Why the Catholic Church is Disgusting, Immoral and Wicked

Originally posted by forestlady
OK and here's yet another example of the hypocrisy of the RC. Down through the years, many nuns have received abortion because it would have been too embarassing to the Church to admit that some of their nuns had gotten pregnant. And I do remember while traveling through Europe, seeing gravesites where the nuns' illegitimate babies were buried after murdering them.

Seems like the argument that the Catholic Church deems murder worse than rape just doesn't hold water.

That is a real example of double standards.

I am sure that somebody (not counting the mother) knew what was happening and didn't mind.

Some Catholics, including clergy, do not live up to the moral standards of the Catholic faith. That doesn't affect the moral stance that murder is worse than rape. It only affects the moral standing of those who violate it.

Ridiculous. Male speculation that justifies subjecting a child to life-threatening pregnancy at such an early age and life-long trauma. The church with its long history of contempt for the single mothers who came begging at their doors over the ages.


The girl is entitled to an abortion. Medical necessity, should be no question in the case of rape and molestation. She is less a human than her fetus if the condition pre-empts what is medically necessary for her.

Pre-historic and patriarchal mind-control B.S. Let her have a second chance at her young life and let the 'sins' fall where they will - On the bloody rapist.

It's quite a mouthful - equating abortion with murder, when one is willing to sacrifice a child to produce its product.

The first being hypothetical, and the second certain.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by clearwater]

I thought that in the Catholic religion as long as you repent, confess your sins, and accept Jesus Christ as your savior before you die that you will be forgiven, and accepted into Heaven?

If this is true, then isn't excommunication a waste of time?

On another note. . . How can a child raise a child when she isn't thru being raised herself yet? If it were my daughter I would talk with her about the future, but in the end I would probably decide that abortion would be the "best" choice to "give" her a choice in life. Many doors would shut for her becoming a "child mother".

If we could compare all the hardships these kids face in life when this happens and pit them against what happens to the kids that get the abortion I think we'd find that the latter end up living more productive and fulfilling lives. . .

Catholics are sick, they are not christians. They pretend to be on GOd's side, when in fact they ignore all of what is said in the bible. THe girl who underwent abortion should not have been excommunicated as the catholics did, but according to the bible, embraced and loved all the same.

AntiCatholics should not take out their anger toward the Catholic religion on the unborn.

Originally posted by SkyWay
AntiCatholics should not take out their anger toward the Catholic religion on the unborn.

WHAA?

You really think that the parents of this girl allowed her to have an abortion because they're pissed off at the Catholics?

Can you elaborate on that statement? Thanx-

Originally posted by ProveIt
Catholics are sick, they are not christians. They pretend to be on GOd's side, when in fact they ignore all of what is said in the bible. THe girl who underwent abortion should not have been excommunicated as the catholics did, but according to the bible, embraced and loved all the same.

She wasn't excommunicated, the cardinal who said that has no power of doing it, only the local (Colombia) cardinal can do it.

Originally posted by 2PacSade

Originally posted by SkyWay
AntiCatholics should not take out their anger toward the Catholic religion on the unborn.

WHAA?

You really think that the parents of this girl allowed her to have an abortion because they're pissed off at the Catholics?

Can you elaborate on that statement? Thanx-

I was referring to many of the people, such as the ones on this thread, who attack the position of the Catholic church against abortion in an attempt to discredit the church. In their efforts to attack the church by attacking its beliefs, such as the opposition to abortion, they are fascilitating the murder of millions of unborn children. Some of these people support abortion as a cudgel with which to strike at the Catholic church.

Originally posted by ProveIt
Catholics are sick, they are not christians. They pretend to be on GOd's side, when in fact they ignore all of what is said in the bible. THe girl who underwent abortion should not have been excommunicated as the catholics did, but according to the bible, embraced and loved all the same.

And who the hell are you? You know what, I am willing to bet that there are problems/issues with whatever YOUR religion is, and if you are an athiest, well, that speaks for itself.

Don't come on here to slander an entire religion; it might amaze you that there are "good" catholics out there.

and I don't "pretend" to be on God's side, for God is on everyone's side, if you are Catholic or not.

I am evangelical, I'm not saying all catholics are this way, just the higher powers. Some of the stuff that is done is completely against what the bible teaches us. Sorry to use such big words as sick, but it seems that in many situations its the best way to describe it. I think there's a difference between being so called christian or catholic and being a follower of christ. Some catholics and evangelicals are very arrogant about their religion, and have the "I got everything down" attitude that scares people away. Kinda reminds me of the pharisees of old.

