Did Osiris really die?

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posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 07:42 AM
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You know there sure are alot of books out there that include Osiris among the dying and rising gods. But after studying his history, I'm not so sure he "died" in the sense we humans regard as death. For example, on the Shabaka Stone it says:

This is the land ////// the burial of Osiris in the House of Sokar. ////// Isis and Nephthys without delay, for Osiris had drowned in his water. Isis [and Nephthys] looked out, [beheld him and attended to him]. Horus speaks to Isis and Nephthys: "Hurry, grasp him ///."
Isis and Nephthys speak to Osiris: "We come, we take you ///."
////// [They heeded in time] and brought him to [land. He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity]. //////. [Thus Osiris came into] the earth at the royal fortress, to the north of [the land to which he had come...]

To me, this sounds like Osiris was rescued, "they heeded in time" and he entered the "hidden portals" (which were hidden in the earth in the north of Abydos - et.al, in the Osirieon).

Did Osiris escape this life via death or did he use the hidden portals - "He entered the hidden portals" ?




posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 10:37 AM
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you might want to really research 'white powder gold' or Monatomic Gold.. or iridium and rhodium ...

the eqyptians took monatomic gold, they called it MFKTZ, (MufKuttz) ... they took the white gold powder and mixed it with frankencense into cone(pyramid) shaped connicles and ate it...

Many of the pharoahs bodies have NEVER been found... they are said to have entered the field of MFKTZ..

There are a group of people in our direct and distant past who are nick-named ... the death defiers...



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 12:38 PM
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Yes, Osiris really died.

In fact, his body was cut into 14 pieces. There are/were temples at each place where a piece of his body was found. Isis resurrected him and he went to the land of the dead to reign over it. Pharoahs became identified with Osiris.


the eqyptians took monatomic gold, they called it MFKTZ, (MufKuttz) ...


In fact, that's not a word in ancient Egyptian. The word for "gold" was "sau".

The closest to "mfktz" is "Mfk.t", which is actually one of Hathor's titles. No words end in "TZ"... that's not pronouncable by the ancient Egyptians.
www.newton.cam.ac.uk...


they took the white gold powder and mixed it with frankencense into cone(pyramid) shaped connicles and ate it...


I think that if you check the ORIGINAL sources (heiroglyphs and papyri and not the sites that are trying to sell you "monatomic" gold), you will find that this is another lie.

Frankincense is, in fact, poisonous and will make you rather ill. It also tastes nasty. Nobody ate it.
www.suite101.com...



Many of the pharoahs bodies have NEVER been found... they are said to have entered the field of MFKTZ.

The advertising site misled you. The bodies haven't been found because Napoleon's armies raided Egypt for mummies. They were turned into fertilizer, ground into paint, and ground into medicine after being stripped of amulets and jewelry.

www.straightdope.com...

www.iras.ucalgary.ca...



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 01:04 PM
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Yes, I know the 14 pieces thing. It doesn't match up with the Shabaka Stone. Is there a chance, however remote, that both are true, but perhaps one or the other has been applied to the wrong "god" or borrowed from another "god" and due to its antiquity, the original story has either been lost or misconstrued somehow?



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 01:45 PM
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Osiris has to be considered to have died. He was cut into peices, put into a coffin, and buried. Since we're talking about a myth, this clearly means that he died.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Osiris has to be considered to have died. He was cut into peices, put into a coffin, and buried. Since we're talking about a myth, this clearly means that he died.


Have you read the Shabaka Stone? It doesn't say anything about him being cut into pieces. The pharaohs were looking for his burial site in Abydos, so obviously, they didn't think he was a myth. Perhaps they would know better than modern interpreters?



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:04 PM
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With any myth, there are going to be lots of variations. What makes this one the correct one?



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
With any myth, there are going to be lots of variations. What makes this one the correct one?


