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Chemtrail Science?

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posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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Another cool site that looks at the affects of wake dynamics on contrail formation.

eiger.mae.wvu.edu...




posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by CYRAX
PISTONZOR
i know you still go to school

so dont mention my name again
i dont play with lil kids because they might get hurt

you come to threads thinking your speacial your not stay at school where you belong

"Kids use that at schools for mobile ring tones. Quiet easily message people on the phone without a noise.

You randomly start it then everyone in the class looks around saying 'WHATS THE FREAKEN NOISE!?!!'. Then the teacher is like, what noise? Pretty funny."

how old are you 10

Rofl, you can't spell, your posts lack logic, you claim I am following you, you think I should be warned for posting in your threads, your active hours are usually after 3PM and yet you claim I am an idiot who goes to school? Granted, I do go to school, but atleast my posts are logical, atleast I'm not a hypocrit, and atleast I can spell, unlike you.

[edit on 12-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 06:25 AM
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A couple of links I posted in another thread, concerning the impact of contrails on global warming, and suggestions for combatting them

earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

www.livescience.com...

(I rather like the idea that scientists are looking at ways of reducing 'chemtrails'
)



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by behindthescenes
Here's a "reseacher" who claims to know the entire conspiracy skinny on the chemtrail phenomenon.

She's quite detailed.

I wonder if she's single?

Read her report here.


Oh, please, anyone who cites Cliff Carnicom as a source has no scientific credibility whatsoever.

That is the same site that I cited to start this thread.





I was being facetious.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 08:39 AM
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I'm not here to insult or make fun of your stance on contrails/chemtrails. I hadn't spent a lot of time on ATS until just recently...it's kind of interesting.

I only wanted to add/state that, Howard, you admit that seeding and weather modification exists, you just don't want to use the word chemtrails. As if that would cede your position entirely (not that I'm even sure what your position is). I just can't understand your stubborn, unreasonable and uncompromising stance with regard to the semantics. It's clear factually you've ceded your position, but refuse to call a duck a duck.

How can you call anything that is man-made, chemical, and deliberately seeded (sprayed) into the atmosphere a contrail? I thought the definition of a contrail was the water condensation as a byproduct of heat meeting with the cold air, and the definition of a chemtrail an unnatural, man-made chemical deliberately sprayed into the air(?).

Not that I intend to ignore your response. I assume it will be valid, but I'll hang up and listen...

Either way, I think the diligence from both sides of this issue are a positive thing....

Bye!
Deck



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 08:53 AM
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I have no problems with your definitions, just your application of them.

You have yet to show that the contrail photos posted that are claimed to be chemtrails are indeed chemtrails and not just ordinary contrails.

That is the whole point.

No one has ever produced any physical proof to support the chemtrail claim.

Cloud seeding is not the issue here, the normal development of contrails from ordinary air traffic is.

There is no sinister government plot behind this.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 09:07 AM
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I just can't understand your stubborn, unreasonable and uncompromising stance with regard to the semantics. It's clear factually you've ceded your position, but refuse to call a duck a duck.

And you thought I was insulting. Yeah, whatever.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 09:39 AM
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Ok Howard...
I see that you missed the explanation of how clouds are formed by these methods (dispersing agent, and reagent- to form cloud, from the "chemtrail")

from my link previous:

Experiments have been done by dispersing a hygroscopic substance such as sea salt powder from an airplane to catch the humidity in the air and then followed by a cold substance (for instance, dry ice) to condense the humidity to form cloud. Yet problem exists, i.e., when there is no rain, while without enough dry ice it soon dissolves back to the blue sky right after a cloud is formed. If too much dry ice is used, the cloud becomes `exploded` and thus also is destroyed; where at this stage even spraying the sea water does not help initiate rainfall as the sky remains blue. Therefore, so many factors must be concerned, i.e. humidity, temperature, speed and direction of the wind, and etc. Cloud physics must also be studied in much greater details to make rain efficiently although the basic principles and all the components for rain-making remain the same.


They are describing a complex process of maintaining the "growth of the cloud" instead of letting it disperse... (they keep a key factor to the process as an industrial secret- My guess is that it isn't eco-friendly)

does that satisy the description?

and as for proof... as i said... go down to your local airport during a drought, and see if they will let you volunteer to help... (we see features on our local news all the time)

rather boring stuff i hear...

Howard, I really hope you aren't truly debating how effective these processes are now...
Since the purpose of this thread was to challenge whether they existed at all- and they do...
Whether they work "to your satisfaction" is immaterial to your claim.


But hey... at least we settled the question of nefarious Doctor Zero, and his diabolical mind control, population reducing chemtrails...


But for the record, I make no claims of knowledge, as to whether other countries are spraying viruses or not...



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 09:57 AM
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I think we need to be clear -- for the validity of this debate -- that there is a clear distinction between "chemtrails" as the conspiracy theorists view them and well-documented evidence and experiments with cloud seeding and weather modification.

