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Chemtrail Science?

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posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 05:40 AM
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Hey nice post LoneGunMan. I mentioned the PPL just so you know, I know lots about planes.

The thing I don't understand is why OTHER people jump to conclusions making up incorrect so called 'evidence' about how planes make Chemtrails, then to back that evidence up they just show us a bunch of pictures.

What they should really be doing is getting loads of pictures then asking the gov't, Boeing, Airbus or even USAF workers about them.

EDIT: Like my new mini-profile?

[edit on 15-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]




posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by PisTonZOR

The thing I don't understand is why OTHER people jump to conclusions making up incorrect so called 'evidence' about how planes make Chemtrails, then to back that evidence up they just show us a bunch of pictures.



Thank you for the compliment.

Same reason why so many people do the UFO thing, sometimes people just like to get on bandwagon and ride it for the ride.


About your new look. It is just great, that avatar with the black background is looking badazz.

You are a smart kid with a flexible open mind, you will go far in life. Remember the univere is unlimited, and we are sentient beings that are capable of anything we put our minds too. Never limit your thinking, and always push the limits.



[edit on 15-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by PisTonZOR
What they should really be doing is getting loads of pictures then asking the gov't, Boeing, Airbus or even USAF workers about them.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]


You can't honestly mean this do you? That's like basing a murder trial on just asking the defendant if he or she is guilty or not and letting them decide their fate. Sorry but who are you shilling for again?



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 11:00 PM
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So how many people are involved in this plot again?



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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Just the aliens Howard...


How in the heck do I know or anyone else? You ask these questions that cannot be answered. If we knew that it wouldnt be a secret now would it.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by denythestatusquo

Originally posted by PisTonZOR
What they should really be doing is getting loads of pictures then asking the gov't, Boeing, Airbus or even USAF workers about them.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]


You can't honestly mean this do you? That's like basing a murder trial on just asking the defendant if he or she is guilty or not and letting them decide their fate.

Well that's my opinion. If enouph people rise up and ask them about it, something or someone will give in.

I personally don't beleive in Chemtrails, but if I did then that's what I would do.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 12:05 AM
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This is what chaff looks like when it is picked up by weather radar.

www.crh.noaa.gov...

radar-info.fzk.de...

If chemtrails are made up of aluminum (jusl like cahff), as some claim, why don't they show up on radar also?



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 10:25 AM
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I'm saying that I HOPE it's aluminum, because that would be the preferred of the two (i.e., chemicals or metals). If the implication of your post, that aluminum is not a particle included in these streams, then the question is "What is it that is being sprayed over our heads, having this effect, and sometimes appearing as yellow, fibrous or weblike fallout?"

If it's true, and your implication is correct, then the fact that these are not showing up on radar really gives one pause for concern, because that could mean these streams consist of organic material, and really COULD be harmful pathogens, or some sort of biological or chemical compound. Very, very concerning.

So if you're right, and it's not aluminum, that would lend further credence to the accounts of weblike, fibrous material in these streams, but for what purpose? Why would these aircraft be spraying organic material over our heads? The material in question has already been linked to serious health problems!



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by OnTheDeck
I'm saying that I HOPE it's aluminum, because that would be the preferred of the two (i.e., chemicals or metals).



Why would these aircraft be spraying organic material over our heads? The material in question has already been linked to serious health problems!


Its to cull the useless eaters! This link will tell you everything you need to know, plus for $19.99, how to protect yourself!

The Real Goal of Chemtrails



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 11:25 AM
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Actually it is done due to ordinary irresponsible inconsiderate military minds, that forget, that the citizens in the field, are not the lab rats that signed up to be experimented on...

see the link from my signiture a large city in Oklahoma, Stillwater (a college town actually) was chosen (how special) to become a target of a chemical weapons test several decades ago...
A chemical weapons test performed by our government and military upon our own people..

they sprayed the chemical, waited to see how long it took people to get sick (several died) and how far it spread from the original source...

then the program operators left, without ever returning to see what long term debilitating illnesses had occured
(there is a much higher incidence of nuerological disease in areas surrounding Stillwater)

I make no claim, that this is being done now, but the fact that it was done in the recent history (by the governments own records)
sets a standard of "deny ignorance" by listening to claims of present programs...
not making fun of the people who claim to have proof of chemtrails...

because it isn't paranoid to be concerned about a governments behavior that has done those exact actions in the past.



posted on Oct, 17 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Consider me justifiably chastised.
I was just messin' around.



posted on Oct, 18 2006 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by darkbluesky

Its to cull the useless eaters! This link will tell you everything you need to know, plus for $19.99, how to protect yourself!

