Iran Continues Defiant Posturing

Anyways, back to the topic...

Iran defiant posture... or is this going to turn into another "let's bash the U.S. and the U.S. government" thread?...

Muabbid I see what or nation is doing in our names that is hurting us as a nation you do not see that.

Yes US in Iraq is part of the problems in the middle east You can never agree with that.

So if speaking the truth of what our leaders are doing to us and our nation is seen as to be supporting terrorism and been a fascist like Rumsfeld, is now calling the critics of the present administration and attacking my nations and their corrupt politicians, guess what I do not kiss up to no politician butt and I careless anybody opinion of me.

That is my right to speak out the errors of the leaders of our nation.

See I was never born under a dictatorship regime and I have no intention to keep my mouth shut.

You can make any coments you want and tag me anything you want but the truth can never be cover with just putting your hand over you eyes.




[edit on 31-8-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Anyways, back to the topic...

Iran defiant posture... or is this going to turn into another "let's bash the U.S. and the U.S. government" thread?...

Yeah is all about bashing the US in your eyes I guess the debate is over.

Originally posted by marg6043

Yeah is all about bashing the US in your eyes I guess the debate is over.

Are you not trying to do this?....you were the one to bring up the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the U.S was attacked...

You are the one blaming the United States in this thread and claiming "the U.S. is at fault for what happens in the Middle East"... you have said these things and more....so yes, you are turning this into another "let's bash and blame not only the United States government, but the entire U.S. because more people decided to vote for president Bush"...

Let's get back on topic alright?... If you have anything that refutes what every newspaper, including newspapers from the Middle East, are saying about the comments of the Iranian president, then post it.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Muaddib

I can only imagine you stomping your feet whenever you tried to prove your point.

Now is bording in temper tantrums.

Have a good night.

I made my point already.

Goodbye Marg, as always you can't prove your point with facts... in the meanwhile.

Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map


Wednesday 26 October 2005, 19:03 Makka Time, 16:03 GMT

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.


"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, even though such slogans are still regularly used at government
rallies.

english.aljazeera.net...

2 - 9 November 2005
Issue No. 767
Region

When he said Israel should be "wiped off the map", it is not clear that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was aware of the fallout the statement would generate. The president's words have caused a storm of criticism and made headlines worldwide.
.............
Reformists, however, are not happy. Former president Mohamed Khatami criticised Ahmadinejad, saying, "those words have created hundreds of political and economic problems for us in the world," the Iranian news agency (IRNA) said. According to some reports, senior officials in the reformist camp have hinted that Ahmadinejad may have not been fully aware of the impact of his speech, which he addressed to a domestic audience of conservative Iranian students at a routine conference in Tehran ahead of the pro-Palestinian rally of Jerusalem Day, which always takes place on the last Friday of Ramadan. Some have begun to wonder whether Ahmadinejad has the political wisdom or acumen to lead Iran at such a crucial juncture.

Ahmadinejad himself refused to back down. He took part in Friday's rally and cheered by hundreds of thousands of supporters, insisted on his comments saying, "my words were the Iranian nation's words." He has also reportedly recalled the Iranian ambassador to Moscow as a result of his statements downplaying Ahmadinejad's comments.

While it is not uncommon for senior Iranian officials to criticise Israel, Ahmadinejad's comments, coming at a time of international suspicion regarding Iranian intentions, are likely to confirm fears that the recently elected president is reverting to a hard-line foreign policy. Over the preceding eight years of President Khatami's moderate style of government, reformists adopted a successful policy of reconciliation with both the West and the Arab world. During Khatami's era, Iranian officials stated more than once that they would accept what the Palestinians would agree to; a stance regarded at the time as a softening of Iran's position, leaving the path open for a two-state solution.

Ahmadinejad's defiant comments seem anything but pragmatic, leaving analysts with raised eyebrows as to their ultimate meaning. The timing of the comments is also significant, coming weeks before a crucial meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), from which Iran may be referred to the Security Council for possible sanctions. Adding fuel to fire, Ahmadinejad also said Sunday that, "Iran will not return to a full freeze of its disputed nuclear fuel activities," and that "Western demands for such confidence-building measures are unacceptable."

