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Did the Separation of Church & State Kill the World?

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posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by orangetom1999


Orangetom




posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
Are the USA and Russia atheistic nations? If so, how long will it take to correct this potentially "world deadly" problem?


They become what we think they are...


the thing is, we first have to accept them in the state they are already in... than we have to use our intention to seek the positives and focus on them...
it is much harder to explain how a nation will change, because a nation is a gathering of individual people, with individual influence and experience..
We must begin to see we are all one.. meaning no boundaries.. no americans no canadians no catholics no jews.. no saved, no unsaved.. no good and no bad... just WHAT IS... and we have to move on from there.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 02:29 AM
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This world is a dung heap...a refuse pit. Under the leadership of "natural men" it will only become more so.

"One" will only happen when everyone is at the poverty level. This is the best that natural men can do...by thier very logic and reason.

Men have tried to make this world one empire...one ruler for thousands of years and it never succeeded. Those who tried never even came close. Such a empire is very difficult to rule..even in the "communications age."

Alexander tried it ..the Mongols tried it. Romans , Etc etc...Egyptians..Muslims Europeans...the British Empire... Always they fell to other conquering Empires.
All of these under feudal systems too. Royaltys...divine right Kings/Emperors...absolute power rulers.

Someone is going to try it again...no worries mate... TEChnology and Science melded with Philosophy and religious dogma will help. Nothing new here.

Orangetom



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 06:17 PM
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If there never was separation of church & state, wars, bombs, missile, guns... may have never been invented.

Love and peace.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 06:59 PM
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Can a nation, like the USA, that supports the separation of church & state suggest a religion without recommending or endorsing one? George Walker Bush has been fairly open about his religion of Christianity. Did he suggest it, recommend it, endorse it, or none of the above.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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Well, first of all, Church and state are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Religion was made to guide and the state is designed to rule. Unfortunately, for at least the last 1500 years, the church no longer guides but rules.

Therefore, there is a conflict when you try to merge the present day church with the state. You then have two ruling classes battling over a fledgling society. Until the church retains its rightful place as being a guiding force rather than a ruling force, the state and church should never combine.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, first of all, Church and state are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Religion was made to guide and the state is designed to rule. Unfortunately, for at least the last 1500 years, the church no longer guides but rules.

Therefore, there is a conflict when you try to merge the present day church with the state. You then have two ruling classes battling over a fledgling society. Until the church retains its rightful place as being a guiding force rather than a ruling force, the state and church should never combine.


How do you define "guiding force" and "ruling force"? In many ways I would see the two concepts as complementary rather than oppositional. For example, God guides and rules.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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GT,religion was never meant to be used as a method of control. For at least the last 1500 years that is what religion, particularly the three major ones, have been, a method of control. The state, on the other hand, was designed to control.

A Guiding force just shows you a way to do something.

A ruling force makes you do it... Whether it be through fear,physically, or by whatever force.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
GT,religion was never meant to be used as a method of control. For at least the last 1500 years that is what religion, particularly the three major ones, have been, a method of control. The state, on the other hand, was designed to control.

A Guiding force just shows you a way to do something.

A ruling force makes you do it... Whether it be through fear,physically, or by whatever force.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]


So, is the state more in tune with God's Will than the Church? If so, where did it learn this power to control? Who designed the state to control? Where does God enter into your definitions of "guiding force" and "ruling force"?

Personally God guides AND rules my life.



posted on Nov, 6 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
GT,religion was never meant to be used as a method of control. For at least the last 1500 years that is what religion, particularly the three major ones, have been, a method of control. The state, on the other hand, was designed to control.

A Guiding force just shows you a way to do something.

A ruling force makes you do it... Whether it be through fear,physically, or by whatever force.

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 6-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]


So, is the state more in tune with God's Will than the Church? If so, where did it learn this power to control? Who designed the state to control? Where does God enter into your definitions of "guiding force" and "ruling force"?

Personally God guides AND rules my life.


We are ALL in tune with GOD.... we just listen quite selectively...
We can't live .. meaning LIFE would not exist without 'GOD'..
once again this is beyond semantics..



posted on Nov, 7 2006 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
[
So, is the state more in tune with God's Will than the Church? If so, where did it learn this power to control? Who designed the state to control? Where does God enter into your definitions of "guiding force" and "ruling force"?



Problem is, the "church" is not God!! You see, the church is simply meant to be a guide,not a ruling force. The church has no authority to tell you what you can and cannot do!! The state has nothing whatsoever to do with God. It's simply intended to be a ruling system on earth.

God does not attempt to control ones life. He may very well guide a person,but control is not something God dabbles in. Of course, there are always going to be those who will choose to argue with this,but if they do, they need to throw their concept of "free will" out the window. :shk:

[edit on 7-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 7-11-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 12:50 AM
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no religion should not play any part in government. A simple statement will tell you why I believe this.

