Did Osiris really die?

I'm just an armchair reader/researcher

yup otherwise you'd have realised that Egyptian Osiris was based on Sumerian Dumuzid a long time ago and worked out why he's the only deity mentioned on the Sumerian Kings list
woulda kinda answered your question really Beth wouldn't it
you have read the descent of Inanna right ?

Originally posted by undo
The land of the dead, otherwise known as the Land of No Return (for humans anyway), is accessed via a series of subterranean "gates", which, from what I can tell, has been completely confused by modern day interpreters to mean all manner of things EXCEPT that it was a series of Gates to another place (and considering that's exactly what the story says, you gotta wonder if they thought the ancient people didn't know the difference between a gate and dirt or a gate and the ocean or a gate and a lake or a gate and underground rivers, etc).

'Gate' was sometimes used to refer to a mountain pass. For example, the Caspian Gate

Even in scotland we colloquially refer to a certain mountain pass as the 'Gates of Affric' (though this is a very modern terms).

May or may not be relevant in this case .......

Originally posted by Essan


'Gate' was sometimes used to refer to a mountain pass. For example, the Caspian Gate

Even in scotland we colloquially refer to a certain mountain pass as the 'Gates of Affric' (though this is a very modern terms).

May or may not be relevant in this case .......

Aye, the "mountains" and "holy mountains" of Sumer were not the mountain ranges, rather, they were the "ziggurats." Enlil, the Great Mountain. Obviously, Enlil wasn't a mountain, but his E.KUR was a mountain, a great mountain, a holy mountain, a ziggurat.

It's also relevant to note that the names of these places are often synonyms for gates, doors, entrances. For example, in one of the definitions of Enki's E.ABZU, it says it has a door like a lion which seizes a man. Doesn't sound like an ordinary door. Have you read the Book of the Gates or rather, seen the artwork in Seti I's tomb in the Valley of the Kings, regarding the Book of What is in the Duat, or the Book of the Netherworld, or even the Book of Gates? The artwork depicts the pharaoh passing through a series of gates, in fact, his entire tomb is a series of gates and corridors, each one further down in the earth, until you finally reach his sarcophagus, beyond which is yet another gate and corridor that continues down below the water table. They haven't excavated past a certain level in that passageway, but the hieroglyphics appear to continue down below the water.

[edit on 23-9-2006 by undo]

Originally posted by Marduk

I'm just an armchair reader/researcher

yup otherwise you'd have realised that Egyptian Osiris was based on Sumerian Dumuzid a long time ago and worked out why he's the only deity mentioned on the Sumerian Kings list
woulda kinda answered your question really Beth wouldn't it
you have read the descent of Inanna right ?

Dumuzid = fertility god, so yeah, tis possible. I see Nimrod more in Enmerkar, however. Especially in the story of Enmerkar and the Lord of Arrata.

it says it has a door like a lion which seizes a man. Doesn't sound like an ordinary door.

it means it has an impressive door that grabs your attention Beth
like the gates of Nimrud at the British museum


they are so impressive thatthe gates to Kongs island were modelled after them



and in turn the gates to Jurassic park were modelled on them



to catch Hollywoods attention something has to grab your attention like a lion siezes a man right

Originally posted by Marduk

it says it has a door like a lion which seizes a man. Doesn't sound like an ordinary door.

it means it has an impressive door that grabs your attention Beth
like the gates of Nimrud at the British museum


they are so impressive thatthe gates to Kongs island were modelled after them



and in turn the gates to Jurassic park were modelled on them



to catch Hollywoods attention something has to grab your attention like a lion siezes a man right

Problem is, that's AFTER Sumer. Sumer, as you know my theories on this, was the site of some very strange goings on. Enki's E.ABZU was very odd, as was his Abzu. Were you aware that Enlil also had an Abzu? Yet his "E.KUR" was not even remotely close to marshland. And for that matter, ancient Abydos had its own Abzu in the form of the Osirieon, most likely built by Nimrod/Enmerkar/Osiris, as a model of Enki's Abzu, which he had only recently tried to reopen when he attempted to rebuild Enki's E.ABZU (called the Tower of Babel or the Etemenanki).