According to Iranian analyst Mohamed Sadeq Al-Husseini, Ahmadinejad's comments might well represent as a clear and bold message that Iran, unlike Syria, has decided that "attack is the best policy of defence." The message, according to Al-Husseini is that "Iran will not give up its legitimate right regarding peaceful nuclear activities." Al-Husseini argues that the message is not only directed at the US, "which is trying hard to curtail Iranian diplomacy [in its endeavour to reach a peaceful solution]," but also European negotiators, "which Tehran believes have procrastinated [in nuclear negotiations] and thus deserved to be blamed."

For several years the US, now joined by Europe, has raised doubts about Iran's nuclear programme; that it might be a façade to develop secret nuclear weapons. Iran has always rejected the charge, contending that as party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) it has taken its international obligations seriously. Nonetheless, in September, the United Nations' nuclear watchdog, the IAEA, declared Iran in non- compliance with the NPT, giving Iran until its next meeting at the end of November to show it was prepared to co- operate fully. Failure to convince the IAEA of progress could lead to the referral of the issue to the Security Council where a range of options, including sanctions and ultimately the use of force, would be considered.

Fears are that even if Iran is sincere about the peaceful nature of its nuclear programme, the president's rhetoric gives Iran's foes a free hand and pretext to strike the Islamic Republic's nuclear facilities. His comments also offer an opportunity to reinforce the argument that Iran is a threat to world peace. After summoning Iran's ambassador to Moscow to explain Ahmadinejad's comments, Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov made note that such inflammatory sentiments but boosted the arguments of those -- like Britain and the US -- who want the issue of Iran's nuclear programme to be taken up by the Security Council.

While prospect of Iran being referred to the Security Council faces staunch opposition from some countries, including Russia, China, South Africa and Brazil, fiery comments by Iran's president do little to comfort Iran's supporters. Some, including Venezuela, distanced themselves from Ahmadinejad this week. Meanwhile, some analysts believe that the Iranian president might have purposely timed the comments as part of Iran's strategy ahead of the IAEA meeting, and while the US is embroiled in Iraq, and with the Europeans divided over what to do next.
....................

weekly.ahram.org.eg...

That was back in november 2005, now less countries don't want to see Iran taken to the security council, and those countries are Venezuela, Cuba and Syria.... which is a far cry from the claims of some people that "this is propaganda by the U.S.", or that "only the United States wants this"....

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]

From: AnAbsoluteCreation:

Did you know if you lived in most other countries in the world, Bush and Co. is compared to the likes of Saddamm and even Hitler.

REPLY: And, considering that 85% of the member countries of the UN are tyrants, thugs and dictators, we shouldn't care a whit what they think. Britain is the only true major ally we have, anyways.

I for one have not been any safer for the 250 million dollars a day that is being spent on fruitless wars

REPLY: I guess you don't live anywhere near the Brooklyn Bridge, the attack on which was stopped by that awful clandestine cell phone surveilance.

I for one would like to see New Orleans be rebuilt faster.

REPLY: Quick ....... you should call Ray Nagin!!!

The highways systems could use an overhaul. Our education system is failing under Bush's "no child left behind" act. And then we can't forget about all the needy people abroad that need help.

REPLY: The highways are the responsibility of the individual states; the education system has been falling apart for the past 35 years, and the needy pe3ople abroad need individual liberty and freedom..... you know ..... the same thing Bush is trying to give those in Iraq and Afghanistan.

People that still believe what our administration and Media distorts about the original truth

REPLY: I can understand the media does, but what are you pointing to about the administration?

From Jamuhn:

I'm puzzled by all the talk about taking out Iran, etc. etc. Did they attack anyone?

REPLY: Yes.... Hezbubble killed three Isreali soldiers (digging a tunnel into Isreali land) and kidnapped two others.

....but the US should be smart enough to pursue economic sanctions, etc. before bombing another country PRE-EMPTIVELY.

REPLY: Like those sanctions actually work??? And, so-called pre-emptive strikes were done as far back as the 1940's.

From marg6043:

Is ok to bomb and kill people because their leaders, have thoughts, ideas and dreams of protecting their countries from what they believe could be a danger to their sovereignty.

REPLY: It has more to do with the leaders preventing their people from having any sort of freedom; keeping them in the 19th century, and those leaders keeping their power. Soverign nations come from the freedom of the people, not from despotic rule.

From kojac:

And before anyone starts with the "Iran is a terrorist nation" speil, let's not go delve into Israels' track record shall we...?