The Real Goal of Chemtrails



his whole chemtrail issue is related to the plan for decreasing the world population to around 450-500 million -- and starting with the US first.


LOL! Methinks they're spraying fertility drugs by mistake!



posted on Oct, 19 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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In situ observations of the microphysical properties of upper-tropospheric contrails and cirrus clouds have been performed during more than 15 airborne missions over central Europe. Experimental and technical aspects concerning in situ characterization of ice clouds with the help of optical and nonoptical detection methods (preferably FSSP-300 and Hallet-type replicator) are addressed. The development of contrails into cirrus clouds on the timescale of 1 h is discussed in terms of a representative set of number densities, and size distributions and surface area distributions of aerosols and cloud elements, with special emphasis on small ice crystals (diameter 100 cm−3) of nearly spherical ice crystals with mean diameters in the range 1–10 μm. Young cirrus clouds, which mostly contain small regularly shaped ice crystals in the range 10–20-μm diameter and typical concentrations 2–5 cm−3, have been observed. Measurement results are compared to simple parcel model calculations to identify parameters relevant for the contrail–cirrus transition. Observations and model estimates suggest that contrail growth is only weakly, if at all, affected by preexisting cirrus clouds.


Source



In this study we present the microphysical characteristics of 21 jet contrail clouds sampled in situ and examine the possible effects of exhaust on natural cirrus and radiative effects of contrails. Microphysical samples were obtained with Particle Measuring Systems (PMS) 2D-C, 1D-C, and FSSP probes. About one half of the study contrails were generated by the sampling aircraft, a Cessna Citation, primarily at times of 3-15 min after generation; the source and age of the others is unknown. On average, the contrails contained particles of mean diameter of the order of 10 mum in concentrations exceeding 10,000 L-1. Contrails embedded in natural cirrus appeared to have little effect on the natural cloud microphysics. Anomalous diffraction theory was used to model radiative properties of sampled contrails. The contrail cirrus showed considerably more spectral variation in extinction and absorption efficiencies than natural cirrus because of the large numbers of small crystals in contrails. Embedded contrails also displayed greater emissivity and emission than natural cirrus and a greater spectral variation in transmission.

adsabs.harvard.edu...



posted on Oct, 22 2006 @ 09:16 PM
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Chemtrail Science is a contradiction in terms. Howard, would you think
of yourself as an objectivist?


[edit on 22-10-2006 by firepilot]



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by PisTonZOR

No, I am 17, did work experiance at a airport and I'm getting my PPL (Hopefully my CPL soon). I can guarantee I know allot about planes, weather, and how things run in the Aviation buisness. Hell my Dad's been a pilot for 30years.

[edit on 13-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]


PisTonZor,

The only reason our resident firefighter is pointing out your tender years is because you make reasoned, thought out posts that differ from his views. Since he cannot debate you with facts, he has to demean you with the only thing at his disposal...your age.

Don't worry about it; just keep posting what you believe in the same manner. You are doing just fine, and it proves you are getting under his skin with the truth. That's why he attacks you!!!



posted on Oct, 23 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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I always get a kick out of self promoting experts that think just because they "do that business" and they "didn't see anything like that"
that therefore, it is untrue...

the logic is amazing... and quite egocentric...
I make no claim that people DONT know what they talk about... but I often doubt they do...

it takes a pretty big man to admit, that while he is experienced in the field, he (or she) still doesn't know everything...

particularly about conspiracies... that is the point of a conspiracy... that it is information held from the common public...

in the example I sighted (within Sig) I use government documents as a source, that were held in government hands, and known by only a few... and took the very dedicated work by an investigative reporter to dig up the documentation...

so yeah... everyone would have known all about that deal...


also, it was a test done by several military departments (each only knew their Jobs worth) and none thought there was anything wrong with it at the time...
(oh how little they knew- very shortsighted)

and as one last important statement...
I make no claim that our (or any) government is presently spraying chemicals above us that could harm us... (except weather modification efforts- with unsure effect)

But I do say it is a very normal thing to worry about, considering our past mistakes, and lack of foresight...



