Evidence for God

The weight is on your shoulders to prove the non-existence of the Creator. Can you do that for us without using the fingers, the language, the universe, the energy, and everything that lay within this awesome perfect creation that we are blessed with? I'll give you a hint... its infinite and eternal... omnipresent, omnipotent, omnisentient, and omniscient. Does 'God' the Supreme Creator, the supreme source of all that is... now make sense?

Can omniscient god, who
Knows the future, find
The omnipotence to
Change his future mind?

[Karen Owens]

Very witty and extremely clever. Thought provoking indeed =) I have your answer. God is not a he or a she. God is a culmination of everything that exists and the reason for it; perfection. It's perfect no matter what happens or existence would cease to exist. Happen is because it must and must is because it happens. Perfection always makes the right choices. You are a sentient of the omnisentient. A Creator of your own reality that has been created by the omnisentient.

p.s. Tell T. H. Huxley that nothing was a very important thing for me to learn. Now that I know nothing doesn't exist that means that existence is never ending.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

But none of the above really provides evidence of god. You just seem to say that the universe is perfect therefore god.

Reading from your siggy, you seem to deny the big-bang theory. Do you suggest the universe has always existed in its current state and always will? That stars, the sun, the earth have existed forever.

ABE: it is not for us to provide evidence that a creator doesn't exist, you need to provide evidence he does.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by melatonin]

Correct. Yes, the universe is infinite (we are not in a bubble, rather an infinite expanse existing everywhere infinitely) and eternal; it never had a beginning or an ending. Although, evolution of all things is real. Stars are born, planets do take shape. The creator has no sex. The creator/source is all things. The existence is omnisentient.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality
Correct. Yes, the universe is infinite (we are not in a bubble, rather an infinite expanse existing everywhere infinitely) and eternal; it never had a beginning or an ending. Although, evolution of all things is real. Stars are born, planets do take shape. The creator has no sex. The creator/source is all things. The existence is omnisentient.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Hmm, interesting. So you seem to be almost pantheistic? It's a better position than the notion of a personal god, in my mind.

How can you say our universe is perfect, if you have never seen an unperfect one?

I wouldn't necessarily call it pantheistic. I define my God with the same parameters that are defined in many Bibles... yet I bring it into my existence and with my existence... it is not far away in heaven neverland... it is everywhere that doesn't end.

Originally posted by DarkSide
How can you say our universe is perfect, if you have never seen an unperfect one?

An imperfect universe would cease to exist. Only perfection can exist for existence to continue existing.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality

Originally posted by DarkSide
How can you say our universe is perfect, if you have never seen an unperfect one?

An imperfect universe would cease to exist. Only perfection can exist for existence to continue existing.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

But the evidence suggests that this universe will end.

However, there is a modern theory that we are in just one cosmic cycle of many (Turok and Steinhardt). This universe will expand until all the stars are dead, the universe will be a cold, empty place. But then a new cycle will start from a big-bang and it starts all over again.

Here you seem to be using a Kalam/anthropic type cosmological argument. There are theories that we could change the parameters (physical constants) of the universe and still have a viable universe. Who knows which would be most perfect...maybe the life in that universe would be more 'perfect'....

There's a piece in a recent new scientist about this...

Article Preview

My other universe is a Porsche

05 October 2006
Marcus Chown
Magazine issue 2572
What if the universe we love is just one of many habitable realities? New Scientist meet the adventurers charting the best of all possible worlds
Roni Harnik is an explorer who likes to think big. Foreign continents hold no sway over him. Not even the outer reaches of the solar system appeal. Harnik is a theoretical physicist at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center in California and his expeditions are on a far grander scale: he goes in search of other universes.

Harnik and his colleagues' quest is not as futile as it sounds. Of late, many physicists and cosmologists have begun to believe that our universe is not alone, but instead is one among many. According to this "multiverse" idea, there are many different universes, with myriad possible laws of nature. Not all of them would allow stars and galaxies to form. Even if they did, their twisted laws might not let stars forge the carbon believed to be so crucial for life.

linky

[edit on 15-10-2006 by melatonin]

There's no such thing as less perfect or more perfect. Perfection is perfection. This universe will never end. I don't deal with speculation and Godless theory. All of them are illogical and lacking fundamental components of the imagination, but thank you for your time.

