Did the Separation of Church & State Kill the World?

The Infinitely Great God created each and every atom (and other particles) in our bodies. Yet many governments in the world would attribute this to one human theory (evolution). For the monetaristic nations of the world, it is like God granting a loan of a quintillion dollars and seeing a repayment of zero cents for Eternity.

Go to service of God and eliminate temporal secularism.

Originally posted by GreatTech
The Infinitely Great God created each and every atom (and other particles) in our bodies. Yet many governments in the world would attribute this to one human theory (evolution). For the monetaristic nations of the world, it is like God granting a loan of a quintillion dollars and seeing a repayment of zero cents for Eternity.

Go to service of God and eliminate temporal secularism.

You have totally misunderstood what has taken place..

The Church decided they would take the UNSEEN
and
The Sciences would take the SEEN...

it was the birth of a process..

The Church draws from the Unknowable...
and
The Sciences draw from the Unknown...

The Churches equations take the Unknowable and make it..
Unknown..
Than the Sciences take that and their equations make it into the Known...

[edit on 5-11-2006 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Originally posted by GreatTech
The Infinitely Great God created each and every atom (and other particles) in our bodies. Yet many governments in the world would attribute this to one human theory (evolution). For the monetaristic nations of the world, it is like God granting a loan of a quintillion dollars and seeing a repayment of zero cents for Eternity.

Go to service of God and eliminate temporal secularism.

You have totally misunderstood what has taken place..

The Church decided they would take the UNSEEN
and
The Sciences would take the SEEN...

it was the birth of a process..

The Church draws from the Unknowable...
and
The Sciences draw from the Unknown...

The Churches equations take the Unknowable and make it..
Unknown..
Than the Sciences take that and their equations make it into the Known...

Sorry Spock,

This is not what happened or why....suggest you look up some history and then rethink the "logic".

THanks,
Orangetom

OrangeTom1999..

Alright Winestein, why don't you explain in a more practical way what has occured?

It was perfectly clear to me, PuRe EnErGy

thank you for your truth and your time and our time, as well....

GT - there are no 'loans' from God.

not a loan
not alone
sight unseen
spirit known

Jesus advocated the seperation of Church and State when he entered the Temple grounds during Passover and threw over all the vendor's tables full of goods and money. He was saying matters of State should not be conducted on Temple grounds, this is sacred. And thats a simple message.

But also, one could argue that made Jesus an advocate of Communism too.

Originally posted by queenannie38

GT - there are no 'loans' from God.

not a loan
not alone
sight unseen
spirit known

queenannie38, "loans" was just a quantitative metaphor for a "Spiritual Give-Receive System." The day we stop giving God thanks and praise for the Blessings He has given us is the day that He stops giving Blessings.

Originally posted by GreatTech
queenannie38, "loans" was just a quantitative metaphor for a "Spiritual Give-Receive System." The day we stop giving God thanks and praise for the Blessings He has given us is the day that He stops giving Blessings.

But I must explain something to you - mayhap you will understand - if not, not a problem - you will, someday.

God doesn't require our thanks in exchange for the blessings He bestows. NOT to say that thanks aren't in order - THEY ARE! What gratitude gains is not THE but 'over and above THE.' When I praise God and give Him thanks, my cup runneth over even more than at the start. BUT the blessings were given long before I realized their source - many blessings are very much disguised, as you might well already know.

There is nothing we can do to receive blessings - and likewise there is NOTHING we can do to stop the fount of blessings! It isn't up to us, GT! God WILL NEVER stop loving us, caring for us, or bestowing upon us that which He, in His infinite wisdom and graciousness, determines that we each need.

To thank God is good and always right. But not to thank Him is not a sin or a doom - it is merely a sign of impaired sight - something we are all born with and something which He changes, Himself! If we don't see or recognize His blessings - and therefore do not thank Him - that isn't a personal fault but a divine circumstance. All things are.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

You have totally misunderstood what has taken place..

The Church decided they would take the UNSEEN
and
The Sciences would take the SEEN...

it was the birth of a process..