[edit on 8.31.06 by ProveIt]

Originally posted by ProveIt
I am evangelical, I'm not saying all catholics are this way, just the higher powers. Some of the stuff that is done is completely against what the bible teaches us. Sorry to use such big words as sick, but it seems that in many situations its the best way to describe it. I think there's a difference between being so called christian or catholic and being a follower of christ. Some catholics and evangelicals are very arrogant about their religion, and have the "I got everything down" attitude that scares people away. Kinda reminds me of the pharisees of old.

[edit on 8.31.06 by ProveIt]

Sounds to me like you are doing a pretty good job of describing your own attitudes and views.

Nobody has been excommunicated. It's all a lot of talk and bluster.

That being said, you may not like their views and beliefs, but you cannot criticize the Catholic Church for following the tenets of their faith, and condemning members of their own flock who on one hand profess to be true believers, while on the other hand commit grave, mortal sin.

I am a simple human being with what I sincerely hope is an adequate degree of humility as it pertains to morality. I do personally believe in a higher consciousness that some could call "God." However, my conception of that "higher power" is one in which humanity retains free will, and freedom of choice. It is my opinion that God - to use the most common moniker - has not acted to intercede in such a way that impugns free will.

I am neither a scientist, nor a physician, nor a theologian. I have absolutely no way of knowing with absolute certainty where or when consciousness or a soul asserts itself in the midst of the physical. I believe that the needless destruction or waste of life harms not only the life form being acted against, but also runs contrary to the true nature of humanity. That is only my opinion, however; an opinion arrived at through free will and freedom of thought. I would not seek to force that opinion on anyone else.

Because I have no way of knowing where or when consciousness is conceived, I have no way of knowing whether abortion would be something I would find acceptable or reprehensible, personally. However, any feelings or beliefs about abortion I would have if I did know those details of the human condition would emerge as the result of a combination of empathy and freedom of thought. As such, I would not and could not force them on another person, or seek to persuade anyone other than myself to share them.

In that context, the only reasonable conclusion I can come to that I find personally acceptable is that the moral acceptability or justification of abortion must lie with the individual human being responsible for judging or justifying the procedure. I therefore support a prospective mother's right to determine for herself what is right. I would support that right even if I considered abortion personally abhorrent.

Hypothetically, I imagine a woman discovering that through some fluke of nature, a tumor growing in her abdomen possessed consciousness (this is analogous to the decision a woman might be faced with if we knew for certain when consciousness becomes a factor during pregnancy.) The question I have to ask in that hypothetical scenario is not, "what would I do if I were that woman?" but rather, "What would I want someone else to do in that scenario?" and "To what extent should what I (or anyone else) want influence that person's decisions or decision making powers?" Another good analogy might be two Siamese twins. If one can be saved at the cost of the other, should both be allowed to die? Obviously, the mother's health is not always going to be at risk when abortion is being considered, but I am trying to point out how murky the decision can be even when we do know concrete things such as:

a) Lives are at stake
and
b) All the lives at stake possess consciousness

...which isn't always the case when an abortion is considered or performed.

These sorts of moral dilemmas are not things I have any inherent ability to judge for other people. I am not God, nor am I a perfect human being. For those reasons, above all, I choose to believe that these decisions should be made by prospective mothers, or prospective mothers in consultation with - should she believe in and commune/communicate with one - their respective deities/"higher powers."

It simply isn't my place to judge anyone. It is my hope that this will serve as an example of how someone can be "pro-choice" and "pro-life" simultaneously. They are not mutually exclusive. Things aren't that black and white, in my opinion. As always, however, I respect the views of those who disagree with me.

This is just to add that the doctor and the other hospital personnel that help during the abortion, apparently, were excommunicated, at least the priest of the hospital's church warned them that they could enter the church but they could not receive communion.

Source (in Spanish)

Originally posted by ArMaP

Double standards, with one hand they preach Abortion is an offence, while they do not class molestation or the rape of young boys in the same catergory .

I don't think it as double standards, almost every country considers murder worst than rape, why shouldn't the Catholic Church have the same principle?

I think what Spencerjohnstone meant was; why do the Catholic Church class abortion as evil if they are happy to protect child molesting priests?

(Correct me if i'm wrong on that interpretation)

Looking at this in religiously moral perspective:

(1) 11 year old was raped.

Who was the sinner? The rapist.

(2) 11 year has an abortion.

Who was the sinner? The person (probably the doctor) who "murdered" the baby.

(3) Someone dies from complication during birth.

Who was the sinner? No one! Blame God if you wish, but it was her (and the kids') time.

