Israel the biggest threat to World Peace - E.U.

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi

I'm honestly surprised only 59% of europeans see Israel as a threat to world peace, given the record list of materially breached UN resolutions, unprovoked attacks on neighbours, slaughtering of palestinian civilians, racist marriage laws, racist land ownership laws, it's WMD arsenal, it's extremist current leadership, and it's perpetual annexion of foreign land.

unprovoked attacks on neigbours, read your history. slaughtering of palestinian civilians, how about those palestinian suicide bombers?
WMD arsenal, so none of the arabic lands ( iran, syria for example) arent suspected of having them too?

Swordmaster: "Im not aware of any biological weapons the isrealis might have, so please enlighten me?"

Gladly. There was the 1993 report by the US Office of Technology Assessment for
Congress states that Israel has "undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities" and is "generally reported as having an undeclared offensive biological warfare programme". Then there's the Sussex-Harvard Information Bank on Chemical and Biological Warfare Armament reporting that Israel allegedly used poison gas in the 1960s and in the early 1980s, chemical warfare against Egyptian forces in 1948, and against Palestinians in 1969 and during the first Intifada. The Sunday Times reported in 1998 that Israel's F-16s had been equipped to carry chemical and biological weapons manufactured at Nes Ziona, and that crews were trained to fit an active chemical or biological weapon
within minutes of receiving a command.

Or read this article:

www.ihr.org...

"Israel is working on an "ethnically targeted" biological weapon that would kill or harm Arabs but not Jews, according to Israeli military and western intelligence sources cited in a front-page report in the London Sunday Times, November 15, 1998 ("Israel Planning 'Ethnic' Bomb as Saddam Caves In," by Uzi Mahnaimi and Marie Colvin).

In developing this "ethno-bomb," the British paper went on, Israeli scientists are trying to exploit medical advances by identifying distinctive genes carried by some Arabs, and then create a genetically modified bacterium or virus. The goal is to use the ability of viruses and certain bacteria to alter the DNA inside the host's living cells. The scientists are trying to engineer deadly microorganisms that attack only those bearing the distinctive genes.

The secret Israel program is based at the Institute for Biological Research in Nes Tsiona, a small town southeast of Tel Aviv, the main research facility for Israel's clandestine arsenal of chemical and biological weapons.

A scientist there said the task is very complicated because both Arabs and Jews are of Semitic origin. But he added: "They have, however, succeeded in pinpointing a particular characteristic in the genetic profile of certain Arab communities, particularly the Iraqi people." Diseases could be spread by spraying organisms into the air or putting them in water supplies."

you wrote: "And the attacks on surrounding nations, phoo wie, how about those 4 wars the arabic nations (TOGETHER) launched on israel? but i guess those dont count do they?

Which 4 wars did Israel's Arab neighbors TOGETHER launch on Israel that Israel didn't start? Please explain.

"WMD arsenal, so none of the arabic lands ( iran, syria for example) arent suspected of having them too?"

Actually, no. Israel bombed an Iraqi nuclear plant a while ago because they were afraid Saddam might use it for nukes. None of Israel's neighbors have any nukes, and estimates of Israel's nuclear weapons are as high as 400 warheads.

Strangely enough, they won't allow UN inspectors in, despite having active WMDs and biological and chemical weapons....

I'm thinking they could do with a regime change.

jakomo



[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Jakomo]

Since I have seen mention of these ethnic weapons before, I would like to ask that someone get a Scientific collaboration that this is possible. For some reason it reminds me of the old rumors about sports drinks that would make black people sterile, but not white people etc. Of course those rumors were proven false as primarily it doesn't seem feasible to make something that is poison to a group of men and harmless to another group of men.
To say that it is possible for a chemical to kill one ethnic group and not another is an odd thing, i would think. Are there such significant differences there? As mentioned above, both being of semitic background would make this very hard. I'm not saying it's not true, or not possible, I'm just wondering if a real study on such a thing has been done.

[Edited on 11-5-2003 by Djarums]

These 4 Jakomo:
The Arab nations initiated four wars against Israel:
- 1948 War of Independence
- 1956 Sinai War
- 1967 Six Day War
- 1973 Yom Kippur War


Israel having nukes has caused me nor many others any lack of sleep! Neither have I lost sleep over France, Russia, the UK, or the US, to name a few.....
I mean...whats the issue? The Arab's don't have one yet bothering you? That Palestine doesn't have one yet bother you? If it isn't one thing, its another thing with you and Israel........like cry me a freakin' river will ya.......wtf? Like Israel has any 'dreams of grandeur' and plan on taking over the Arab world or something....


And lastly......concerning your assertions of Israel actually having a "ethno-bomb".....try this:

"Debunking the "ethno-bomb"
Link:
www.salon.com...