When chemtrails is discussed, it is usually in reference to the idea that the government is spraying some form of chemical/drug into the atmosphere. Weather modification is not a factor nor a stated goal.

For a good group to call for basic information on country-wide cloud-seeding projects (which have become commonplace over ski resorts in efforts to increase snowfall), read this.

OR the conclusions to a Utah cloud seeding ski resort project

M ilitary site regarding the history of contrails and info debunking chemtrails



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 10:10 AM
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Has anyone ever taken a photo of cloud seeding or other experimental weather modification programmes? Be interesting to see if they do look anything like normal contrails ......


There's no argument that such activities do occasionally take place in a few parts of the world. However, they are not responsible for persistent contrails seen over every populous country on the planet when atmospheric conditions are right, nor for sheets of cirrostratus, irridescenve, nor any other natural phenomena usually cited as evidence for 'chemtrails'.



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Well, ya see...
I checked that out, and as i stated...
Chemtrails are not the debate... it is the reasons for them that are debated...

I think if you try to pigeon hole all Chemtrail CTers into a Disease vector/Mind control theorists, you will find that they have as much debate amongst themselves, as there is to the existance of same... (as evident by many ATS threads)
Also, being as "chemtrails" supposidly spread out, and get thicker/larger... wouldn't that defy the definition of the disease spraying types (since a medicine would likely dissapate for dispersal)

That is why i laid it out
Weather control chemtrails -Yes
solar mediation Chemtrails - advanced methods in testing, (and also byproduct of normal contrails)
Disease vector, mind control- Wouldn't bet on it... as no true evidence seems likely...
BUT WAIT... there is historical precidence... it has happened before, so why not now?

Now, there were a few notable "terrorism related" sprayings that occured, but they were to test the possibilities of an enemy using cropdusters to spread anthrax/other, and whether a radar could detect a dispersal...

This article contains the evidence of these tests, as well as several very real exposures to various aircraft released diseases in my wonderful Home state of Oklahoma- source, local NBC affiliate
NBC affiliate confirms Oklahoma was early cold war, Disease spraying experiment zone.

Gee what a wondeful state I live in...
Also... people in surrounding communities of Stillwater (Mulhall in particular) have an extremly high incidence of nuerologic disorders and diseases... (mainly parkinsons disease)
The locals have attributed this to their well water... and perhaps it is...

as the article states...

Government records show florescent particles of zinc cadmium sulfide were released in Stillwater in 1962. "Cadmium itself is known to be one of the most highly toxic materials in small amounts that a human can be exposed to," Cole said.

Could Oklahomans have been made sick by that all those years ago could they still have lingering effects from it?

"If there were concentrations of it enough to make one sick, you could have serious consequences, a person over a period of time could have illnesses that could range from cancer to organ failures," Cole said.


no followup medical studies were done...

Stillwater is now a college town (Oklahoma State University) and has mostly a seasonal and changing population... but the long term rural residents of surrounding areas aren't so safe...



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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hi there here is a pic of today in the uk 12th oct 2006.
it was the WORST DAY EVER for trails......as can be seen in this image:




snoopyuk



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Ok Howard...
I see that you missed the explanation of how clouds are formed by these methods (dispersing agent, and reagent- to form cloud, from the "chemtrail")

from my link previous:

Experiments have been done by dispersing a hygroscopic substance. . .



Dude, you left out the best parts of that patent application.


In the old days, people in this North-East region cleverly launched a firework as shown in FIG. 2 to function as a traditional cloud seeding device to cause chemical burning underneath the cloud resulting in rainfall. They had to carefully observe behavior of the frogs in the locality as it is well-known that frogs are animal able to indicate the possibility of rainfall. When there was severe draught, people in the village would also perform a cat procession to beg for rain. These components are prior arts and are drawn at the lower part of FIG. 2. Statistically, the people would unpredictably get the rain they need due to the inefficiency of the procedure.

The `Royal Rainmaking Technology` is therefore developed to make rain to fall onto a target area successfully by applying this invented technology and using aircraft. This technology provides sufficient fresh water supplies which may otherwise rapidly become inadequate to serve a growing water demand in each part of the country. It is now further developed to manage the weather especially cloud and rain formation in many different circumstances. The uppermost drawing of FIG. 2 shows a Thai prior belief of a `Supreme God` named `Pra Indhra` riding in his special vehicle, `a flying cart`, used for rainmaking operation in Thai legend. A goddess called `Manimekhala`, a computer-drawing by HIS MAJESTY THE KING at the upper left of FIG. 2, symbolizes the Meteorological Service performing one of the key roles in the rainmaking operation.




Seriously, there are a number of claims and statements made in that application that make no sense whatsoever.