There would only be four morally acceptable outcomes: (a) The 11 year old and the baby die naturally, or (b) the 11 year survives, and the baby dies naturally, (c) the 11 year old dies naturally, and the baby survives, or (d) both the 11 year old survives and the baby survives.




[edit on 31-8-2006 by radardog]

Originally posted by ProveIt
Catholics are sick, they are not christians. They pretend to be on GOd's side, when in fact they ignore all of what is said in the bible. THe girl who underwent abortion should not have been excommunicated as the catholics did, but according to the bible, embraced and loved all the same.

If you are indeed Christian why then are you even now going against the Bible which you purport to follow. Let me see oh yes, I believe it says something to the effect of judge not lest you be judged. And by the way ProveIt she wasn't excommunicated please read the entire article. Frankly as a Catholic I find your judgemental behavior and ignorance quite sad yours and every other Catholic basher on this thread. I will go to Mass and pray for all of your that your minds be opened to the truth that all people should be able to believe as they wish without being called names and insulted by those with closed minds. God Bless and have a great life.

This entire thread disgusts me.

Everything is wrong.

The origonal contex of the artice has been entirely missed by most. And now its not even about the child. Thats a catylist for people to begin their "crusades" against or for the Catholic Church.

THe cardinal has no power what so ever to excommunicate the people involved. He is saying that the Church has a no tolerance policy to abortion.

The Catholic Church is a Church of men. It is not God. IF you have arguments against the church its arguments against men not God. Also the girl, as already pointed out, had an under devloped body and would have most likely miscarraged. An abortion did nothing but potentially harm the girls ability to ever have children and dammage her more so greatly.

And my fellow christians, stop beign fools. You know and I know that if any man can find it in himself to forgive another man then surely God can. And you should know that in the eyes of God this is already resolved. Dont try to spread your faith in this manner of idealogical beliefs. The roman catholic churhc took power in early rome (400 -500ad) by combating poverty, helping the sick, the poor, the eldery, the pregnant, the neglected, and rasing the socail welfare. THere was a time when the church had more money that rome itself because it almost destroyed poverty and people endowed it. Thats how the church won hearts. Through charity, kindness, love, and compassion.

SHould the girl have had an abortion? I cant say. In the part of catholic teaching that people never get to it clearly states. ( i bet you even know the begining philosophy/dogma) That a sin is not clearly defined. Under certain circumstances certian things may or may not be a sin. you have to look at the intent and the intlect of the person. It was this philosphy that has been illustrated in teh Catholic Church's stance of a
Just war


The reason we have these problems in the world to begin with is poverty and coruption and you of all people on ATS should know that. The fact that people are not able to matain a status of living, health, or welbeing is a major contrubitor to crime and the welfare of the worlds population.

If you want to see attrocities like this stop then do not complain about it and argue who was right and who was wrong. DO not try to shove ideas and belifes down peoples throats. Help to rasie the status of living int he world and combat socail injustice by fullfiling your duty towards mankind and if your a christian the real life that christ calls you to. that life being a full and total sacrifice for him in order to help your fellow man. ST paul teaches us that Christ is in each and everyo one of our hearts. and the best way to see him is to help the lowly and thoes in need. Christ didnt come to help the rich, they didnt need it, he came to help the poor.

Society is only as strong as its weakest link.

Mizar the real catholic voice.

It is true that it is up to the family to decide either from a religiously moral perspective or leave the church and decide from their own perspective.

If they are willing to put their child's health and the rest of it's life at risk to follow the church then that's up to them.

But the thought of an 11 year old carrying/delivering a baby and the way the baby will turn out aren't nice thoughts in my mind...

Well said,Mizar. I was raised Catholic but stopped attending church as an adult. I stopped at first because of pure laziness. Over last 15 years, I became a more spiritual person who fiinds all organized religions quite flawed because what it really boils down to is individual interpretation. There are great many Christian Totalarianists who are every bit as fanatically rabid as any any Islamic Jihadists. I find most Evangelical Christians far more dangerous a threat to the survival of the US and the Constitution than any Arab terrorists. We've had basically 3 serious attacks in 15 carried out in our country by Muslim but how many reproductive service workers live in abject fear from all the attacks on clinics from mostly fanatical Christians. I've found that most women who've chose to have an abortion did so out of fear of prejudice from our Christian brethren. Their children are labeled bastards and they are denegrated as fools or whores. The anti-abortion fanatics are quick to condemn abortion but do very little to make human society a more inviting place to bring an unplanned or unwanted child into the world.