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 12:16 AM
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A couple more abstracts:




This study examines how jet aircraft contrails develop precipitation trails, using data collected on 12 May, 1996 during SUCCESS. The DC-8 sampled the precontrail conditions, produced a contrail largely in clear air at -52°C, and sampled the contrail and developing trails for over an hour. The environment was highly ice-supersaturated, reaching nearly water saturation in some locations. Inside the contrail core, almost all ice particles remained small (∼ 1 to 10 μm) due to high crystal concentrations (∼ 10[1] to 10[2] cm[-3]) which reduced the vapor density to saturation. Mixing of moist environmental air and vapor-depleted contrail air produced localized regions of supersaturation along the contrail periphery, where crystals grew to several hundred microns at about 0.1 μm s[-1]. These particles could then fall from the contrail into the vapor-rich, undepleted, supersaturated environment below. As heavier crystals left the contrail, others moved into the regions of ice supersaturation. Precipitation trails developed as this process continued over time.


cat.inist.fr...






Summary The global distribution of contrail formation potential and contrail cloud coverage are estimated using meteorological analyses of temperature and humidity (ECMWF re-analyses) and an aircraft fuel inventory. A large potential for contrail formation is found in the upper troposphere, in particular in the tropics, but also at mid-latitudes. The global potential contrail coverage is calculated to be 16%.

The actual contrail coverage is proportional to the product of the potential coverage and the fuel consumption of 1991/92 air traffic. The actual global contrail coverage is 0.09%, however, the pattern of main air routes show up in the geographical distribution of contrail coverage with maximum values of more than 5%. Regionally, contrail coverage shows a distinct annual cycle, with larger values in winter than in summer, in the mid-latitudes. The result is only weakly sensitive to the propulsion efficiency of aircraft, but strongly sensitive to aircraft flight altitude.


www.springerlink.com...



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 11:12 AM
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Ah howard...
I thank you for this thread...


You have been most enlightening to the crowd that thinks all contrails that spread are chemtrails...

You have avoided distraction, and poured forth the science that spells out what makes contrails act like "chemtrails"....

I think I will point people to this thread, whenever i see a contrail theorist that is not considering science...

chemtrails are scary, and also potentially possible, by our governments own admission...
but it serves no purpose other than inducing fear, to have people be worried about every distinct spreading contrail...

by focusing on the real possible threat, and the true signs of that threat (such as suggested testing of high altitude solar remediation techniques) we can all get more realistic, and worry about "what might be or is" rather than "every spreading contrail in the sky"

I truly think you just took the top layer of "loonie" off the chemtrail debate, and hopefully it will help in future discussions.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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Well, Laz (or should I call you Woodrow?)

That's all I ask.




posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 02:08 PM
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prediction model


The increases in total cloud amount documented for large regions during the latter half of the twentieth century have focused attention on the potential contribution from jet condensation trails (contrails). The environmental conditions that favor contrail formation and persistence are not well understood primarily due to the limited number of empirical studies. This study presents an empirical model to predict widespread occurrences of contrails (outbreaks), which was developed from a combination of rawinsonde temperature and GOES water vapor information. Environments containing persisting contrails were first identified on Defense Meteorological Satellite Program satellite imagery for the United States for January and April 1987 and then analyzed in more detail using Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer (AVHRR) satellite digital data. Adjacent clear and cloudy environments not containing contrails were identified to compare with the conditions favorable for contrail persistence. For this purpose, a predictive logistic model was developed through multiple regression analysis.
The model performance was evaluated through goodness-of-fit methods and found to be statistically significant across a range of atmospheric conditions. To further evaluate the model and to demonstrate its application on a real-time basis, predictions of the probability of persisting contrails were made for a case day. Comparisons of the predictions to satellite observations of the existing conditions (using AVHRR data) demonstrate good model performance and suggest the utility of this approach for predicting persisting contrail occurrence. Implementation of this model should allow climate researchers to better quantify the influence of contrails on surface climate and natural cloud formation.


This paper is just over 10 years old, so it’s a little out of date.



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