No one ever got into heaven by doing the right thing with a gun held to their head.

when you can understand that, we can continue talking.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by grimreaper797]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
no religion should not play any part in government. A simple statement will tell you why I believe this.

No one ever got into heaven by doing the right thing with a gun held to their head.

when you can understand that, we can continue talking.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by grimreaper797]


Well there are certain people holding guns... there is a select group holding them much firmer than the other...
Jihad has a very different intent than the war on drugs or the war on terrorism...
The only option is to make peace... and have some of the most skilled linguists available to have an open discussion with the 'clerics' or .. the religeous leaders heading the encouragement.

I am all for understanding.. but ... the sword is not the proper weapon to use against unbelievers... ... perhaps the "s" is in the wrong place... and its WORD(S)...



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
Well there are certain people holding guns... there is a select group holding them much firmer than the other...
Jihad has a very different intent than the war on drugs or the war on terrorism...
The only option is to make peace... and have some of the most skilled linguists available to have an open discussion with the 'clerics' or .. the religeous leaders heading the encouragement.

I am all for understanding.. but ... the sword is not the proper weapon to use against unbelievers... ... perhaps the "s" is in the wrong place... and its WORD(S)...


you did not understand it.

You must look at yourself when reading it, and please dont take it literally, look at the last part metaphorically.

No one ever made it to heaven by doing the right thing with a gun to their head.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 07:52 PM
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Hegel..."The State is God!!"

Ever heard this in Public School?? Dont think for one minute that they are not teaching a religion in public schools while they try to claim seperation of church and state.

Most of you probably never thought of the political machine in any country as a religion. This is obviously true by the devoutness and the absolute power non limitations that the partys try to play on each other and also the public. The behind the scenes maneuvering which they do..also the behind the scenes maneuvering thier shills ..the media also do for them.

It becomes obvious after awhile that their investment in us is our ignorance.

This kind of thinking would require one to think past American Idol an the LA Lakers, NASCAR rf what ever other drivel occupys so much of our days. I submit to you that this kind of "drivel" was put there to occupy us and keep us from thinking about the real nature of the religion being foisted off on us by the body politic...who also pay for our educations...most of us. It takes a lifetime of work to break out of the mold in thinking.

Break the mold folks ..the paradim. Think it through.

Muse..dont Amuse.

Orangetom



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Originally posted by grimreaper797
no religion should not play any part in government. A simple statement will tell you why I believe this.

No one ever got into heaven by doing the right thing with a gun held to their head.

when you can understand that, we can continue talking.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by grimreaper797]


Well there are certain people holding guns... there is a select group holding them much firmer than the other...
Jihad has a very different intent than the war on drugs or the war on terrorism...
The only option is to make peace... and have some of the most skilled linguists available to have an open discussion with the 'clerics' or .. the religeous leaders heading the encouragement.

I am all for understanding.. but ... the sword is not the proper weapon to use against unbelievers... ... perhaps the "s" is in the wrong place... and its WORD(S)...



THe religion of Jihad is a variation of Divine Right of Kings only under the clerics or Imams...issuing decrees according to what the latest vision from Allah says. Meaning Men decide today...and we will change it as needed. It is this to which Pure Energy is proposing we make peace.

The trail traveled here is one of ...away from Divine Right of Kings in 1781 back to Divine Right of Kings by the 21st century. Full circle. Yet Pure Energy does not describe this trail or route back full circle for what they are actually proposing.

THe historical difference is that this system was practiced thousands of years ago...it was practiced by The Roman Catholic Church in Europe and South/Central America. Practiced by the Emperors in Asian nations..Pagan kings and soverigns too. Now it is going to be returned to under Jihad. This doesnt make good nonsense when you think it through.

THe irony of this is that Science ..logic and reason ..reasonable men are supposed to be able to think further than this. Yet so many cannot. Meaning science and logic/reason are incomplete here. Think very carefully here.
This also means that any body politic which adheres to this sue for peace dogma at any price is also practicing a religion...and it has to be one of ignorance to maintain their power base.
Remember ..Politics pays for our educations...in science/philosphy...and other arenas...and many of us are incomplete in this arena.

For those of you even able to understand a modicum of what I am describing here.

Where science and logic/reason has failed us here..both in Religion and the religion practiced by the body politic....is that the religion of the body politic is mostly one of hidden practices...hidden beliefs..not known by the public they claim to be representing.

A previous poster refered to the question of whether the USA and Russia are athiest nations.. NO they are not ..absolutely not.
What the USA and Russia are practicing in thier body politic is "Occult Religion."
Occult meaning hidden/concealed from those it claims to be representing.

The bulk of the worlds conflicts have been occult in thier natures. This is obvious by the scant details available in history books to explain these conflicts ..the rewriting of the historys. Mostly by what is missing from the explainations.

In Jihad we will have one Occult religion again coming into conflict with another Occult religion. ONe of them is going to lose. YOu can be gauranteed that the public they claim to be representing is going to lose if they have not already lost.


Orangetom



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