p.s. there is NO evidence suggesting that this universe will end. Just some fat guys laughing in a chair at how they can dupe the entire population of Earth. I do not disagree with multi-dimensions nor do I disagree with multi-universes/multiple timelines. The fact is, is that they all HAVE to be infinite and eternal. Existence is infinite because nothing exists nowhere.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality
This universe will never end. I don't deal with speculation and Godless theory. All of them are illogical and lacking fundamental components of the imagination, but thank you for your time.

p.s. there is NO evidence suggesting that this universe will end. Just some fat guys laughing in a chair at how they can dupe the entire population of Earth. I do not disagree with multi-dimensions nor do I disagree with multi-universes/multiple timelines. The fact is, is that they all HAVE to be infinite and eternal. Existence is infinite because nothing exists nowhere.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

OK, for someone who doesn't deal in speculation you actually seem to rely on a lot of it. Just stating something is fact, does not make it true, some form of evidence usually helps.

The evidence is from cosmological theory using general relativity. There are various scenarios, most end with death of the universe, as we know it, in some way.

"Making the universe we know perfect: session 1."

a. this planet would have unlimited resources.

b. the sun would not expand to destroy the solar sytem in 4 billion years.

c. andromeda will not collide with our galaxy at around the same time.

d. the cosmological constant would ensure that expansion doesn't lead to a big freeze (or less likely, big crunch).


But yeah, thanks for the discussion.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by melatonin]

The fact is, is that they all HAVE to be infinite and eternal. Existence is infinite because nothing exists nowhere.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

where's your evidence? that's quite something to claim without supporting evidence.

Originally posted by DarkSide
The Bible doesn't provide any evidence whatsoever to the things it claims either.
And if there were camels living in judea there would have been evidence, like fossils and other traces they would leave in any region they'd live in. No traces, no camels.

The Bible doesnt claim to be a scientific book. What type of evidence are you expecting? Camels did live in Judea. But the argument put forth was they didnt live there in the time the Bible states. How is it possible to determine if there were no camels in a period of time in a specific area?

Originally posted by LancerJ1
As i said before if God is real then the Bible has to be true. God cannot lie.

First you will need to prove it's existence, but that's not possible.

I cannot prove God through conclusive evidence. But i can and have shown through reasoning why he could exist.

Originally posted by LancerJ1
Out of all major world religious leaders, Jesus was the only one who actually claimed to be God, claimed he could give eternal life, claimed he could give forgiveness at a future judgment and claimed that his teaching was for every person of all ages in the world.

Except he died on the cross, and was buried. There is no proof of the resurrection.

Originally posted by LancerJ1
The existence of Jesus is a fact. Either if you believe he is the Son of God or just an ordinary human, you cannot dispute the evidence that there was a man named Jesus. There are historical documents from biblical times from respected non-Christian and anti-Christian writers and scholars that refer to Jesus and his claim he was God.

There are many people named Jesus, a few of them work in the landscaping profession, or take jobs away from Union workers, or are sitting in jail right now.
I would like to see irrefutable proof, excluding the bible, of these "anti-christian and non-christian" writers that support the myth of christ.

Originally posted by LancerJ1Would you die for a lie?

Look at history, look at the human race then ask that question ... humans die for lies every day.

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
Except he died on the cross, and was buried. There is no proof of the resurrection.

Except many eyewitness accounts.

There are many people named Jesus, a few of them work in the landscaping profession, or take jobs away from Union workers, or are sitting in jail right now.
I would like to see irrefutable proof, excluding the bible, of these "anti-christian and non-christian" writers that support the myth of christ.

What do you call irrefutable proof? I gave some links to non-christian sources. Here's one more. www.law.umkc.edu... ianaccounts.html

The bible is obviously the biggest collection of accounts. Why do i have to exlude the Bible? Paul was an anti-Christian but he saw Jesus after the resurrection and became a Christian and wrote many of the books of the New Testament.

Originally posted by LancerJ1
Would you die for a lie?

Look at history, look at the human race then ask that question ... humans die for lies every day.

But for a lie that you new was a lie?

Originally posted by DarkSide

The fact is, is that they all HAVE to be infinite and eternal. Existence is infinite because nothing exists nowhere.

[edit on 15-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

where's your evidence? that's quite something to claim without supporting evidence.