Experiments have been done by dispersing a hygroscopic substance such as sea salt powder from an airplane to catch the humidity in the air and then followed by a cold substance (for instance, dry ice) to condense the humidity to form cloud.


This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. A hydroscopic substance would absorb the water vapor, lowering the relative humidity.


calcium carbide (very warm--formula 9). The latter formula 9 has now been discontinued as it is rather dangerous


No (kiddiing) Sherlock!


Technology is now successfully developed to form cloud in an area where water is plenty, move the cloud formed and attack to cause rainfall in the area in need of water.


“Cloud wranglers in the Sky!”


This technology can be applied in many various circumstances to manage rainfall such as lifting a cloud mass stuck to a mountain top upwind to pass over and fall as rain in the area downwind located on the other side of the mountain.


Don’t you just hate it when clouds get stuck on mountains.


[edit on 12-10-2006 by HowardRoark]



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 03:43 PM
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Go ahead and make fun of the Thai Governments "dumbed down" version in laymans terms for the Thailand general population... along with some propaganda twist...

but fact remains...
the process qualifies as "Chemtrail" in the definition we are working with...

But I notice you make no comment on the later point of verified Chemical exposures of the "illness or disease causing Chemtrails" that even surprised me... and I have lived here all my life...

No comment... or do you say "Uncle"?

BTW, I used the first reference on the search page for the Thailand reference...
Should I list the other 19? I am hopeful that at least one will be in scientific terms for your needs...


Howard... have a great day.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by PisTonZOR

Rofl, you can't spell, your posts lack logic, you claim I am following you, you think I should be warned for posting in your threads, your active hours are usually after 3PM and yet you claim I am an idiot who goes to school? Granted, I do go to school, but atleast my posts are logical, atleast I'm not a hypocrit, and atleast I can spell, unlike you.



So you are debating chemtrails and you have only been paying attention to the sky for what, 6-10 years? Since the time the skies have changed? OMG I cannot believe it! I am sure you are a bright individual, but this is something that takes experience from way before the mid to late 90's of being a sky whacher to be able to tell the difference. I have been looking at the sky for over 30 years. "Cant keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I". Quote from my favorite song, Learning to Fly, by Pink Floyd.

Howard, so how old are you? Are you still in high school. or just finishing up college?

Edit to add: I really think young people can have wisdom beyond their years, but this really does take good ole real life eye witness experience. You cant learn this from a book, or pictures you had to have been paying attention to the skies way before the change.


[edit on 13-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Howard, so how old are you? Are you still in high school. or just finishing up college?


Son, I graduated college before you were born. (Say Hi to your mama for me.
)



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Howard, so how old are you? Are you still in high school. or just finishing up college?


Son, I graduated college before you were born. (Say Hi to your mama for me.
)


Son I am a 44 year old man. My mother is dead. You should be warned for that remark!



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 04:11 PM
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My apologies.

That is the problem with making assumptions about someone in an internet forum.


BTW, we could be classmates.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
So you are debating chemtrails and you have only been paying attention to the sky for what, 6-10 years? Since the time the skies have changed? OMG I cannot believe it! I am sure you are a bright individual, but this is something that takes experience from way before the mid to late 90's of being a sky whacher to be able to tell the difference. I have been looking at the sky for over 30 years. "Cant keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I". Quote from my favorite song, Learning to Fly, by Pink Floyd.


No, I am 17, did work experiance at a airport and I'm getting my PPL (Hopefully my CPL soon). I can guarantee I know allot about planes, weather, and how things run in the Aviation buisness. Hell my Dad's been a pilot for 30years.

[edit on 13-10-2006 by PisTonZOR]



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Piston all that does not matter. It depends on a comparitve perspective. You dont have any idea of what the sky looked like before the operations started. You would had to have been there, this is one of the reasons this program will work whatever that is. If they can make it a tin foil hat scientificlly taboo subject until people forget what it used to be like, or young poeple like yourself that do not know any better because you were not there, when all contrails were contrails.

I have always been very sceptical of anything that was not proven by science. The first time I witnessed chemtrail I had no idea what to call it, I knew something was really different. All of my life contrail were nearly straight over head, it has to do with the altitude of contrails triginometry and the distance the human eye can see through the atmosphere. Then one day in 1999 I was searching the sky for aircraft and it was such a strange feeling. It was like I was looking at a different sky completly. I accually said under my breathe WTF is going on with those contrails! They were right off the horizon completly crossing the sky. A lot of them. You cannot see something on the horizon that is at the altitude contrails form. It was very confusing and downright disorienting.

I didnt have a name for it then, and when I first saw the subject on the Internet I thought, chemtrails? give me a break. Well I figured it was something else, but after some heavy spraying over a few years and this very different sky I took a second look with an open mind. I knew the logistics were impossible, but I also was seeing something inexplainible.

I really dont know what else to tell you...

Good luck


[edit on 14-10-2006 by LoneGunMan]




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