The pharaohs were actively searching for his burial site in Abydos. This is documented. Perhaps the belief that he had been cut into 14 pieces was a reference that came after the fact. Mayhaps what really happened was, the ancient egyptian priests assigned him a constellation, such as Orion, and the 14 pieces story is really just an astronomy-based one, whereas the Shabaka stone is relating his actual death - he drowned.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:10 PM
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alright I've been misinformed as to how it was ingested and some other details...

but there are stories of certain peoples using white powder gold....

theres even a story about it in the bible, when Moses came down from the mountain and found everyone worshipping the gold calf Moses' Brother Aaron made from everyones gold earings and jewelery..

the story tells how moses burnt and transposed the gold and fed it to the people
and we all know when you burn gold is just melts... so what really did take place?



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
alright I've been misinformed as to how it was ingested and some other details...

but there are stories of certain peoples using white powder gold....

theres even a story about it in the bible, when Moses came down from the mountain and found everyone worshipping the gold calf Moses' Brother Aaron made from everyones gold earings and jewelery..

the story tells how moses burnt and transposed the gold and fed it to the people
and we all know when you burn gold is just melts... so what really did take place?


oy. read the story in the bible and torah please. then come back.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:27 PM
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This thread is actually about Osiris. If you'd like to discuss the Biblical story, this would be a good time to make a separate post about this.

I'd like to keep this topic to Osiris only.




Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
alright I've been misinformed as to how it was ingested and some other details...

but there are stories of certain peoples using white powder gold....

theres even a story about it in the bible, when Moses came down from the mountain and found everyone worshipping the gold calf Moses' Brother Aaron made from everyones gold earings and jewelery..

the story tells how moses burnt and transposed the gold and fed it to the people
and we all know when you burn gold is just melts... so what really did take place?



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:41 PM
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I've considered the "Drowned" thing as a reference to his constellation sinking below the horizon over a body of water, but that area of Egypt (Abydos), doesn't have any large bodies of water for the constellation to "sink" into. The only applicable water is the nile, which doesn't seem wide enough to apply in this instance (the other shore is clearly visible and the constellation would appear to set into the mountains or the desert sands across the way, rather than in the water. Also, the information regarding the search for Osiris' burial spot in Abydos was included in the same voice as the info on the building of the pharaohs temples and such. It doesn't stipulate that they are looking for his head only, either, even though it is said in the 14 pieces story that his head was buried at Abydos. Rather it simply states that pharaoh so-and-so insisted his workers dig up Abydos in search of Osiris' burial place. Since it was considered his "seat" anyway, that kinda makes sense



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:58 PM
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I had a look at the text on the stone (full text) here:
www.touregypt.net...

..and the history, etc here:
maat.sofiatopia.org...

Translation and notes here:
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

The commentary here makes things a little clearer:
maat.sofiatopia.org...

Geb tells Horus to "go to the place where your father was drowned"... and his father is Osiris -- therefore there's little question that Osiris actually died. Horus is by this time an adult and the death of Osiris took place before Horus was born (actually before he was conceived.)

The passage, "[He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity]" refers to the land of the dead.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
I had a look at the text on the stone (full text) here:
www.touregypt.net...

..and the history, etc here:
maat.sofiatopia.org...

Translation and notes here:
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

The commentary here makes things a little clearer:
maat.sofiatopia.org...

Geb tells Horus to "go to the place where your father was drowned"... and his father is Osiris -- therefore there's little question that Osiris actually died. Horus is by this time an adult and the death of Osiris took place before Horus was born (actually before he was conceived.)

The passage, "[He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity]" refers to the land of the dead.



Yes, I know the Lords of Eternity land refers to the land of the dead. I've been researching this particular angle for awhile. The land of the dead, otherwise known as the Land of No Return (for humans anyway), is accessed via a series of subterranean "gates", which, from what I can tell, has been completely confused by modern day interpreters to mean all manner of things EXCEPT that it was a series of Gates to another place (and considering that's exactly what the story says, you gotta wonder if they thought the ancient people didn't know the difference between a gate and dirt or a gate and the ocean or a gate and a lake or a gate and underground rivers, etc).