When you can present me with nothing then I will agree that the big bang occurred and manifested out of nothing that doesn't exist and I will bow at your feet to the universe being inside of a bubble with "nothing" outside of it. Until that day I rest my case on the intellect of a genius mind that I call my own. I'm sorry if the majority of you cannot understand it and perhaps the stance I am taking is a bit harsh, but there are times when I cannot take the ignorace of this species. On the contrary have a great day and I hope you at least consider thinking about what I'm presenting.

p.s. 99% of this planet cannot accept what perfection is because they are too caught up in narcissism to see that it is all perfect exactly the way it is. An imperfect machine fails to continue running, make a bilateral comparison with reality and this infinite universe and you'll recognize that it is perfect just the way it is no matter what happens. Happen is perfect, perfect is happen. Happen is because it must, must is because it happens. The Creator has already been described to us if one wishes to read its descripton in the Bible. It's not about organized religion, it's not about converting or brownie points, it's about living a life of perfection because it's what everything is, it's what we are, it's what The Creation is and it's what The Creator is... a binomial created for the omnisentient that is really one; both the creator and the creation. If one wants evidence for God/Creator, it is being presented before your very eyes.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by LancerJ1

The Bible doesnt claim to be a scientific book. What type of evidence are you expecting? Camels did live in Judea. But the argument put forth was they didnt live there in the time the Bible states. How is it possible to determine if there were no camels in a period of time in a specific area?

So you just read the bible and assume something is true just because it's written? Maybe in 2000 years people will read hanzel and gretel and believe there were witches living in houses made of candy...

Originally posted by UbiquitousInfiniteReality
When you can present me with nothing then I will agree that the big bang occurred and manifested out of nothing that doesn't exist

The big bang is a phase the universe went through, not it's apparition out of nothing.

Hahaha, this is what I'm talking about. Before you even try to comprehend what I'm saying you conceive a narcissistic statement about where my knowledge was derived. Then you stick to something that you yourself can't prove, nor can anyone else. It's a theory that will never be proved.

Get this through your heads! NOTHING IS NON EXISTENCE, IT DOESN'T EXIST! EVER! NEVER! CANNOT EXIST, IT IS NON-EXISTENCE. NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING. NO EXISTENCE.

Like I said, when you, when anyone presents me with NOTHING I will accept that we live in a bubble with NOTHING outside of it and that existence came into existence out of NOTHING from a faulty big bang. No one being in this entire universe can or ever will prove these words wrong. I stand by the Creator and the Creation that is within my intelligence that is a fragmented sentient of the omnisentient. I make sense and provide logical evidence. You grab onto tid bits of information that you find from some brain-dead scientist who lost his mind while searching the origins of the universe without the attributes of God in his heart. Enjoy your illogical ignorance, all of you who disagree and cannot concentrate on what is being presented for 10 minutes before saying, "the big bang!".

WE EXIST, WE EXIST, WE EXIST, WE LIVE IN EXISTENCE, WE EXIST, WE EXIST, WE EXIST. NON EXISTENCE DOESN'T EXIST. NOTHING IS NON EXISTENCE.

[edit on 16-10-2006 by UbiquitousInfiniteReality]

Originally posted by DarkSide

Originally posted by LancerJ1

The Bible doesnt claim to be a scientific book. What type of evidence are you expecting? Camels did live in Judea. But the argument put forth was they didnt live there in the time the Bible states. How is it possible to determine if there were no camels in a period of time in a specific area?

So you just read the bible and assume something is true just because it's written? Maybe in 2000 years people will read hanzel and gretel and believe there were witches living in houses made of candy...

A poor comparison. Everyone knows hanzel and gretel is a story. There isnt a mass religion following it and hasnt transformed the lives of millions of people. It is purposely a fictional story. On the other hand the Bible is a collection of accounts, both eyewitness and God inspired. It is bountiful in historical information. The people in it were real. Why in 2000 years would people not know hanzel and gretel to be a story anymore? How would that change in mind come about?

Ive already gone over why we can trust the bible. Contains eyewitness accounts, no contradictions over the huge time span the bible encompasses, historical facts, contains some scientific information not known in its day, it is the only religious book that contains many many specific prophecies that have been fulfilled.

WHY WE CAN TRUST THE BIBLE

Here is a site that contains more information about the credibility of the bible than i could ever post here, there are links in a box at the bottom for more info. Please take the time to read it, over a period of time if need be. If this doesn't impress you, nothing will.
www.biblestudy.org...