i was inspired to wonder: why are we the only intelligent organized race on this planet?(IE why are there no elves, hobbits, etc.) or, if you believe so, what other races might exist that we may not know about? theres testimony of "forest nymphs" and "elves", but none of this can be proven. im at a loss on this issue, so id like some of your input.

because we ate all the others.

in more ways then one.

Originally posted by Fury
because we ate all the others.

in more ways then one.

you seem to be on a rampage fury
LOL
on a more serious note.....
cannibalism? what if..

I dont think you should even consider looking in the direction of forest nymphs or elves. I have seen things about them in some books and things of that nature. I think there was a series of books that dealt with alot of that stuff. It had photo's and testimony. If you want I will get the name of the books. The thing is, testimony and evidence on those subjects can be just as easily explained away with logic and reasoning as it can be taken as prrof of other inteligent life. Try looking back at the science behind the evolution of earths many creatures. Im sure someone has already started looking for answers to the same question in more detail than you or me. (Although it is clearly documented that underpants gnomes come at night to make some sort of profit.)

if you suggest we dont look in that direction, where should we look?

What about dolphins? They're pretty bright....they just don't have hands, the poor guys....

Like I said, I think you should look in the direction of the evolution of animals on earth. You never know, You might find out that there once was elves.

Planet earth has been around for Billions of years. What makes you think that other intelligent races or civilizations have not existed. Maybe they did and they were wiped out.

It was a long winter.... I got hungry.

Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
i was inspired to wonder: why are we the only intelligent organized race on this planet?(IE why are there no elves, hobbits, etc.) or, if you believe so, what other races might exist that we may not know about? theres testimony of "forest nymphs" and "elves", but none of this can be proven. im at a loss on this issue, so id like some of your input.

Frankly, there's a bit of a problem here because of the definition of intelligence. A lot of animals show intelligence, and a number of them are tool users and pass along culture.

We happen to be the top predator and top tool user around and this has given us dominance. There are some theories, however, that our pets (notably dogs) have learned to adapt so that they receive the benefits of our tool using without the stress. They also exhibit culture (patterns of social behavior) and intelligence and are very much in tune with us.

I remember an old article (from back when I was in junior high)... something silly about a cat psychologist giving a battery of tests to a human and discovering that it lacked intelligence (couldn't find a mouse, couldn't scent food, couldn't jump to get a reward, couldn't kill using claws, bad balance, etc.) It made a very good point, though -- intelligence is hard to define and if we don't learn what it is, how can we recognize (and deal with) intelligent alien species when we meet them?

I think that there are plenty of intelligent species (species is a more accurate term, instead of races), like the afore-mentioned dolphin, the dolphin is every bit as intelligent as we are, the only problem is they are lacking other neccesities to develop some sort of civilizations. There are some creatures that i believe are evolutionarily very close to being able to develop some form of civilization, like octopii or other similiar creatures (squid/cuttlefish), they are able to manipulate things very finely (i remember when i worked at an aquarium, they had to have this huge elaborate lock/box thing on the octopuss cage so he wouldn't unlock his cage and get out), they display elaborate language and communication (watch 2 cuttlefish meet, they display some remarkable rapid color changes that alot of scientists are realizing may be a complete complex language) and they are very intelligent, i just think they have a little farther to come on the intelligence level before they can make it, so just give it time (not in our lifetime but you know what i mean)

'intelligent organized race "
We Are ? I Guess So....
Probably because if there was competition
with another species we would Kill Them or be killed
by them Its just Our Way........
theres A fair bit of evidence this has happened Already...

I highly doubt that dolphins are as intelligent as we are. They may respond well, and learn, but so can a dog. A monkey can do that too. Well darn, I'd have to say plenty of animals can do that. Yes, dolphins may have a high level of intelligence, But that is for an animal. I would be willing to consider a dolphin being as smart as me if you could show me proof though.

Originally posted by Seapeople
I highly doubt that dolphins are as intelligent as we are. They may respond well, and learn, but so can a dog. A monkey can do that too. Well darn, I'd have to say plenty of animals can do that. Yes, dolphins may have a high level of intelligence, But that is for an animal. I would be willing to consider a dolphin being as smart as me if you could show me proof though.

Hey! I won't have you humans talking # about my people! Just because we perform tricks for fish and routinely get cut up and mixed with tuna doesn't mean that we aren't smart! The life of a dolphin is hard, but we persevere....do you know how hard it is to type with a flipper?
Be warned humans, your time is almost up.....

[Edited on 11/7/2003 by Flinx]

AYYYY!