The Church draws from the Unknowable...
and
The Sciences draw from the Unknown...

The Churches equations take the Unknowable and make it..
Unknown..
Than the Sciences take that and their equations make it into the Known...

You suggest that the Church does nothing since you imply that it only converts the unknowable into the unknown. Nothing is unknowable as God is Omniscient. Everything is either unknown or known. God instructs His Blessed Creation with knowledge in due time.

Do you believe that the Church or science converts the unknown to the known better?

Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

You have totally misunderstood what has taken place..

The Church decided they would take the UNSEEN
and
The Sciences would take the SEEN...

it was the birth of a process..

The Church draws from the Unknowable...
and
The Sciences draw from the Unknown...

The Churches equations take the Unknowable and make it..
Unknown..
Than the Sciences take that and their equations make it into the Known...

You suggest that the Church does nothing since you imply that it only converts the unknowable into the unknown. Nothing is unknowable as God is Omniscient. Everything is either unknown or known. God instructs His Blessed Creation with knowledge in due time.

Do you believe that the Church or science converts the unknown to the known better?

Neither... They are brothers.. (who hate eachother... until sort of recently..)

You are correct to say NOTHING is Unknown.. (lol semantics) .. [Because We truly don't know NOTHING.. all we can know is SOMETHING]... lol

okay but honestly..

Nothing is unknown BECAUSE of GOD... in your witness..
and that is because GOD makes us think of things that are 'impossible' ..
than science looks at the claims of impossibility when the church tells them it is possible (walking on water, healing the sick, converting water to wine) the whole mustard seed thing..
than science takes what the church CLAIMS they know... (that these phenomenon is actually possible) (first you must believe.. second you must have faith) .. which is the equation the church uses..
than the science, takes that hooplaw(entangible claims) .. and finds out if there are any tangible elements to the claims..
and than science explains HOW these things are possible.

Originally posted by runetang
Jesus advocated the seperation of Church and State when he entered the Temple grounds during Passover and threw over all the vendor's tables full of goods and money. He was saying matters of State should not be conducted on Temple grounds, this is sacred. And thats a simple message.

But also, one could argue that made Jesus an advocate of Communism too.

That was not seperation of Church and state...
that was him saying that one should not use GOD for money .. as a means of living..

that making money and making spiritual money were seperate..

He was showing that one should not believe in GOD for money... because that is not how you serve the lord...
You serve the lord by giving for free, not for giving and EXPECTING money...

PuRe EnErGy, I admire your intellect as it provokes thought. Your Spirit, I am not sure of. Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? Do you have a religion? I am an "Open Catholic", meaning I am Catholic but I am Spiritually and selectively open to other religious principles.

God Bless!!!

Originally posted by GreatTech
PuRe EnErGy, I admire your intellect as it provokes thought. Your Spirit, I am not sure of. Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? Do you have a religion? I am an "Open Catholic", meaning I am Catholic but I am Spiritually and selectively open to other religious principles.

God Bless!!!

This is a hard topic to explain ... Concerning myself.. Let me put it this way..

Who are you?

and yes I expect an honest answer.. tell me exactly who you believe you are..

I could tell you who I am, but you would not accept my answer as of yet.... and no, I am not going to say I am GOD or Christ.

[edit on 11/5/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
OrangeTom1999..

Alright Winestein, why don't you explain in a more practical way what has occured?

Pure Energy...the concept of Seperation of Church and state is one not spelled out in the Constitution of the United States but used in practice to prevent what was known and happened in Europe and Asia for thousands of years.