It's all tied together.

I should add that it's my belief that the structures following the mesopotamian flood were attempts to copy and recreate the prior Anunnaki civilization and even some aspects of the biblical one as well. I believe the ziggurats were attempts to depict Enki and Enlil's "spacecraft", since the ziggurats following the mesopotamian flood are simple mudbrick constructions, which, compared to Enki and Enlil's "ziggurats" are mundane and ordinary. Those figures on either side of the door are man's attempt to depict the equivalent of biblical cherubim. It's the same type of reference as that of casting Hathor in the role of both herself and the Eye of Ra, in the Legend of Re and Hathor. Its ability to "fly" is depicted by its wings. Its human appearance, depicted by its head which is attached to a body of that can fly, just as you might expect them to depict something that seems to fly and has an occupant with a human looking head.


[edit on 23-9-2006 by undo]

Undo & Byrd ...the J D Rockerfellas of misinformation and school Text book theory that never seem to sleep.

Ooo...it's good to be back. It's been a while.

The peasents have no proof that Osiris was a real person, a myth a symbol or a story...maybe the smithsonian has his preserved skull in a box..but as for people on ATS...they have nothing but theories so all newbies and those without common sense should really think and research for themselves and not take the word of so called "experts" or people who have had more practice expressing their "force of personality" onto these pages.

There were rumours circulating years ago that russian scientists had excavated the tomb of Osiris...that story was big conspiracy news then it faded...who knows why, we can only speculate.

His connection with Isis and Horus and the famous image of "The All seeing Eye" wraps him up in everything from freemasonary to witchcraft to the background set for Bob Dylan's shows.

Because of the lack of proof regarding his actual existence...if he is dead or alive doesn't matter...what does matter is the similarity of story with another famous figure seeped in mythology....the Big JC..Jesus himself.

Now before Saint4God or one of the other stooges pipes in to discredit, steer the subject away or kill it dead with banality ( it gets more obvious with every passing day) any real student of ancient history with see the obvious parallels between those two characters...they will see the similarity in egyptian and biblical stories..they will wonder what Jesus got up to in his time in egypt...they will question how the child of a poor carpenter could be spirited away in such a manner...how he then returns clued seemingly emmersed in egyptian ritual and mythology.

I could go on..but why waste my breath when there are people frothing at the giblet to dismiss any of this stuff for one reason or another.

For any newbies who want to start an interesting investigation into similarites in Hebrew , Jewish and Egyptian history and mythology before you are corrupted and swayed by the suspiciously skilled Agent Provacateurs that litter this website...I recommend you have a look at Akenaten and work from there.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by JOHNNYMURDER]

Akenaten is a bit late in the day to have anything to do with an undying God doesn't he
Osiris predates him by millenia
Dumuzid predates Osiris by millenia
and what does Jesus have to do with real history anyway
he's a literary figure isn't he ?

lol Rockfellas? lol Oh gosh. I'm still laughing at that one, O He of Superior Intellect. Why do you sound suspiciously like Marduk? Things that make you go hmmm...

Ake or Akhe? en.wikipedia.org...

Akhe

Why do you sound suspiciously like Marduk

i'm sure hes overwhelmingly flattered by that Beth
however Marduk always posts as Marduk
otherwise how would people know who I am
this is about the fifth time though thats someones said that about another poster
normally because they sound brilliant and well informed i expect

The Death and Resurrection of Ausar is symbolic of the Drama that every Christified Master must perform.


See: Metu Neter Volume I by Ra Un Nefer Amen



And see this:


www.gnosticteachings.org...