REPLY: You mean when Isreal won all four wars which were started by Palestine, yet Isreal is the one who is hailed as "occupying" Palestinian lands??? Isreal has done nothing but defend itself for the past 40 years.

The Israeli's have NEVER allowed ANYONE from the IAEA to visit their Nucleur plants.

REPLY: I believe the topic is Iran!

Iran which is looking to persue it's LEGAL rights to obtain Nucleur power.

REPLY: A "legal" right???

From pstiffy:

Its been proven countless times, the quote was PURE propaganda. He called for a regime change in Israel to remove the Zionists..not the destruction of the people.

REPLY: And you have obviously not seen the maps of the region that Palestine and Iran uses, and has in it's schools.... you know ..... the one without Isreal on it? Iran is doing everything it can to bring about chaos and war, because it's leader believes it will bring about the return of the 12th Imam. More research, please.

From Marg6043:

Is all about oil wars to benefit future energy control on a region that holds the biggest reserves right now.

REPLY: Actually, Colorado has the largest known reserves, to the tune of three TRILLION barrels of shale oil.

The War on terror and How evil Iran wants to wipe out Israel is the most dangerous propaganda been wagged agains the American people intelligence.

REPLY: The main issue in Iran is the end of all Jews in Isreal, then the rest of the western world. I headr a recent quote where Iran's leader said he'd gladly give up half of his people to rid Isreal of the Jews; And, yes..... I'll look for a link.

We owe other nations a respect for their chosen form of government as we expect our own form to be respected, and we have no right to interfere in another people's choice of government or internal policy any more than they have to interfere in ours.

REPLY: Whoever wrote that, he/she obviously didn't live under the rule of Hitler or Stalin.

From Logansrun:

Without a shred of evidence, people are calling for the bombing of yet another country. This seems to be happening all over again as it was in Iraq - except they had proof that time - fabricated proof!!

REPLY: If you're trying to bring WMD's into the picture, give it up or do more research. WMD's were the LAST of about ten reasons to go into Iraq.

Pyros: Nice return quotes from The Founders on page two!!!

From Logansrun:

can you please provide a link to the statement of Iran thretening to destroy an entire people?

REPLY:

Ahmadinejad sparked widespread international condemnation in October when he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

[link] www.cnn.com...

At a news conference in Paris yesterday, a spokesman for the National Council of Resistance of Iran, an exiled opposition group, said a secret uranium enrichment site had been built just north of Tehran. They also claim Iran has warhead blueprints and enriched uranium from A.Q. Khan, the scientist who created Pakistan's atomic bomb.

IRANIAN SPOKESPERSON: Our sources about this facility and the Iranian regime activities in the defense ministry and... this intelligence, this information is 100 percent correct.

[link] www.pbs.org...

From Marg6043

Americas foreign policies are very well know historically.

REPLY: Yep..... and most all of Europe and Iraq ae glad for it. Thanks for pointing that out to us.

After the fiasco in Iraq, because you know what my friend Its a fiasco.

REPLY: Odd.... how most people in Iraq don't think that at all. I've talkes to hundreds of them face to face; You???

Muaddib: Nice posts on page three..... To the point and factual....

From LogansRun:

You just keep spewing your hate, and we will keep speaking the truth.

REPLY: You mean, your version of "the truth".... from behind the looking glass.

Originally posted by marg6043
Muaddib

I can only imagine you stomping your feet whenever you tried to prove your point.

Now is bording in temper tantrums.

Have a good night.

I made my point already.

REPLY: If you've made a "point" at all, it was very dull, not well formed, and showed no respect for the truth of what America has done for the world.
Pity!

Originally posted by marg6043
...Iran is not going to nuke anybody it's all propaganda, plain and simple.

You believe what you want, that is your choice.

I believe that after reading Amhadinejad's blog and reading his letters to other statesman. I think he wants to be allowed like all the other big countries to research and use nuclear energy, that he his upset about the creation of Israel and the US related Iraq wars.
Regarding Pearl Harbor and 911 type scenarios and keeping in mind that this is a proxy war, it would be conceivable that a side would nuke one of it's own for a reason or another.

Is it fair to say that Amhad and his speechwriters promote peace more than Bush ans his? I think so. My argument is that I always hear Bush claim "We are going to War, We need this war".

Originally posted by Muaddib
Despite you and some others "claiming" because you are the only ones "claiming" it is all propaganda, the facts show the contrary.

lol. ATS - Come get your daily plate of facts and propaganda!