THe layout in Europe and even in Asia to a variation was always where the Church/Priesthood put the crowns on the heads of the rulers. In otherwords the rulers were what are called "Divine Right Kings or Emperors." Their authority since it was from God...by way of the priesthood or ruling church..was unlimited...divine in source. How could one possibly question the authority from God. This meant that rule by King/Emperor was absolute. Their authority was absolute. Though there were some good and decent kings/emperors in many nations there were also many horrible and dishonorable ones. This system of Kings/priesthoods...often became one of a fleecing system where the Kings or royalty under feudalism lived well as did the priesthoods who put them in power ..off the work or labor of the people. Always where you saw this fingerprint..a few people..the priveleged feudal and their cohorts ..the priesthoods.. had a little the rest had almost nothing.
This system is known to those who have done the work to study it. Our founders had definitely done so with their knowlege of kings and kingdoms back to biblical times. This history is known to day. Public education however will avoid this view...so that most never hear of it.
This system of feudal fleecing is the system which our founders sought to avoid here in the United States...by seperating the temptation to meld the church and state...into one.

It is not known by or through the religion of Science...this line of thought is kept from the knowlege of the public so that very few of us can follow this fingerprint. Science is incomplete here..so is philosophy. This system is seldom described in philosophy...yet it is obviously a operating philosophy....even today. The quest for absolute authority here on this earth. It has not gone out of style or desire by rulers..over people. Where is Science on this very important topic?? Absent.

If you do not know this history of seperation of church and state..or the dogma of divine right of kings..you will never recognize it taking place right under your noses today....under the new relgion taking its place...the scientific principles of logic and reason...the reason of men. Reasonable men!!!

Do not confuse science with this dogma..or as a solution to this dogma...science will fail here..it always has.

There have always been only these two systems in operation in history...feudalism ...and freedom/individualism...both use religion to support thier belief systems. One uses the religion to support their reign..the other to prevent this reign from taking place. Both are subject to perversions of the religious doctrine to accomplish thier goals.

Religion is the most powerful political force in existance. Always has been and always will be. We are about to re enter a time when we will see this coming about again. Dont count on science to clue you into what is coming. Nor the logic and reason of men.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I will summarize who I am in five sentences.

1) A person who loves God with all of his heart, all of his soul, all of his mind, and all of his strength.

2) A person who loves his neighbor.

3) A person that searches for new ways to love God with all his heart, all of his soul, all of his mind, and all of his strength.

4) A person that searches for new ways to love his neighbor.

5) A person who searches for new ways to love all of God's creation.

Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999


Orangetom

Originally posted by GreatTech
I will summarize who I am in five sentences.

1) A person who loves God with all of his heart, all of his soul, all of his mind, and all of his strength.

2) A person who loves his neighbor.

3) A person that searches for new ways to love God with all his heart, all of his soul, all of his mind, and all of his strength.

4) A person that searches for new ways to love his neighbor.

5) A person who searches for new ways to love all of God's creation.

Those are all excellent answers... but tell me... Which of these are tangible? and which are entangible... ?

also, keeping in light with what I have already said..
What is living and What is dead ?

Everything you have just said exists in the past, ... it is already dead.

I tell you that you are FAR more than those 5 things listed... You are eternal.

What is excellent about your answer is, you have explained yourself as having potentials... or as a potential...
But would you rather be a potential, or be THEE potential..

You ask me who I am,... and I ask you who you are.
But our answers can never satisfy the reality that is US.
It is always speaking of US in the past tense.
But we are not those things, or else we would still be there.
You become your experiences but you become your experiences by percieving your experiences in a certain light. It shapes and forms them.

Even your name.. (if you were to have answered that your name was 'So and So'...
Our parents named us... the past has labelled us...
Everytime we name ourselves or label ourselves, we have observed certain aspects of ourselves and measured ourselves against it.
making those aspects concrete thus creating our reality according to the images that came before us.

84. Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"

EDIT: .... Your likeness is what you STRIVE to be... It is the BEST or the Divine within you...

It is a big thing to have to deal with everything we have done in the past... it is a great burden indeed... The past isn't tangibly present which is the meaning that it does not become visible.... and neither do they die, because they are still memories...

We really have quite the job ahead of us, to update our memories with all the information we acquired along the way...

It is much more serving to understand the future as moving backward...
and the past as moving forward... we are truly confused when it comes to doing this... lol Back to the future anyone?

[edit on 11/6/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]

Are the USA and Russia atheistic nations? If so, how long will it take to correct this potentially "world deadly" problem?