How about provide some 'hard facts' and not biased conjecture of: "reportedly...such and such"........



regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Jakomo
Which 4 wars did Israel's Arab neighbors TOGETHER launch on Israel that Israel didn't start? Please explain.

well first, the israelis declaration of independance came on 14.05.1948. Right after that the Egyptian airplanes attacked Israel. With Egypt the following countries attacked Israel: syria, Lebanon,transjordania, saudi-arabia and jemen?
How did israel "cause" this attack?
The nation was started with UN aproval. it was approved on the 29 of the mmonth right before christmast, which i dont remember, in 1947. So please, how did israel cause this attack? they had a permission to start it

Second.
Year 1956, the crisis in Suez. The Egyptin Navy started to surround the harbour of Eilat. Blocking intentionally Israels access to the bay of Akaba -- > Red Sea --> Indian Ocean.
To regain this area, which was intentinally taken from them, the israelis and were forced to attack egypt, then france and england joined the war on israelis side cause. Again, how did israel cause this?

third.
The six day war, in 1967.
during the spring of 1967 both syria and egypt had started a huge propaganda campaign agaisnt israel. Syria had eve shot hunndreds of rockets into israelis Kibbuts's, amd bombed Galilean civilians from the hills of golan. Later the Egyptian Dictator Nasser sent 250 000 men to Sinai and told his navy to again surround the harbours in Eilat. LAter in Jordania, Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi-Arabia and algeria joined against israel.
again, how did israel start this?

fourth. jom kippur was, 1973.

Egypth, Syria and jordania attacked with twice the power of israel.

Oh, while your at posting those "reportedly has" and "reported to have" articles...how provide one that states or mentions that Israel would use a nuke, without provocation, on the Arab world or any Arab nation........

I mentioned this before and will do so again......
Iran is working on acquiring a nuke. Here's what one nation of the Arab world said pertaining to nukes and Israel:
"Former Iranian President Rafsanjani on Using a Nuclear Bomb Against Israel"
Link:
memri.org...

Excerpt:
"Nuclear Weapons Can Solve the Israel Problem Rafsanjani said that Muslims must surround colonialism and force them [the colonialists] to see whether Israel is beneficial to them or not. If one day, he said, the world of Islam comes to possess the weapons currently in Israel's possession [meaning nuclear weapons] - on that day this method of global arrogance would come to a dead end. This, he said, is because the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground, whereas it will only damage the world of Islam."


Despite the source of this article..........it is easily cross-referenced to other news sources......


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Seekerof]

To Djarums,

nobody can expect peace while illegally occupying foreign territory, forcing the millions of deported palestinian victims to live in camps, destroying their schools and houses, and denying them the right to return to their land and property.

Even the US, which is currently not deporting too many iraqis are facing ardent resistance from the occupied people, yet they are currently not resorting to civilian executions, are not keeping the iraqis in camps, and are currently not destroying iraqi houses and schools.

Seekerof,

where did you get the idea Iran is developing a nuclear weapon ? From the grotesque Ariel Sharon ? Because there isnt anyone else claiming that since Iran just signed the IAEA protocol, against immense opposition in their own country.



[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
nobody can expect peace while illegally occupying foreign territory, forcing the millions of deported palestinian victims to live in camps, destroying their schools and houses, and denying them the right to return to their land and property.
[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

omg, first of all. prove me that the land belongs to the palestinians. please.
and the reason the palestinians had to leave israel in the first place was because all the other arab nations attacked israel.

Quoted:
"while illegally occupying foreign territory"


Care to elaborate on "occupying" or "occupied" is?
Lets see if we can hear something that hasn't been said before for this age-old comeback........


regards
seekerof

Seeker: LOL You wrote: "How about provide some 'hard facts' and not biased conjecture of: "reportedly...such and such"........ "

That's TOO MUCH.. You tell me to provide HARD FACTS and the VERY ARTICLE YOU REFERENCE says:

"American biological warfare experts are reacting skeptically to a report that Israel is working on a biological weapon that could infect and kill Arabs but not Jews. ...

Likewise, Dr. Daphne Kamely, a leading microbiologist who has worked on environmental safety issues for the Defense Department, as well as the National Institutes for Health and the Environmental Protection Agency, said, "That sounds too far-fetched to me."

One hurdle in assessing the report is that Israel's chemical and biological weapons program is shrouded in secrecy. The program is said to be based at the biological institute in Nes Tziyona, the main research facility for Israel's clandestine arsenal of chemical and biological weapons. "

Haha, nice hard facts, Seeker. "Sounds far-fetched", "it's a stretch" and the kicker, "israel's chemical and biological weapons progam is shrouded in secrecy". Not exactly concrete refutations, are they? Far from it.