I know where you live dophins. Us Seapeople have secretly been gathering intel and are prepared to stop you from taking over the world!

I laughed when I saw the titile of this thread. Us, intelligent? Riiight. Let me go grab your straightjacket.

I always wondered, if we gave dogs access to our bodies, with the opposable thumbs and all, and the brain that can process a lot at one time, would they build a rocket?

the question is, would it still be a dog if it has our body and our brain? ahhh, no?

Originally posted by Cyrus
on a more serious note.....
cannibalism? what if..

Actually, from what I understand, archeologists have defined only *two* prehistoric religious rituals: The use of Red Earth (Although *exactly how* they used it is unsure; Perhaps as a type of body paint to ward off evil spirits & such) & cannabilism (To gain the strength of the vanquished).

However, from what I've seen of the arceological records, there were primarily *two* other hominid species that directly competed with Homo Habilis (One of our earliest ancestors): Australopithecus Robustus ( A large vegetarian ape) & Australopithecus Africanus (A small junior-grade hominid). The former rival held on longer than the latter (Who was small enough to be easily pushed aside) probably due to the intimidation factor of its sheer size...But since they were simple vegetarians, they never developed the brains, culture & tool-use that Habilis had; They were gradually forced to run & hide from Habilis, giving up their favorite gathering grounds.

I've heard of a theory that Sasquatch, Yeti & other such "bigfoot type" species might even be the remote descendants of the Robustus, surviving & evolving by hiding from the early humans...Which might explain the reason for their rareness & elusiveness...

Originally posted by Flinx
What about dolphins? They're pretty bright....they just don't have hands, the poor guys....

Well, if you read in the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" five-book trilogy (That's a story in itself), particularly the book entitled "So Long & Thanks for All the Fish" you might not feel so bad for the dolphins...


In a nutshell though, human arogance has assumed that the dolphins were less intelligent than humans because they've never invented the wheel, wars & such...But the dolphins considered themselves more intellignet *because* of those same reasons...


When you think about it, it makes a kind of sense...After all, dolphins are more evolutionarily adapted to their environment than humans are adapted to theirs. We seek to adapt the environment to ourselves rather than adapt to the environment we live in...Which is screwing up the environment for all of the other species as well...

Originally posted by Byrd
A lot of animals show intelligence, and a number of them are tool users and pass along culture.

Actually, the other species only use "found" tools, such as the California Sea Otter uses carfully-chosen rocks to break open oysters & the chimp strips leaves from twigs to fish for termites...But only the hominid species (From Homo Habilis onward) actually *created* tools...And we seem to have gone in a downward spiral ever since...

Originally posted by KKing123
There are some creatures that i believe are evolutionarily very close to being able to develop some form of civilization, like octopii or other similiar creatures (squid/cuttlefish), they are able to manipulate things very finely...

I remember a show on the Discovery Channel some years ago...To test the intelligence of an octopus, they put a crab (their favorite food) in a mason jar; While filming the octopus, he actually figured out how to *unscrew the lid of the jar* to get to the crab!

Also on the same show, they showed some observations on cuttlefish as well...It seems that they actually make *intentional use* of their color-changing ability to "hypnotize" their prey (For easier capture) with swiftly-changing, symetric patterns.

Like the dolphin, whales (specifically the type that "sing") have a sophisticated language...And they can hear other singing for miles. They even duplicate what they hear from other whales in order to "pass on" the messages!

It's just like human arrogance to assume that no other lifeforms have developed intelligence, simply because they didn't also develop a "civilization"...The other intelligent lifeforms have all been here *longer* than us *because* they fit their environment, rather than trying to *change* it. So who is *really* more intelligent?...

information anywhere, other than those truly with their souls intact, that proves modern man is intelligent...

most men do as they are told, speak what they are told, and act with emotional responses as they are told...

on the contrary some men are thinkers but that number is very limited being the way the village raises the children...

if reciting information that you were given is intelligence than our(supposed) creation computers are much more intelligent than we are...

but alas that is not mans true potential...

we have the ability to think, reason, and act on our own accord...

he who calls himself intelligent or any other thing for that matter is far from it...

the first step of the way is understanding that you know nothing...

I think... we call ourselves intelligent because we have acces to much information... which makes the technologie etc. possible. If you were born in a fores without that information... you would be just like Mogli...

Are we going to say we are smart because we have the abbility to communicate in such a way... or are we going to say that animals could also do it... if they had the right voice to speak a language...

You must admit... Mogli (the person which grew up with wolves) didn't speak much either... just grr and grrrrrr.

If we would say that intelligence is not more then just information which we get... were would we then still stand with our intelligence in respect of animals...?