And:

The Mysteries of Halloween


...The first day of Jonah within the great fish (Leviathan-Lucifer) is the First Mountain of Initiation, Alchemical Birth. The second day is the Second Mountain, Mystical Death, at the end of which is Resurrection. The third day within the great fish (Leviathan-Lucifer) is the Third Mountain, Sacrifice. Thus, after three days Jonah is a Resurrected Master. He lives in harmony with the Great Law and is ready to do the work of his Father as an awakened avatar of the Christ. He is “vomited” upon dry land, because he is no longer permitted to work within the waters of Alchemy. The proper use of the sexual force that was utilized to create the Twice Born is now prohibited to him. The work of the seven days of creation of the true Human Being is complete and the sex belongs to the Monad now.


Thus, Isis could only find thirteen pieces (Arcanum 13, see above) of the dead God Osiris. The fourteenth piece, his phallus, was swallowed by a fish, never to be found thereafter. His phallus was lost forever, because as a resurrected Master he was prohibited from the sexual act. Every lustful element was already dead in him. He had attained perfection in the sex. Therefore, Isis replaced his phallus with a member of gold. The lead of the ego was transmuted into the gold of the consciousness. Deep within the Mountain is found the fiery forge of Vulcan. It is here that the mysteries of Daath are cast.


Thus the Master Jesus explains to the scribes and Pharisees,


Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. - Matthew 22:29-32

Only the Twice Born, who has died within himself and been born “of water and of the (fire of the) Holy Spirit”, is truly living.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. - John 3:6

Those whom have not completed the Great Work are truly dead. They are no better than “whitened sepulchers”, with the appearance of beauty and Virtue on the outside, while containing only fetid and rotting corpses (of Ego and spiritual death) within.


God is not the God of the dead, but of the living...

Regards

The Death and Resurrection of Ausar is symbolic of the Drama that every Christified Master must perform.

ok i just gotta ask
whats a christified master

Hi Marduk





Here:

The Christ


...[Color=Red]Authentic primeval Gnostic Christianity comes from Paganism. Prior to Paganism, the Cosmic Christ was worshipped in all cults. In Egypt, Christ was Osiris and whosoever incarnated him was an Osirified one. In all ages there have been Masters who have assimilated the Infinite Universal Christic Principle. In Egypt, Hermes was the Christ. In Mexico, the Christ was Quetzalcoatl. In Sacred India, Krishna is Christ. In the Holy Land, the Great Gnostic Jesus, who was educated in the land of Egypt, was the one who had the bliss of assimilating the Universal Christic Principle, and because of this, he was worthy of being re-baptised with the Seity of Fire and of the Cross, Kristos.

The Nazarene, Jesus-Iesus-Zeus, is the modern man who totally incarnates the Universal Christic Principle. Prior to Jesus, many Masters incarnated this Christic principle of Fire.

The Rabbi of Galilee is a God, because he totally incarnated the Cosmic Christ. Hermes, Quetzalcoatl, Krishna are Gods because they also incarnated the Cosmic Christ.

It is necessary to worship the Gods; they help their devotees. "Ask, and it shall be given you... Knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

Sexual Magic is the art of producing Fire. We can produce Fire, develop it and incarnate the Christ only with the Perfect Matrimony. This is how we become Gods.

The Christic Principle is always the same. The Masters who incarnate it are living Buddhas. Among them there are always hierarchies. The Buddha Jesus is the most exalted Initiate of the Universal White Fraternity...

Although I'm not very familiar with the Kingir-ian, Sumerian, Babylonian, Assyrian, Chaldean, Akkadian, etc. symbolism of the Christ.








I've read a few Zechariah Sitchin books on the subject a few years ago, which means I need to forget just about everything I read from him and find a better source.




Regards







[edit on 7-11-2006 by Tamahu]

the sumerian christ figure is called Dumuzid
he goes to the underworld each year and returns just in time for spring (lucky eh)
he is of course rescued by his girlfriend Inanna
his most notable feature is his false beard made of lapis (sound familiar)
in babylonia hes known as Tammuz and is the God worshipped by freemasons
i think the Assyrians worshipped Tammuz as well but thats far too recent for me to worry about
like yesterday man

I've read a few Zechariah Sitchin books on the subject a few years ago, which means I need to forget just about everything I read from him and find a better source

I like you a lot already

Thank you.

Now I'm beginning to remember some of what I've learned(bits and pieces, although not all from Z.S.)




