US soldiers execute 4 iraqi firemen infront of Fallujah residents.

I'm quite busy, but i was too upset over this not to post about it.

"Four firemen were killed by the U.S. Army because they were late to get to the four burning Hummers," a young man who witnessed the attack told IPS. "They were not killed by mistake, they were killed in front of many people."

The U.S. military has admitted that it killed three firemen by mistake because they were suspected to be militants.

Hundreds of residents later attended the burial of the firemen together with five other men killed by occupation forces the same day.

"The Americans brought five dead civilians whom they shot in the city streets in revenge for their casualties," a man at the former football field now called Martyrs Graveyard told IPS. "We are going to need another graveyard, this one is going to be full soon." All semblance of normal living in the province is disappearing. Saif al-Juboori, a student at the University of al-Anbar in Ramadi, says this will be a wasted year for thousands of students.

www.iraq-war.ru...

What is most infuriating, is how they lied about it, saying they killed them "cause they mistook them for being militants", how much does a fireman with firetruck, big water hose and fire uniform look like a resistance fighter???????

If this isn't proof that the US is killing civilians and getting away with it, i don't know what is. Makes the people here that say "those that kill civilians will be trialed" look so ridiculous doesn't it.


[edit on 2-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

*Paul Harvey voice*
You've heard the news. Now it's time for.....The Rest of the Story!

yahoo.com
After receiving word that a fire truck and its crew were just hijacked, coalition forces pulled over a fire truck matching that description," When the unarmed firefighters got out of the fire tender US soldiers opened fire and killed them, after mistaking them for armed insurgents.


Minutes later another fire truck was spotted and pulled over in an area nearby. The occupants fled. It was determined that this truck number did match the truck that was hijacked," it added.

Worse things have happened during war. U.S. forces have opened fire on Canadian and other U.S. forces. They probably were using excessive force, but apparently their motives were straight. They were told a fire truck was taken by insurgents. They found what they thought was the fire truck in question, and when the firemen bailed out of the truck, they shot first and asked questions later.

It's not as if they lined them up like a firing squad shooting.


[edit on 1-11-2006 by dbates]

Terrible indeed, but we've got one side of the story.

I must say however, my neighbor just returned from a tour in Iraq, and some of the things he's told me are downright appalling. It seems that a significant number of US troops are quite enthusiastic about beating and torturing non-combative Iraqis, and offer no remorse, even if it's discovered they just slaughtered "the wrong guy". He's told me that "boredom induced" beatings, torture and executions of Iraqis are quite common.

Originally posted by dbates
they shot first and asked questions later.

i thought that was the US motto shoot first and ask question later,
worst things have happend, in war the united states out of almost all countries has a tendancy to shoot and kill their own allies (trigger happy cowboys as one brit said from his hospital bed)

also great way to win the herats and minds of the iraqis

Originally posted by Unit541 I must say however, my neighbor just returned from a tour in Iraq, and some of the things he's told me are downright appalling. ...

I was told many many similar stories in Dubai from drunken squaddies during their times away from the''front line''
All the infamous ''newsworthy'' slaughters that have been covered up or ''proved to be innacurate'' are nothing compared to some.

we always only get one side of the story when "certain" people are "reporting" these things...

did you expect anything different....

Well that earns syrian sister a great big fat IGNORE from now on....

Biased? she's the very definition of it. inaccurate? that too... propoganda tool? that too...

Cannot be bothered to read any more of her rubbish - Every other article in ATS has a fair view on things...some times heated, but not so biased it becomes rubbish...

IGNORE NOW ON!

Well, well, well.

I see how many here are denying ignorance

They just push the littler button when they do not want to agree with the ones that disagree with them.

May I ask then . . . how do you plan o get involve in a debate while ignoring the person that you disagree with?

Deny ignorance people don't spread it.

[edit on 1-11-2006 by marg6043]

I just would like to see a little more effort in trying to hear both sides, instead of the same bash the non-muslims.


I have never seen once a post from this poster or some others on car bombs in markets killing innocent people.

Makes me wonder why a muslim killing muslims is not as news worthy? Since innocent people are being killed without cause.

I guess religous hatred plays over lives.

Marg,
i dropped in to see what the thread was about, was going to argue about it but thought less of it...

Syrian sister isn't worth me even wasting breath on. The ignore buttons there for a reason, so i exercised my freedom to use it....

IF however she had at least but a possible riderabout the story in her post, IF she had tried to show there was more to the story, then she would of been fairly reporting the event...

But read pure poison propoganda? no thanks, thats why i avoid goverment news outlets, I sure as heck don't want to read it here on ATS as well.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Well that earns syrian sister a great big fat IGNORE from now on....

Biased? she's the very definition of it. inaccurate? that too... propoganda tool? that too...

Well, you've clearly made up your own mind about this, but I prefer to ask questions.

For example, are the US soldiers going to stand trial for what was either a tragic mistake or a deliberate atrocity? It seems to be agreed that US soldiers did indeed kill Iraqi firemen. No-one's disputing that. The question is whether they were killed as an act of revenge for perceived tardiness or by mistake.

A trial would be one way to resolve this issue.

Another question - why would insurgents steal a fire engine? That would make them conspicuous, surely? What would their motive be? Who are these witnesses that saw the fire engine abandoned?