Originally posted by Muaddib
Despite what you want to believe, there is a goal among the Iranian regime on wanting to destroy Israel.....

Our world is nasty.

Today they threaten each other with Nuclear Arms..
Now tell me.. What will obviously be next....?

After seing what Israel did to the Lebanese people, I think I can see why countries in the region might be upset. There are various reports on how much money and support the USA hands over to the State of Israel. I will also suggest that the average american in the red states does not know about why they do this. Surely they care about how the country uses taxes. Now we know about our 51st state?

To follow this thread I feel we must further understand how Israel was conceived in the early 1900's and leading up to WW2. Then, right then, they said: Due to the holocaust, Jews will have their own land here, don't worry we'll move the peasants and reprint the deeds. The story seems very confusing, can someone summerize the whole history of what led to this? Including everything?

Anyways this is a very interesting thread but I think the title was not really ideal. Perhaps something, less exhaustive but along the lines of "Iran, Russia, China, still not agreeing to the proposed UN proposition to end uranium work in Iran".

I feel "continues defiant posturing" asserts the PM in a negative connotation that the is "perpetually menacing". The same could be said of Bush when he refers to all kinds of possible "sanctions", that "war is a possibility with Iran" etc.. Alas, sometimes this world does not seem fair.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Irrespective of Global opinion that is rising in opposition to Iran's nuclear aspirations, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad announces on Saturday...

Hmm.. "Irrespective of Global opinion": That's kindof a weirdly put assumption. Can someone source this? Because last time I read something like this, it was referring to the proposal at the UN to have a cease-fire in Lebanon. In which three countries were enough to represent Global Opinion and keep fighting when everyone else wanted the madness to end.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by La Balance]

Originally posted by La Balance

Hmm.. "Irrespective of Global opinion": That's kindof a weirdly put assumption. Can someone source this? Because last time I read something like this, it was referring to the proposal at the UN to have a cease-fire in Lebanon. In which three countries were enough to represent Global Opinion and keep fighting when everyone else wanted the madness to end. I think people are scared of what is foreign to them. It's much easier.

Perhaps you should read the links that have been given.

When some people claim that "it's all the propaganda of the United States and/or Israel and then someone shows links from Middle Eastern countries which are saying the "opposite", and even Former president Mohamed Khatami criticising Ahmadinejad for those words he said, all of this from Middle Eastern sources, proves that this is no "U.S. or/and Israel's agenda...

--edited for error---

[edit on 1-9-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: If you've made a "point" at all, it was very dull, not well formed, and showed no respect for the truth of what America has done for the world.
Pity!

Im telling you folks the republicans have cloned thousands of karl roves. This is evident by how each clone continually accuses others of its own sins. The ATS guru of dull and misinformed has once again demonstrated this tactic by attributing his own faults to an opposing poster. As for respecting the truth. The typical "faux patriot" couldnt find the truth in a mirror if it was tattooed accross his forehead.

The iranians are po'd and indignant that the US is attempting to threaten and intimidate their country while at the same time peddling demagogic fear to americans in order to rationalize military action against an iranian nuclear boogeyman. Nuclear weapons are legitimate deterent to western aggression for the iranians.

How many years have we had "the shah jr" stored in exile to overthrow the democratically elected iranian government? Restoring the iranian monarchy has been the US plan since the overthrow of "the shah" and it continues to be the plan today.
.

Originally posted by df1
..............
The typical "faux patriot" couldnt find the truth in a mirror if it was tattooed accross his forehead.

How interesting, when all you have done is once again given your own opinion without one iota of proof to refute the information given...

Now, are you saying that Former president Mohamed Khatami did not criticize Ahmadinejad for the words he used in a speech he thought was not going to be known in the western world?

The fact that newspapers in the Middle East have documented this criticism from Khatami towards Ahmadinejad proves that truth to you, and some others, doesn't amtter. You are just intent on blaming the U.S. government, and U.S. people, and trying to claim that Ahmadinejad just wants to defend his country... But since when defending one's country is the same as threatening with the destruction of a whole nation?...

Here is another source from the Arab world which refutes your claim and that of some other people around here.

Iran: Khatami criticizes President Ahmadinejad's remark on Israel

Posted: 31-10-2005 , 12:41 GMT


Former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami criticized his successor Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for the latter's recent statement that Israel should be "wiped of the map." Khatami made no direct mention of Ahmadinejad's remarks, but alluded to the comment, saying, "We should not say things that create economic and political problems in the world."


