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Originally posted by longbow
I just think even in WVR the maneuvrability will be not longer necessary.
Originally posted by Figher Master FIN
That's exactly where it all goes wrong.
Originally posted by Zaphod58
And as I quoted earlier, new decoys are being developed that ARE effective. They have decoys in testing now that are like a decoy torpedo used with a sub. The plane fires it off, and it gives a huge radar and IR signature to distract a missile.
The AIM-9X is a supersonic, air-to-air, guided missile which employs a passive IR target acquisition system, proportional navigational guidance, a closed-loop position servo Control Actuation Section (CAS), and an AOTD. The AIM-9X is launched from an aircraft after target detection to home in on IR emissions and to intercept and destroy enemy aircraft. The missile interfaces with the aircraft through the missile launcher using a forward umbilical cable, a mid-body umbilical connector and three missile hangars. The AIM-9X has three basic phases of operation: captive flight, launch, and free flight.
The AIM-9X utilizes the existing AIM-9M AOTD, warhead, and rocket motor, but incorporates a new Guidance Section (GS), new hangars, a new mid-body connector, new harness and harness cover, new titanium wings and fins, and a new CAS. The missile is propelled by the AIM-9M solid-propellant rocket motor, but uses a new Arm and Fire Device (AFD) handle design. Also, the AIM-9M rocket motor is modified to mount the CAS on its aft end. Aerodynamic lift and stability for the missile are provided by four forward-mounted , fixed titanium wings. Airframe maneuvering is accomplished by four titanium control fins mounted in line with the fixed wings and activated by the CAS, which includes a thrust vector control system that uses four jet vanes to direct the flow of the rocket motor exhaust. The AIM-9X is configured with the AIM-9M Annular Blast Fragmentation (ABF) warhead, which incorporates a new Electronic Safe and Arm Device (ESAD) to arm the warhead after launch. The AIM-9M AOTD is used to detect the presence of a target at distances out to the maximum effective range of the missile warhead and command detonation.
Guidance Section. The GS provides the missile tracking, guidance, and control signals. It consists of three major subassemblies: (1) a mid-wave IR Focal Plane Array (FPA) seeker assembly for detecting the target, (2) an electronics unit that converts the detected target information to tracking and guidance command signals, and (3) a center section containing the cryoengine, contact fuze device, two thermal batteries, and required harnesses and connectors. The coolant supply for the GS is provided by the twin-opposed-piston, linear drive, Stirling cryoengine.
Well effectively the way it would get into WVR range would be by extended missile use. In order to shoot a missile most effectively the idea would be to point oneself at the target. Since a plane moves forward in order to fly you would therefore move toward the enemy jets. Assuming the other jets are also attacking with missiles and/or coming with full burner the distance can close fairly fast. Fairly.
I imagine that also depending on who was intercepting what, the WVR-inducing jets would come in low level so that detection is a tad harder. If you can't see it coming, then you may or may not have an issue.
My personal feeling is that fighter agilty is very highly necessary. As the U.S. gets involved in more of these large-scale, politically sensitive wars, there are going to be far more restrictions on what U.S. aircraft can target. As a result, I think we'll be seeing fewer and fewer BVR engagements. Which is not bad, because the Sidewinder is actually the best AAM in the inventory, despite all the propaganda you've heard about the Sparrow and the AMRAAM. Missiles are always better at shorter ranges, no matter how lesser they are technology-wise than radar-guided medium-range AAMs.
And before WestPoint23 and others decide to go on a rant about how ROEs are stupid and for sissy liberals, realize that ROEs prevent fratricide, killing of innocent civilians, and most importantly, it makes sure missiles aren't wasted on unnecessary targets.
This is your problem. You take everything for granted. Yes, most likely the missile will hit the plane and destroy it. But what if it doesn't. Do you really wanna sit in your chair at home and think, "we should have spent more money on manoverability".
You all need to know that back in the 1st gulf war the latest version of the sparrow hit 9% of the time and the latest version of the sidewinder hit 23% of the time.
Originally posted by longbow
I don't understand why are the fighter manufacturers still bothering to make aircrafts highly manuvrable (Cobra, Thrust vectoring etc.). I don't say it because of new stealth designs, but because of new missiles. With current missiles and HMS it doesn't matter where enemy is relative to your aircraft you can hit him everywhere especially with lock after launch. I've also heard that russian newest short range missiles can hit aircraft flying BEHIND you - in first phase before IR lock they are guided by small rear radar.