- 1948 War of Independence
- 1956 Sinai War
- 1967 Six Day War
- 1973 Yom Kippur War

I was under the impression Israel fired the first shots in all these wars. Especially 1967 and 1973. I also didn't realize 100% of the blame lay with the Arabs and that Israel was a quiet little lamb in all the situations, with the evil Arabs trying to wipe them out.

But I am sure you will find me a .il or IDF site that says something good.

jakomo

ps. As to the Occupation being ILLEGAL, maybe it was legal 30 years ago, but the Occupation of a nation for 3 decades with no end in sight is illegal. And immoral.

[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Jakomo]

[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Jakomo]

jakomo, sometime ago i didnt know # about this whole conflict and it pissed me off, so i walked to the nearest library and borrowed a book on the subject. i dont mean to sound rude. but i suggest you do the same and stop looking for biased info from the net.

1948 and 56, the Arabs did go off half cocked without real provocation and attacked Israel.

The other two wars, the Arabs provoked the first shot, but israel did indeed take it. Israel tried to provoke the US with the USS liberty incident, but thankfully, it failed, otherwise Cairo would have been a huge glass stain. 1973? Yom Kippur? who can say?

The Israelies have become Nazis ....

Thank you for that comment. It contributed very much and really shows your regard towards the members participating in this thread who gave enough of a # about themselves to think before they posted.

Hey Jakomo....you can sit behind that computer screen and snivel and laugh all you like....makes no means to me nor sense! Why? You bring nothing to this table of BS you present,but continued BS!

You STATE an assertion and provide NO!!! proof in it being no more than CONJECTURE....simply Jakomo.....snivel on, but your case for an Israeli "ethno-bomb" is founded on nothing factual...only snipits of "Israel gathered from South African Apartheid sources, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.......
In a legal court of law Jakomo!, for which I have no freakin' clue how the court system works in el'Canoda, specifically in Montreal.......you are presenting "hear-say", nothing of fact....and definitely nothing to convict!!
Try again laughing boy


Jakomo said (concerning the 4 Arab initiated wars against Israel):
"I was under the impression Israel fired the first shots in all these wars"

I'm seriously under the impression that you need to read some freakin' history books instead of living on "propaganda BS sites"! They have no decent and well-informed libraries where you live?


Jakomo said:
"ps. As to the Occupation being ILLEGAL, maybe it was legal 30 years ago, but the Occupation of a nation for 3 decades with no end in sight is illegal. And immoral."

You talking out your ass and your sense of "morality" and ethics is twisted and #ed up.....about as much as your "factual" backings for a great many of your assertions made against Israel!
"Milk does the body good"....in your case, a few history books would do your mind good..

Snival and laugh on.....
Despite anything you say, be assurd, I plan to make every effort to counter!
You will not continue to go unabated in your quest to prove that Israel is wrong in all this while continuing to OBVIOUSLY ignore......the pretext and foundations of the PLO/PA/Hamas Charter of genocide and destruction....I don't give a rats-azz how many times Israel is condemned by the BIASED UN. They will continue to protect and defend themselves!! There will be no PEACE in the Middle East TILL everyone gets a new mindset and the finger-pointing stops...period!! Israel is NOT ALL the fault of the "peace problem"...Be assurd of that! Wake the # up......you can skew it that way......
You just keep on ignoring the obvious..... Your blindness only affects you...not me, nor anyone else that chooses to see through your BS.


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 5-11-2003 by Seekerof]

Seeker: Okay, here goes. I was responding to sword's question "Im not aware of any biological weapons the isrealis might have, so please enlighten me?"

I referenced the ihr site because it dealt with some of Israel's bio-weapon capabilities. The apparent ethno-bomb is one tiny aspect. It seems a little far-fetched to me too, but the ihr article made a lot of other points about Israel's offensive bio capabilities, but I don't think you read the entire article.

So here's a great article on Israel's biological weapons.

www.indexonline.org...


"However, the 1993 report by the Office of Technology Assessment for the US Congress states that Israel has 'undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities' and is 'generally reported as having an undeclared offensive biological warfare programme'.

Anthony Cordesman of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies states that Israel has conducted extensive research into gas warfare and is ready to produce biological weapons.

According to an exhaustive study by Karel Knip, a Dutch journalist, the IIBR's work has included the synthesis of nerve gases such as tabun, sarin and VX.

The October 1992 crash an of El Al cargo plane in Amsterdam that caused at least 47 deaths and caused hundreds of immediate and subsequent mysterious illnesses led to the disclosure in 1998 that flight LY1862 was carrying chemicals including 50 gallons of dimethyl methylphosphonate (DMMP) - enough to produce 594 pounds of sarin. The DMMP was supplied by Solkatronic Chemicals Inc of Morrisville, Pennsylvania, and was destined for the IIBR.