I'm also reminded of the following:

The Gnosis of Easter


Though Christ a thousand times in Bethlehem be born
And not within thyself, thy soul will be forlorn.

The Cross on Golgotha thou lookest to in vain
Unless within thyself it be set up again.

Easter is one of the primary days of the Christian calendar, commemorating the resurrection of Jesus after his crucifixion. In the West, Easter is celebrated on the Sunday following the full Moon next after the vernal equinox (between Mar. 22 and Apr. 25).

This Holy Day is actually far older than Christianity. The name “Easter” is derived from “Ostara,” the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, fertility, and the rising Sun. This name is a variation on the name of Ishtar, the Babylonian and Assyrian goddess of love and fertility.

Throughout Europe were celebrated rituals and sacrifices in recognition of the movement in nature from death (winter) to life (spring). These traditions were gradually absorbed by the evangelizing Christian movements. But the movement of the Sun, in its triumphant march toward the heavens, has been celebrated by people the world over. The spiritual value of Easter is reflected in the traditions and mythologies of many cultures and religions, all of which symbolize the Esoteric or root meaning: the triumph of the Christ over the Ego of the penitent seeker.

To understand this celebration, and the modern Holy Day of Easter, we must first understand something about the Christ...

Originally posted by Marduk

I've read a few Zechariah Sitchin books on the subject a few years ago, which means I need to forget just about everything I read from him and find a better source

I like you a lot already

LOL


Do you have some good recommended reading on the Sumerian Religion and Culture you can share?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

theres a good list of online sites in thsi Pro Sitcin thread I wrote
do not under any circumstances read anything at this site unless you have a big bag of salt handy
www.sitchin.com...

Originally posted by Marduk
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ooo nice thread. I tend to agree with alot of your initial critiques of his work, although there are some points he makes that are legitimately historical, simply because the original writers of the material, said it themselves.

For the record, Catholicism was a social order as much as a religious one. Some of their concepts such as incorporating pagan themes and holidays , were examples of their social engineering, not christianity itself. If you read the bible, you will see there's certainly no indication that any of their social engineering was "christianity." The teachings of Jesus have little to no resemblance to many of the Papal decrees. It's little wonder the writings of the Apostles were off limits, since the HRC wasn't teaching it, they were teaching pope-ianity.

In other words, it's not honest reporting to claim it was a "christian" concept to include pagan holidays as memorable moments in the life of Christ, simply because the HRE was also a christian organization. It was their social ordering, their attempts to keep the world under the dominion of Rome, that created many of the less than christian themes we read about.
***Which have nothing whatsoever to do with what Jesus taught.** Christianity isn't what we say it is, it's what Jesus says it is. Afterall, He was Christ, not us, not the pope, not the king, not the president, emperor, dictator and so on.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by undo]

although there are some points he makes that are legitimately historical, simply because the original writers of the material, said it themselves.

no he doesn't
and no they didn't
considering that you claim to have never read Sitchin Beth I'm surprised to now finding you claiming to know anything about it
he in fact deliberately invents entire texts to support his conclusions and reinterprets the existing ones to do the same
when you read sitchin you arent reading anything historical at all
thats why his books at my local library are always to be found in the historical fiction section

Originally posted by Marduk

although there are some points he makes that are legitimately historical, simply because the original writers of the material, said it themselves.

no he doesn't
and no they didn't
considering that you claim to have never read Sitchin Beth I'm surprised to now finding you claiming to know anything about it
he in fact deliberately invents entire texts to support his conclusions and reinterprets the existing ones to do the same
when you read sitchin you arent reading anything historical at all
thats why his books at my local library are always to be found in the historical fiction section

You must have that statement confused with another - I have read Sitchin. 2 of his books and parts of his others. Also, I was a member of the yahoo list for awhile, where I would ask legitimate questions regarding Sitchin's material and point out where it didn't make sense and well, they decided they didn't like me very much. lol They all agreed to ignore me if I didn't go away.

The person I haven't read is EDGAR CAYCE.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by undo]