Khatami, a pro-reform cleric who rigorously sought to improve relations between Iran and the outside world throughout his leadership, added that "The worst is to criticize liberalism using fascist values and principles in the name of Islam," according to AFP. Khatami's comments were made at a recent gathering at the Koranic museum in Tehran.

The former president added that, "We are not on an international quest and we are not here to make other governments conform with our position."

Ahmadinejad, considered a hardliner in comparison to his predecessor Khatami, said in a statement this past summer that, "liberal thought justifies and recognizes all abnormalities and deviations."

His recent statement regarding Israel has elicited widespread condemnation, including that of the UN Security Council.

www.albawaba.com...&searchWords=Khatami%20criticized

Originally posted by zappafan1

From pstiffy:

Its been proven countless times, the quote was PURE propaganda. He called for a regime change in Israel to remove the Zionists..not the destruction of the people.

REPLY: And you have obviously not seen the maps of the region that Palestine and Iran uses, and has in it's schools.... you know ..... the one without Isreal on it?

So? And that has to do with what? So you get "destuction of the country" from the fact that some school children color in maps without the name Israel written on it?




[edit on 9/1/2006 by pstiffy]

Muaddib

Nothing that you have posted is new is the same propaganda use by the government you cherish and revere so much to justified another of his very good agendas of making the middle east accessible to his private interest.

Perhaps once in a while is good to step out of the box of you ideologies and see what the world is all about, through you own eyes.

But you can no possible even think of allowing yourself to do that.

You don't even use rationale or common sense on approaching the subject discussed in here.

Because you do not want to and you do not have to.

Now using mental games is what you are good for, I am very disappointed when you brought up the same old book repertoire that the GOP is using to attack critics of the administration.

Guess what when you deal with young and gullible people you may intimidate them.

But and old Cookie like is just amazed me how well implanted is the mentality of one way thinking.

Keep posting and bringing the same old rhetoric is some people around here that pretty much can tell how sad is that state of our nation.

And is also many that need that same rhetoric of propaganda to keep believing that the present administration does not harm

I got enough propaganda already from this thread.

Sometimes beating the point is the only way for people with you set of believes to actually understand what otherwise is unconceivable.



[edit on 1-9-2006 by marg6043]

that you never really answer any real questions there Marg6043.



Your favorite word in this thread is 'propaganda'.

Iran is the leading exporter of TERRORISM.

Dance on the head of a needle as you might... you can't change that fact.

And there is certainly the body count to prove it.

Why do you have so much sympathy for Iran... oh supporter of TERRORISM?

Originally posted by golemina

Why do you have so much sympathy for Iran... oh supporter of TERRORISM?

Do you have anything better to do than using mind tactics that are very childish If I may say.

You haven't bring anything of good importance to this thread but name calling and tagging.

Tell me, I am still waiting for that quote of me supporting terrorism.

Go find it and when you do then we will have something to talk about.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by marg6043]

No need for testiness Marg6043... We are all intellectual associates.

>Tell me, I am still waiting for that quote of me supporting terrorism.

Your response reminds me a lot of those guys those guys whose defense for indefensible acts winds up being something along the lines of I was just doing my job, I didn't know that was what was occurring or just plain I didn't know.

Iran is the leading exporter of TERRORISM.

You (blindly) support Iran.

You are therefore a supporter of TERRORISM.

Simple enough, yes?

Originally posted by golemina

Iran is the leading exporter of TERRORISM.

I gree with you.

You (blindly) support Iran.

I disagree with you, please understand that when people disagree with policies of the government on certain issues and bring the truth about those polices is not by any means supporting the opposing part of the issue. But rather pointing to the fact that is two sides of the issue.

Is in our constitutional rights to do so.

If you can prove that I am blindly supporting Iran then by all means I am asking you to provide a quote.

You are therefore a supporter of TERRORISM.

That one is an intimidation tactic and I am not taken by intimidation, actually you are just making you own opinion of me because you disagree with my point of view.

That is an issue that if you can no prove it, then I will ask you very politely to stop.

Simple enough, yes?

No, is no as simple as you think, intimidation is not allow in the boards.

But I will imagine that you are just trying to prove a point, your point but be careful how you do it.



[edit on 1-9-2006 by marg6043]

[edit on 1-9-2006 by marg6043]