Avner Cohen has catalogued reported uses of biological weapons by Jewish forces during the 1948 war in Palestine. The Israeli historian Uri Milstein alleged that 'in many conquered Arab villages, the water supply was poisoned to prevent the inhabitants from coming back.' Milstein states that one of the largest of such covert operations caused the typhoid outbreak in Acre in May 1948.

The Palestinian Arab Higher Committee reported in July 1948 that there was some evidence that Jewish forces were responsible for a cholera outbreak in Egypt in November 1947 and in Syrian villages near the Palestinian-Syrian border in February 1948.

In May 1948, the Egyptian ministry of defence stated that four 'zionists' had been captured while trying to contaminate artesian wells in Gaza with 'a liquid which was discovered to contain germs of dysentery and typhoid'.

In 1954, it was widely reported that defence minister Pinchas Lavon had proposed using BW for special operations. Cohen says: 'Israel has presumably employed biological or toxin weapons for special operations.'

In 1955, Prime Minister Ben Gurion ordered the weaponisation and stockpiling of chemical weapons in case of a war with Egypt. Former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky claims that lethal tests have been performed on Arab prisoners at the IIBR..."

These are hardly defensive weapons, and my point was that Israel has many weapons of mass destruction. Far more than any of their neighbors, and it's enough to make anyone nervous.


jakomo

Stopping the flame war some people seem to be having.

Is Israel the biggest threat to world peace...

Well I am from the EU and I am sorry to say I do actually agree with the statement....

However I don't think it is Israel as a nation which is the problem, but a select few within in the govermement (and a select few people within Arab goverments) that is the problem. I think the majority of Israelies and Arabs are good people, at the end of the day they are religous people and a fair part of their religions are based on love. Which is nice.

But there are always few on both sides who just seem to want trouble. At the moment people are some blaming (Ok some Europeans are Blaming) Israel but give it a year (if we have that long), and the same people will be blaming the Arabs.

So to sum up what I am trying to say is that I don't think the people of Israel are the biggest threat to world peace. But I do think that geographical area and some people within that area are the biggest threat.

Just my 2 Euros

LOL

Why the HELL would Europeans give a rats a$$ about a tiny, barely inhabitable state not even located on their continent? Its not like Israel is a major trading partner with any European nation, nor does Israel lay claim to any European land or territories. The one major reason I could come with why Europe would care about Israel would possible all the ex-Europeans who have emigrated over the years to Israel...ooops...sorry, forgot those were the people th Europeans have been trying to EXTERMINATE for the past 400 years, so I guess they don't really care about Jews anyways...

Europeans have perfected the art of genocide and religious bigotry, and the Jews have historically been the medium on which the Europeans apply their hatred. And now with the dramatic increase of Muslims immigrants setting up shop in Old Europe, the coals of the old hatred are being stoked.

"Waiting to cut out the deadwood
Waiting to clean up the city
Waiting to follow the worms
Waiting to put on a black shirt
Waiting to weed out the weaklings
Waiting to smash in their windows
And kick in their doors
Waiting for the final solution
To strengthen the strain
Waiting to follow the worms
Waiting to turn on the showers and fire the ovens
Waiting for the queers and the coons
And the reds and the Jews"

Israel is a product of European hatred, and they know it, which is why they mostly despise Israel. I say screw the Europeans, if they don't like it then maybe they should have tried leaving the Jews alone.

Europeans shouldn't wonder why the US stands up for Israel - the founders of our 2 countries were both trying to escape the death, tyranny and injustice of Olde, decaying, corrupt, imperial, hating Europe. It took us 2 wars to finally shed ourselves or European control and interference, and since then we have been doing nicely. I suspect Israel will do the same.

Eventually, I guess the Europeans will have no one left to hate..except each other, and then maybe we will see the old nationalism rise up again. But to think that Europeans regard Israel as the biggest threat to world peace is laughable, especially coming from the source of most of the world's conflicts for the past 1'000 years.

Excuse me but you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes America is so god damm perfect aren't you.

And what is the point in quoting a song from 'The wall' without any point of reference.

Yes there are bigots and racists in Europe, but there are bigots etc everywhere in the world.

If you are talking about relgious bigotry that has gone on in History, well then lets talk about the Native American or the South in the 60's

Every country has ghosts in their closet.

I am sorry for what happened to the Jews in WWII, but it also happend to Russians, Gyspys and other ethnic minorties.

If it ever started to happen again I would be first in line to join up to fight against it.

I lost two Great Uncles fighting against the Nazis.

You ain't a european, you don't know how we think.

I would write more but I have steam coming out of my #ing ears at the moment

[Edited on 6-11-2003 by trinityschild]

Originally posted by Pyros
...But to think that Europeans regard Israel as the biggest threat to world peace is laughable, especially coming from the source of most of the world's conflicts for the past 1'000 years...

Come back and see us when the US is as old as Europe is now, then we'll see who's been responsible for starting the majority of conflicts.