You say SS is biased and inaccurate but you don't show how you reach this conclusion. If you don't want to seem biased yourself then perhaps you might like to reconsider that approach, and point out specific instances in which she's been biased and inaccurate.

One thing that we do know is that the US military has no compunction about lying and covering up its atrocities.

As for the issue of terrorist bombings killing Iraqi civilians, it's obviously wrong. However, it wouldn't be happening at all but for the invasion: and there is evidence that sectarian divisions have been inflamed deliberately by occupation forces and people inside the Iraqi government. Remember the UK SAS men who were arrested in Arab dress with a car full of explosives and weapons? Of course I condemn those who commit such atrocities, but without the occupation, they wouldn't have a motive. They regard people who work with the Iraqi government as collaborators with a hostile occupying power, and I can certainly see the logic behind that argument, much as I may deplore their tactics.

Why do these threads degenerate into "attack the OP"?

rich really made the point best. It happened and it must be dealt with.

DK, this isn't your usual style. Maybe you are upset about the situation and SS's take on it. She has her own principles on which decisions are based, just as you do.

I'll tell you something, I'd really like to think it was a tragic mistake, and I hope it was. But with all the shady and plain evil things happening on an hourly basis in the region, the darker possibility remains and needs to be investigated.

My take is not your take, and I won't ignore you for it. There is more going on than a difference of religion. SS doesn't need anyone to speak for her, but I think the meat of the situation is getting lost amongst cultural differences on these boards. I've been guilty of this myself.

what do you WANT my post to sound like?

"oh hello old chaps, seems to me someone out there is giving a different version of the events. Now i don't know who is lying or telling the truth, and i wouldn't dare use logic or perception to reach a likely conclusion, dare i sound bias. Killing my people and talking about it as if it where nothing but a traffic infringment, i can't be angry about that LEST I SOUND BIAS!!!!"

is that more to your liking?
Well I'm sorry, but don't hold your breath, because that's something your never going to get. This source is from an AMERICAN writer, it's not like i am posting the resistance reports.

As rich said, it is obvious these men where killed no one denies that, and there are people out there that said they witnessed a murder. Isn't it ussual when people say there has been a murder that there is a investigation that follows?

Resistance stealing a fire truck... comical.
If only the resistance had actually been around to save those men.

---------
And by the way,

I guess religous hatred plays over lives.

When has religion ever come into this?

Biased ?? Damn straight biased and virtually purely propaganda and lies.


You changed that article from Killed to executed, From accident to assassination.

And you intentially found the most biased, unaccurate report of the incident that google would dish you up.


then you go onto claim them as "your People" , your doing your 'agenda' zero favors by reporting unadulturated lies.

The fact that you so vehemently belive what i say to be lies, and the DOD version to be truth, does that not expose YOUR BIAS.

The one question I have is related to this quote from the OP:

"...how much does a fireman with firetruck, big water hose and fire uniform look like a resistance fighter???????"


What, exactly, does a resistance fighter look like? Are you saying that resistance fighters would not dare imposter firefighters?

I take this article with a grain of skepticism. It would be like reading the government’s version of any given story: biased and lacking objectivity.

Ok Syrian Sister I am trying to see your view and you know and I know that bad thing are happening in Iraq and that some of our men may not be behaving how they should be but we are not in their shoes.
Where is your rage against the Syrian insurgents blowing up Iraq children every day?

Are you saying that resistance fighters would not dare imposter firefighters?

Why?? to what end would they pose as firefighters?

Cause they always wanted to be one as a child? Cause they always wanted to blow the siren? Inorder to stick out like a sore thumb and water down the burning humvee?

Please tell me what was this ingenious plan of dressing up as firemen.


What does it matter anway, even if your story where possible, don't you think the fact that there are witnesses to a murder means this thing deserves closer inspection?
----------------

further more, i never claimed the ultimate un bias source. Have you ever thought that the truth may not be in the middle?
No one is forcing you to belive me, don't take my word for anything, make up your own mind for godsake. But atleast have an open mind and dig a little deeper in your research.
Deny ignorance remember.

As for propoganda, look at the exact definition, it doesn't mean to lie, but to propogate your idea, and i have never denied that i do that very well. But i happen to belive that my idea is the truth, and i'm not prepared to use lies to convince anyone. Unlike your government.

Do you blame me on putting more faith in the words of the fallujan people than the words of your lying government? How can you, when it's only your government who has been proven to lie consistantl, WMD's are only the start.

If your still not satisifed, think of me as balancing out the scale of all the pro-bush warmongers which there are alot of on this site, then make up your own mind.

-------------------

Where is your rage against the Syrian insurgents blowing up Iraq children every day?

The resistance would never endanger the lives of their people or their children. And there are no syrians in iraq, they all left in 2003.

[edit on 2-11-2006 by Syrian Sister]

There should never of been Americans in that country to even be in this situation.

Everything after that in the argument of right or wrong is mute.

The more damage they inflict on this country, being its already known around the world this war was FAKED, they will suffer back on their own society, in the decades to come.

America was at risk for ISRAEL occupying someones else country, imagine the decades of violence and economic effect the average american is going to struggle with, being they ruined a much larger country...


all so a few key men, could make some money.
These men are selling our futures... with every day they are in power.


[edit on 2-11-2006 by Agit8dChop]

What a terrible sad story.
I didn't know we were the Judge and Jury over there. Thats terribly wrong. Man this is just so sad.