperate as believe that something will come out of this circus go right ahead, but I can assure you of the opposite. But I found this point interesting.

Remember - september 12, 2001 - the entire world was with you.

Interesting, the "world" (except for those parts that were cheering of course) was with us, but when we go on the attack suddenly they look down on us? Some friends, you can tell they are real concerned about our interests.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I'll just say it again, no court outside the US, even the ICC has authority or power over US elected officials.

I would imagine that Hitler felt the same invincibility.

Too bad Nurenburg proved him wrong. And even though he took the easy way out, his cronies still stood trial.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Oh please, save you speech for someone else, I have no interest in it. If you are so desperate as believe that something will come out of this circus go right ahead, but I can assure you of the opposite. But I found this point interesting.

Remember - september 12, 2001 - the entire world was with you.

Interesting, the "world" (except for those parts that were cheering of course) was with us, but when we go on the attack suddenly they look down on us? Some friends, you can tell they are real concerned about our interests.

It isn't a speach - it is the truth, so I am not surprized you have no interst in it.

I know..poor america. You illegally invade a country based on lies, Kill untold innocent people. Start secret prisions and torture people and all of a sudden YOU become the bad guys? It is utterly unfair that you should have to act like civilised people isn't it?
/sarcasm

Im forced to agree with Westpoint. The only way they could enforce this decision is through war. They could nab him if he left the country, but they would have to wait until he was out of office. If they nabbed a government member while he was in office, it would be considered an act of war.

It is not arrogance, it is fact.

Originally posted by ShadowEyes

I would imagine that Hitler felt the same invincibility.

Too bad Nurenburg proved him wrong. And even though he took the easy way out, his cronies still stood trial.

well, as westpoint said, that was after a world war. No one is goin g to fight a war against the US for a bunch of government officials who will be out of office shortly anyway.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Remember - september 12, 2001 - the entire world was with you.

Interesting, the "world" (except for those parts that were cheering of course) was with us, but when we go on the attack suddenly they look down on us? Some friends, you can tell they are real concerned about our interests.

WestPoint23,
Yes, most the of world was siding with us on Sept. 12,2001, they were very upset that 9/11 happened,... why wouldn't they be when there were people from all walks of life and nationale inside those towers and airplanes.

As far as Germany bringing war crime charges against Rummy............. I think they should get Bush &Co while their at it too

they lied to congress, they lied to the UN, they lied to the Citizens of the US, they lied to the world, they have murdered almost 3,000 of our troops, maimed over more of our troops than they murdered, and they murdered Thousands of Iraqi citizens over their Lies, and when I say "they" I'm talking about Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Rice and the rest of those responsible for using/forcing our troops into this mess in Iraq.

Those people all deserve the same fate that Saddam will be getting ,and I say IF they are stupid enough to leave the US for any reason when these charges are brought against them and they get caught,............ good, and good-riddens to them as a lot of us won't shed a tear over them as our tears are for our troops, their families and the innocent Iraqi citizens that did not ask for or deserve this attack which has killed babies,children, people that live in fear.

As for the election tomorrow............. I hope and pray that the Democrats take both House and Senate then start the impeachment of those war criminals that has held our nation and Iraq hostage all this time

Originally posted by GiantPanda1979
I find this kinda Amusing. Ok say that there is a trial for Ol man Rums. Lets now say that he is found guilty. Who is going to come get him?

Who's to say some Iraqis won't form their own little hunting party and seek them out just as Wiesenthal did for the Nazi's. They are still actively looking to this day. As a matter of fact they are trying to have 3 extradited this week for Nazi war crimes. The only person that will have any protection after office will be the POTUS. The rest will just be joe civilian. Hey you never know.

Take the Rummy litmus test:



Although many know Rummy resigning is just throwing a sacrificial lamb on the fire to temporarily appease the masses, when the whole circus on the hill needs a spring cleaning.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Im forced to agree with Westpoint. The only way they could enforce this decision is through war. They could nab him if he left the country, but they would have to wait until he was out of office. If they nabbed a government member while he was in office, it would be considered an act of war.

It is not arrogance, it is fact.

Xphiles, Well we wouldn't want a war now would we? Opps, already have one thanks to these boobs. In fact, possibly the only thing that would bring the majority back on the US's side would be if they themself's booted him and his clan out of office - but that would require resolve, will power and a unified America - but that has been disolved into this partisan "With us or against us" crap that firmly divided your once great country and attempted to divide the world(once again thanks to this cronies). Thankfully most of the world see's more than the average American does and it didn't stand up after questioning the logic of it. Although, to be fair it is easier to question something when you are not being called a terrorist sympathizer, or a traitor, or other such nonesense - that after 5 years removed it was those people that were right. The US did do something that is a conflict of international law, shamed it's legacy and really should be held accountable for it. If not for the sake of justice or moral or ethical reasons - then for the reputation and legacy of the country known as America.

If the arguement is that without a gun to force them, that force is the only method that change can be dealt - then I hope you understand that is the exact same justification as the terrorists that the US claims to be against.

Isn't that absolutely delicious irony?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Gear, I don't think you understood my earlier post. NOTHING will happen to any US elected officials because of what some court in Germany says and or does. Get it? They have no authority over us nationals and no one will enforce or recognizes this decision.

But on the other side of the coin,its just fine for the US to kidnap people from just about any country in the world,then lock them away and torture them.Without a trail.

Real fair rules,eh?

looks as if they shot themselves in the foot....

Dang one liners...but actions speak louder than words and this tops them all!!

[edit on 11/7/2006 by Matyas]

If Rumseld doesn't deserve, at the very LEAST, to be removed from office.... why has he offered his resignation MULTIPLE times?

Even HE knows he's a war criminal.

Silicone Synapse has put his or her finger on the essential hypocrisy of a country that will happily kidnap nationals of any other country but is absolutely against any of their own being tried in another country for crimes they committed there.

And if Rumsfeld can't go anywhere in Europe as a result of this decision, that, in my opinion, is a good thing.

That aside, this thread is going pretty much as I expected it to, with the same voices supporting the might-is-right plus American exceptionalism side of the argument.

Rumsfeld's a war crim. Get used to it.

Originally posted by rich23
Silicone Synapse has put his or her finger on the essential hypocrisy of a country that will happily kidnap nationals of any other country but is absolutely against any of their own being tried in another country for crimes they committed there.

That's not true, US citizens can be tried and extradited to another country if they have committed a crime there, except if they are military service members. Due to varying laws and punishments in different parts of the world all US military personnel are tried by the US to ensure equal rights and punishment for all members.

I find it interesting that, in light of this discussion, Saddam has been sentenced to death this week. Don't the warmongers in office in the US see how easily the shoe can be on the other foot? I'm sure Saddam never dreamed he would be brought up on charges, and sentenced to death, for ordering the murder of all those Iraqi citizens.

Don't Bush and Co. realize that they are standing on the edge of a cliff that has a similar fate awaiting them at the bottom? We have forced regime change in this country every four or eight years, depending. I believe the American people have started to see through all the lies perpetrated on them by this administration, and they are starting to resent all the needless death and destruction being done in their name. It is entirely possible that Bush will be impeached, and the rest of his gang prosecuted here in America for their crimes. I hope they all end up in prison for life.

Let's see what happens at the polls today.

It is entirely possible that Bush will be impeached, and the rest of his gang prosecuted here in America for their crimes. I hope they all end up in prison for life.

Anything is possible, but not everything is probable.

Let's see what happens at the polls today.

Nothing too exciting, Senate and House leadership wont change, though we will get some new faces.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by WestPoint23]