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by Nygdan
With any myth, there are going to be lots of variations. What makes this one the correct one?


The pharaohs were actively searching for his burial site in Abydos.

And peopel have searched for the burialsite of jesus, that doesn't mean he's real either.


such as Orion, and the 14 pieces story is really just an astronomy-based one, whereas the Shabaka stone is relating his actual death - he drowned.

Interesting idea.

I've considered the "Drowned" thing as a reference to his constellation sinking below the horizon over a body of water, but that area of Egypt (Abydos), doesn't have any large bodies of water for the constellation to "sink" into.

If the 'drowing' is symbolic, then why not the water too? Water is often said to represent the subconscious, perhaps they were making a statement similar to that, in saying that he drowned, that he 'returned the the subconcious/the abyss/formless pre-creation void/etc'.

Another thing to consider is that the many shaman initiation rites apparently invovle dying and returning to life, even dismemberment, burial in a coffin, and then rising again. This might all be a remembrance of those older, pre-egyptian religion, traditions. Indeed, a shaman undergoing the initiation, attaining powers from the formless void and underworld, and then returning as master of death, and source of the king's power, might make sense in this death, dismemberment, drowning, rising, myth, wherein osiris becomes the judge of the dead and the epitome of the kings.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by undo
I've considered the "Drowned" thing as a reference to his constellation sinking below the horizon over a body of water, but that area of Egypt (Abydos), doesn't have any large bodies of water for the constellation to "sink" into.


In Egyptian theology, Osiris was actually drowned by his brother, Set. It's not symbolic death but real death, and this drowning is referred to in numerous texts. :
en.wikipedia.org...


Also, the information regarding the search for Osiris' burial spot in Abydos was included in the same voice as the info on the building of the pharaohs temples and such.

Is there a reference for this?



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan


And peopel have searched for the burialsite of jesus, that doesn't mean he's real either.

Another thing to consider is that the many shaman initiation rites apparently invovle dying and returning to life, even dismemberment, burial in a coffin, and then rising again. This might all be a remembrance of those older, pre-egyptian religion, traditions. Indeed, a shaman undergoing the initiation, attaining powers from the formless void and underworld, and then returning as master of death, and source of the king's power, might make sense in this death, dismemberment, drowning, rising, myth, wherein osiris becomes the judge of the dead and the epitome of the kings.


And it doesn't mean he isn't real. That's the problem. Assuming he's not, when in fact, he may have been a deified "king", is robbing history because you don't believe anything supernatural or hypernatural is possble. Even if the rest of the information surrounding him is mythological or signs of his deification, if he really lived, and there's plenty to suggest he did, let's not be so quick in assuming he didn't. (I think he's Nimrod, Akkadian Enmerkar, possibly even the Chinese Shu (gotta recheck my figures on shu, though, since I originally established that theory when I mistakenly dated Nimrod to Marduk's time instead of Enmerkar's).

[edit on 22-9-2006 by undo]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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I'm currently trying to find links to Osiris and the white gold powder used in egypt... I apologize for going off topic with the biblical reference.. I'm just not read up on osiris...



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Byrd & Undo... I don't have anything to really contribute to this thread but I just have to say I thoroughly enjoy reading the conversations between you two. You both know a good deal of what you're talking about and I always learn something everytime I read a thread where you are posting... I'm amazed at how much knowledge on ancient civilizations you both have and I can only hope to one day learn some of the things you two are talking about, not just in this thread. Very interesting stuff.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by firebat
Byrd & Undo... I don't have anything to really contribute to this thread but I just have to say I thoroughly enjoy reading the conversations between you two. You both know a good deal of what you're talking about and I always learn something everytime I read a thread where you are posting... I'm amazed at how much knowledge on ancient civilizations you both have and I can only hope to one day learn some of the things you two are talking about, not just in this thread. Very interesting stuff.


Byrd's the pro. I'm just an armchair reader/researcher. Thanks, though.





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